Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[Kae_Slick]

I don't know if this has already been asked but what I question is how will the raid locks be handled.

For instance, if a 25man is started on day one and on day two 5 of the 25 can not make it due to rl and can not be replaced, how will the transition to 10man work? Will the 20 people have to decide which 10 will be continuing on that raid ID while the other 10 basically get screwed over for the week? If that will be the case why bother doing 25mans at all with that risk if 2-3 10mans would be more viable considering the same gear quality. Unless I totally misread the notes.

[drdead]

Translation: People who do 10m will get MY gear. NOOOOOOOOOO!

Bad translation. Gear is a tool, not the aim. The aim is "kill the boss". A lot of ppl are crying (me 2) 'cuz they love 25m guilds. When it's loud, chaotic, different-country-persons mess in /g, vent, /ra. That's actually that some people need. They dont like to be in small guilds when u need to be very-freaking-awesome players to do hard raids. In 25 ppl it's actually work of structured system that raiders make, not 100% personal skill, but "building-up-together" skill too.

[Daedalon]

Is it just me or are the ppl that used 25 man gear to go 10 heroic - crying the loudest here ?

Rewards should be based on difficulty..

How on earth can you claim that running 10 mans in 25 man gear - getting the same lvl items as those that are doing it on only 10 man is fair rewarding system ?

Seriously guys... 10 mans should not even have been an option for ppl in 25 man raiding gear in the first place !

[Prag]

Is it just me or are the ppl that used 25 man gear to go 10 heroic - crying the loudest here ?

Rewards should be based on difficulty..

How on earth can you claim that running 10 mans in 25 man gear - getting the same lvl items as those that are doing it on only 10 man is fair rewarding system ?

Seriously guys... 10 mans should not even have been an option for ppl in 25 man raiding gear in the first place !

Which guild was it again that said of Lich King 10 (normal): "I don't think it can be done by a non-25-togc guild right now".

Just more reinforcement for what you're saying.

[Rootofalleli]

10 man content has always been easier. Why do you need top tier loot for content that doesn't require it? It makes much more sense to have 10/25 share the same lockout and drop the same items but at a lower ilvl.

Once again, the blue post (did you read it?) said that 10m encounters will be tuned to a higher level. If you project the difference in 10m vs 25m difficulty from WotLK into Cata, you're doing it wrong. Blizzard made IC10 for people in mostly 232 gear with a few 245 pieces, while IC25 was for people in straight 245 gear. In Cata, the two instances would be tested and tuned for people at the same gear level. Further, buffs are going to be spread to more classes. I don't think current 10m content is designed around having Hero/BL, whereas 25m is.

TL;DR: 10m in Cata is supposed to be content that requires top-tier loot.

Bad translation. Gear is a tool, not the aim. The aim is "kill the boss". A lot of ppl are crying (me 2) 'cuz they love 25m guilds. When it's loud, chaotic, different-country-persons mess in /g, vent, /ra. That's actually that some people need. They dont like to be in small guilds when u need to be very-freaking-awesome players to do hard raids. In 25 ppl it's actually work of structured system that raiders make, not 100% personal skill, but "building-up-together" skill too.

I love my 25m guild too. I enjoy the challenges of being the guild leader and raid leader. It's possible that Blizz will mess up on rewards and make 10m the best route. But that's not the stated intention, so we shouldn't panic.

Consider this: what if each 10m boss drops 1 piece of loot and 2 emblems per player, while each 25m boss drops 3 pieces of loot and 3 emblems per player? Wouldn't that give an extra incentive to do 25m? Emblem income would be 50% higher, and there would be 20% more loot per person. I don't have any special knowledge of what numbers we will see (I doubt they are decided), but it's definitely possible to reward 25m raiders without having 2 separate drop lists.

[Matt3s]

reserved for 1337-ness !

wtf@amount of reply/h

also, baibai progressive raiding

[drdead]

it will be more efficient to run 25 if you are able to. You will receive more loot, emblems, and gold.

For crying out loud. No1 needs gold - only lazy one doesnt have 50k+ (and why da hell do u need so much anyway?). Nor about emblems - after about the month u will not need 'em at all - they will just stack up in currency tab like a trash. Same with epix - gearing speed doesnt matter if they will implement gating system.

So.... can u come with advantages one more time plese?

[CaptainArlong]

By requiring players to do extremely long and difficult quest lines like the Shadowmoune, Legendaries should be open to both. If they make it a drop, then 25-man only.

[Kaynot]

I think the main reasons behind these changes are...

Videogames should be your second life... not your only one.

Doing 10 and 25 man - heroic and none heroic + alts.... Burned out or not... Its just not healthy for anyone.
Its sick and Blizzard should not promote such gaming habits. And they are changing it. Thankfully.

fail,as i already mentioned the REAL reason is that Blizzard want to force people to run alts and re-explore Azeroth( yeah they spent a LOT of time and money in it,though),and dont forget that same items in 10 and 25 man instances mean less work for game designer team,or better said less money input in game design.Diablo 3 and SC 2 story episodes have to be designed simultaneously,and i bet no one will hire extra designers for this

[Sammonoske]

Is it just me or are the ppl that used 25 man gear to go 10 heroic - crying the loudest here ?

Rewards should be based on difficulty..

How on earth can you claim that running 10 mans in 25 man gear - getting the same lvl items as those that are doing it on only 10 man is fair rewarding system ?

Seriously guys... 10 mans should not even have been an option for ppl in 25 man raiding gear in the first place !

Oh i dunno, seeing as how there are some really good gear only in 10m for one.

[Daedalon]

For crying out loud. No1 needs gold - only lazy one doesnt have 50k+ (and why da hell do u need so much anyway?). Nor about emblems - after about the month u will not need 'em at all - they will just stack up in currency tab like a trash. Same with epix - gearing speed doesnt matter if they will implement gating system.

So.... can u come with advantages one more time plese?

Go out ? Seen the sun recently ?

[Hysteriia]

Blizz is catering to the casuals once again. Making a harder raid(25 mans) having same loot content as the easier(10 mans) kills any need for larger guilds. Sharing the same lockout will also cause a lot of guild break ups for the fact that people won't be getting in to raids with officers and people who can down the actual content. TBC and WotLK raiding systems were good. Having single raids with a 10man aim, and raids with a 25man limit allows a larger spectrum of players to experience the content, as long as they are not the most casual of the casuals allows for a more fun enjoyable time every week knowing you used your raid lockout to the best of your ability. The same gear thing also brings my hopes down for a good expirience, it makes me think that Blizzard is spending more time on the mechanics, the zones, and the quests in the new expansion, rather than caring about the majority of the players that enjoy a more hardcore raid feeling. In TBC I was a more casual themed player, I PvPed once in a while, and tried to get in a KZ or Mag every week. WotLK got me into more serious raiding, not like hardcore, but a more entertaining expirience. With these new raid changes, I may be looking to PvP, something I have not enjoyed as much over time, to fill that gap where raiding was. If Blizzard chooses to also limit PvP enjoyment, and the skill needed to succeed, I honestly may choose to go another way from Blizzard, because all I am getting from this company is one disappointment after another. :-\

[Belize]

Am i the only one enjoying the ammount of pages? ;D

oh no 89 pages worth of mostly QQ is a tremendous amount! I mean i never thought it was even possible!
Anyways back to subject...Hey as long as I get somekind of gear to make me do more DPS then im happy *shrugs*

[emoney]

all i can say is fail

[Themessiah]

I don't know if this has already been asked but what I question is how will the raid locks be handled.

For instance, if a 25man is started on day one and on day two 5 of the 25 can not make it due to rl and can not be replaced, how will the transition to 10man work? Will the 20 people have to decide which 10 will be continuing on that raid ID while the other 10 basically get screwed over for the week? If that will be the case why bother doing 25mans at all with that risk if 2-3 10mans would be more viable considering the same gear quality. Unless I totally misread the notes.

That is a good question - a very very good question, and one which isn't answered in the notes. I would expect a blue in the coming weeks/months to answer this. Though I will be loathed to wait.

[rkma]

ITT: people who have never organized a serious 25-man guild and/or don't really care if 25-man guilds disappear.

[Fix1o0]

This must have been a request from the designers department. Having most people getting into 10-mans will save them people complaining about 10-man items having the same model and colors as 25-man. Har-har.

On a serious note. It sounds alright, but please make some weapons and tier-sets cool and unique again. Not this re-skinned model nonsense.

I can already imagine a remodeled Bloodfang set because most people that play nowadays didn't had the chance to have tier2. Well, that's just too bad for them

[Môröb]

Lol they spelt Realm wrong "Ream" :P

[Rootofalleli]

ITT: people who have never organized a serious 25-man guild and/or don't really care if 25-man guilds disappear.

Completely wrong.

[Decrepit05]

I haven't played wow in a couple months, got kinda bored/burned out. I can't really put my finger on why it isn't fun right now, I think it's several things that make it kinda feel bleh.

I always planned on coming back in time for Cata, this is definitely big news for the raiders....I can't really say how I feel about it right now, but, I think it will turn out being a good thing.