Shared raid lockouts in cataclysm make sense (FINALLY!)

[Darkelementz]

I always thought it kinda odd that you can kill Malygos twice, or kill Jaraxxus up to 4 times in a single week, or kill the LICH KING twice a week. I love how they are mixing the best of WotLK with the raiding of BC
WotLK: raid flexibility for 10/25 mans with appropriate gear
BC: only one boss kill per week (otherwise lore gets so messed up, it'd be like seeing 2 Arthas')

The similar loot is the only thing that troubles me. If you can get, say, ilevel 325 gear from 10 man Grim Batol, and 325 gear from 25 man Grim Batol, what the hell is the point of coordinating 15 extra people and fighting bosses with a less forgivable enrage and abilities?

In its current state, this will nail down the coffin on 25 player raiding since there will be no bonus incentive, although 10 player raiding will really start to take off more than it is now. Also, lore-wise, this change makes SO much sense, compared to the ridiculousness of WotLK lore in raids.

[seam]

10 mans will be harder.

Atm, 10 mans already require more for each person. When the fights become more punishing, you will see 10 mans be as hard, if not harder, than 25 mans.

[klaps_05]

No, it does not.

/thread

[BurningStick]

Sorry for telling you this, but this topic (and similar ones) have been dicussed over and over again... So what's the point?

[Requital]

I always thought it kinda odd that you can kill Malygos twice, or kill Jaraxxus up to 4 times in a single week, or kill the LICH KING twice a week. I love how they are mixing the best of WotLK with the raiding of BC
WotLK: raid flexibility for 10/25 mans with appropriate gear
BC: only one boss kill per week (otherwise lore gets so messed up, it'd be like seeing 2 Arthas')

The similar loot is the only thing that troubles me. If you can get, say, ilevel 325 gear from 10 man Grim Batol, and 325 gear from 25 man Grim Batol, what the hell is the point of coordinating 15 extra people and fighting bosses with a less forgivable enrage and abilities?

In its current state, this will nail down the coffin on 25 player raiding since there will be no bonus incentive, although 10 player raiding will really start to take off more than it is now. Also, lore-wise, this change makes SO much sense, compared to the ridiculousness of WotLK lore in raids.

You sir are 100% correct and welcome to World of Warcraft Casualclysm.

[slevnkalevra]

Sorry for telling you this, but this topic (and similar ones) have been dicussed over and over again... So what's the point?

To discuss it again.

Or perhaps I shall answer your question with a question? What is the point of life?

[Aggronought]

They say that they will have 10 man and 25 man as close in difficulty as they possibly can. Whether that means making 10 mans harder, or 25 mans easier, who knows. I agree that putting in the extra effort to get 25 mans coordinated should be rewarded, it's not my decision. As for me, I will probably be running with a 10 man guild, unless a change happens during the next for months.

[Deleted]

You sir are 100% correct and welcome to World of Warcraft Casualclysm.

This pretty much sums it up

[Juneah]

10 man will most likely be more demanding, but that's easier to get 9 good players than 24. But 25 man will have more loot, and it will also be semi-lucrative if I'm understanding that blue post right. So you can actually make good money raiding.

[BurningStick]

What is the point of life?

To eat cookies while you watch television...? I thought everybody knew that ??? ???

[ThrashMetalFtw]

How is the lore any less fucked up if you kill a boss once per week than twice or 4 times per week?

On topic: Everything about the shared raid lockout is awesome, hate that in the beginning of every content patch, you "have" to do the 10man aswell (brings back the TBC-feeling aswell!)

The only thing that should be changed is that 10 and 25man drops the same gear, I mean wtf? Is it 1. of April already?

[Auro]

I agree with the OP. Killing each boss multiple times a week is tiring, tedious and doesnt really make much sense. And for those of us with multiple toons, its a sure fire way to burn out fast!

Currently 10 mans require much more FROM each person

However, when doing 10 mans with people in 25m gear, they become just SO easy.

Also, in 25m you can very easily carry people in normal modes, while this is generally much harder to do in 10m.

To forgive this 10m's are generally balanced such that certain mechanics can be much easier and other can be much harder or frustrating.

To that end, it seems as though all of this will be rebalanced AND the rewards for 25m will be in greater supply.

Currently 10m generally drops 2 items per average boss. 25m drops 3. It seems as though they will possibly be "upping" the 25m cache or lowering the 10m (or both) to make the 25m commensurate with effort.

I dont know why you all post about the falling sky before even taking a second to consider the implications of the blue post. Next time think before posting FALLING SKY IS FALLING

And as for them dropping the same gear, I think this makes sense. It prevents the exorbitant gear inflation we saw during wrath, which I dont think the dev's ever want to see happen again.

[Bigjay]

uhmm so you're RPing to the point where killing something twice in a week freaks you out. But the entire world coming back to life every week is just fine and dandy from your RP perspective.

Same ilvl fine, but keep raid lock outs seperate. 10 man guilds will be rewarded with equal quality gear for their time. Harder core guilds will find time to raid both 10 and 25 and double their chances at an item.

10 mans can still QQ things arn't fair, but their quality of gear is the same, and the guilds that put in more time should get more reward. Not everything should be free, more time can equal more rewards. Plus all the 10 man people say they do it because it's more fun and shouldn't be penalized, then just run it and enjoy your upgrades whether beast in slot or not.

I enjoy both, I enjoy a 25 man guild that exists to be best on server, I enjoy playing with my large group of friends and also getting closer knit runs to know people better. Don't take shit away when there's no good reason to.

[Cyph3r]

I'm sorry but this change is something the player base has been asking for for a long time now. Some asked for it directly. Others asked for it by constantly saying "raiding is too easy, bring back the golden days of raiding!"

Well I hate to break it to you, but the "golden" days consisted of the stress of organizing huge groups of people to go hit a raid that you only got 1 shot at each week (same as in BC) and hoping that maybe, just maybe, that piece of loot you've been lusting over drops and you win it over the other 9 people who want it just as bad. Yes, loot is much easier to come by these days, and will continue to be in Cat, but is that really a bad thing? This reversion does the following:

By having the same loot drop in 10 and 25 you can no longer outgear the current 10 man content, making 10 man more difficult by default.

With a shared lockout 25 man raiders (and really everyone) won't feel pressured to run the same content twice each week, causing burnout.

1 lockout means less emblems per week (or rather valor points) and less boss kills per week, which means we'll gear up SLOWER which means content won't feel old and stale as quickly.

So you wanted gear to mean something again? You wanted raiding to be harder? Here it is.

[Jon]

Right now 10mans are a joke compared to 25mans. We can only hope this means 10mans will get harder, instead of 25mans getting easier.

[HavokHeart]

25 players of bad quality can do it easier than 10 bads.

[Gyrllsbear]

I always thought it kinda odd that you can kill Malygos twice, or kill Jaraxxus up to 4 times in a single week, or kill the LICH KING twice a week.

On that logic it would be weird that you can kill the Lich King more than once though, or kill Arugal more than once surely?

But yes, shared makes sense.

[Cyclone Duke]

Pointing out for those that somehow missed it, that 25 mans will result in more badges and gold for everyone, and more loot per person.

10 man boss kill:
2 items dropping (1/5th chance you'll get an item)
2 emblems each (or 1000 bosskill points each)
10 gold each

25 man boss kill:
7 items drop (1/3rd chance you will get an item)
3 emblems each (or 1500 bosskil points each)
15 gold each


Numbers posted above are just examples of course. Point being:
running 25 mans will result is more gear per-person dropping; meaning a higher chance you will receive loot. Along with flat out getting more gold and more emblems/points per bosskill.

[Cloudfury]

The reason they implemented this change is because there are going to be more multiple boss raids per tier. Don't see how people only read the negative things.

[Niter]

I'm sorry but this change is something the player base has been asking for for a long time now. Some asked for it directly. Others asked for it by constantly saying "raiding is too easy, bring back the golden days of raiding!"

Well I hate to break it to you, but the "golden" days consisted of the stress of organizing huge groups of people to go hit a raid that you only got 1 shot at each week (same as in BC) and hoping that maybe, just maybe, that piece of loot you've been lusting over drops and you win it over the other 9 people who want it just as bad. Yes, loot is much easier to come by these days, and will continue to be in Cat, but is that really a bad thing? This reversion does the following:

By having the same loot drop in 10 and 25 you can no longer outgear the current 10 man content, making 10 man more difficult by default.

With a shared lockout 25 man raiders (and really everyone) won't feel pressured to run the same content twice each week, causing burnout.

1 lockout means less emblems per week (or rather valor points) and less boss kills per week, which means we'll gear up SLOWER which means content won't feel old and stale as quickly.

So you wanted gear to mean something again? You wanted raiding to be harder? Here it is.

I think you are totally right and so is Blizzard's decision.

This will mean the content will be less trivialised, it will not be obsolete so often and Blizzard, hopefully, will be able to provide improvements to our gear at a slower pace, meaning we should not be getting what we got in regards to ilvl in WotLK (first 10man raids dropping 200, then the last tier of 10man raiding has ilvl 251 rewards).

If they pull this off nicely this time we may have a good time doing more raids, heroics will not become such a joke so very quickly and Blizzard will not be compelled to provide this many loot piñatas that we have now.

Wrath Of the Lich King has failed in the sense that ilvl was all over the place and as new raids came, the older ones were left behind. In order to close the cap and keep guilds being able to raid and the majority of the playerbase being active in raids, they were forced to provide much better gear almost effortlessly.

I really support the way Blizzard mended WotLK in regards to progression disparities, and I support the 'new' model they have to avoid having to fix such things again.