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  1. #1

    DPS difference between Destro vs Demo in 4.0.1

    Ive seen this asked in some other threads but not with any real answers, so was just curious to know how far ahead destro on the latest PTR build and how have the rotations changed for both specs other then destro having random Soulfire procs.

  2. #2
    Dreadlord hellar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunternation View Post
    Ive seen this asked in some other threads but not with any real answers, so was just curious to know how far ahead destro on the latest PTR build and how have the rotations changed for both specs other then destro having random Soulfire procs.
    I know this is no ptr. its beta videos from about a week ago.

    Demo- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6qKYVi-y2I

    Destro- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3q96sDlMs4

    I hope that helped some.

  3. #3
    Both Demo and Destro looks good imo, affliction looks crap.

    PS. i don't care about numbers

  4. #4
    Hellar's video's are a fair representation although he plays destruction pretty poorly, no offense to you.

  5. #5
    Dreadlord hellar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asuza View Post
    Hellar's video's are a fair representation although he plays destruction pretty poorly, no offense to you.
    none taken. wasent me

  6. #6
    I'm really curious as to what the rotations look like, I mean, the rotation defines the class and spec, if you're looking forward to raiding, you're looking forward to managing your rotation and adapting to boss mechanics. I'm not in Beta, but from what I see on threads I'm going to try to come up with a Demonology spec and rotation/priority since it's the spec I intend on using, would someone care to provide some imput if I miss something, or get something wrong?

    Spec: http://wowtal.com/#k=-AAuQwJ4.a2y.warlock


    . If you don't have an active demon, summon Fel Guard.
    . Apply Dark Intent on someone.
    . If CoE is not up and no other class can provide the buff more easily, cast CoE.
    . If Bloodlust/Heroism is up, summon Doomguard.
    . Cast Metamorphosis.
    . Use Demon Soul
    . Use Trinkets and/or Racials.
    . Get in range, cast Immolation Aura.
    . If Bane of Doom is not up, cast Bane of Doom.
    . If Corruption is not up, cast Corruption.
    . If Immolate is not up, cast Immolate.
    . If Hand of Gul'dan's aura is not up or there is less than <Hand of Gul'dan's cast time> seconds left, cast Hand of Gul'dan.
    . Soulburn a Soul Fire during Metamorphosis. If you're casting Metamorphosis less than 3 times during a fight, use as many Soulburned Soul Fires during Metamorphosis as possible, otherwise use it on cooldown, as long as you have Soulburn up for your next Metamorphosis.
    . If Decimation is up, cast Soul Fire.
    . If Molten Core is up, cast Incinerate.
    . Cast Shadow Bolt.

    My main concerns:

    Is Corruption still part of Demo's rotation with the changes to Molten Core?
    Should we be casting Corruption and Hand of Gul'dan when we have Decimation up?
    Should we Incinerate when both Decimation and Molten Core are up, or stick to Soul Fire?
    With the Cremation talent, we just need to use Fel Flam on the move, right?
    Last edited by Throll; 2010-10-05 at 02:44 PM.

  7. #7
    Until theres real numbers though you can't really make a rotation. I mean remember Arcane Barrage? That used to be in a mages rotation until it got a nerf. It was only like -10% but enough to drop it out the rotation entirely. So same thing could apply to Corruption.

  8. #8
    Dreadlord hellar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throll View Post
    I'm really curious as to what the rotations look like, I mean, the rotation defines the class and spec, if you're looking forward to raiding, you're looking forward to managing your rotation and adapting to boss mechanics. I'm not in Beta, but from what I see on threads I'm going to try to come up with a Demonology spec and rotation/priority since it's the spec I intend on using, would someone care to provide some imput if I miss something, or get something wrong?

    Spec: http://wowtal.com/#k=-AAuQwJ4.a2y.warlock


    . If you don't have an active demon, summon Fel Guard.
    . Apply Dark Intent on someone.
    . If CoE is not up and no other class can provide the buff more easily, cast CoE.
    . If Bloodlust/Heroism is up, summon Doomguard.
    . Cast Metamorphosis.
    . Use Demon Soul
    . Use Trinkets and/or Racials.
    . Get in range, cast Immolation Aura.
    . If Bane of Doom is not up, cast Bane of Doom.
    . If Corruption is not up, cast Corruption.
    . If Immolate is not up, cast Immolate.
    . If Hand of Gul'dan's aura is not up or there is less than <Hand of Gul'dan's cast time> seconds left, cast Hand of Gul'dan.
    . Soulburn a Soul Fire during Metamorphosis. If you're casting Metamorphosis less than 3 times during a fight, use as many Soulburned Soul Fires during Metamorphosis as possible, otherwise use it on cooldown, as long as you have Soulburn up for your next Metamorphosis.
    . If Decimation is up, cast Soul Fire.
    . If Molten Core is up, cast Incinerate.
    . Cast Shadow Bolt.

    My main concerns:

    Is Corruption still part of Demo's rotation with the changes to Molten Core?
    Should we be casting Corruption and Hand of Gul'dan when we have Decimation up?
    Should we Incinerate when both Decimation and Molten Core are up, or stick to Soul Fire?
    With the Cremation talent, we just need to use Fel Flam on the move, right?
    -Is Corruption still part of Demo's rotation with the changes to Molten Core?

    (currently yes, although prob wont say this way, i see them dropping it from rotation)

    -Should we be casting Corruption and Hand of Gul'dan when we have Decimation up?

    (corruption, no, HoG i would assume yes to keep up immo on the target, and it hits really hard +pet crit damg, all a +++ in my book)

    -Should we Incinerate when both Decimation and Molten Core are up, or stick to Soul Fire?

    (this one is tricky but i think that when decimation is up and a MC procs, you will spam 3 incinerates then go back to SF spamming. I think this will depend on how much haste and SP one has to see how efficient this will be) (for example MM hunter are suppose to use arcane shot in their rotation "live" but at a certain armor pen, they will drop arcane shot from rotation b.c it is less efficient to dps) same might be for this.

    -With the Cremation talent, we just need to use Fel Flam on the move, right?

    yes Fel Flame and prob put up corrup while your moving. Fel Flame is more of a pvp spell. if your moving, try life taping. if mana isnt a issue then Fel Flam and corrp
    Last edited by hellar; 2010-10-05 at 03:10 PM.

  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans nocturnus's Avatar
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    The videos are kinda outdated. BE is still OP, immolate's damage hasn't been adjusted and he's using bane of havoc.

  10. #10
    Casting HoG straight after immolate is a little awkward, most of the time immolate falls off just as it lands. In my opinion, HoG should be cast before corruption, then immolate after corruption.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by hellar View Post
    -Is Corruption still part of Demo's rotation with the changes to Molten Core?

    (currently yes, although prob wont say this way, i see them dropping it from rotation)

    -Should we be casting Corruption and Hand of Gul'dan when we have Decimation up?

    (corruption, no, HoG i would assume yes to keep up immo on the target, and it hits really hard +pet crit damg, all a +++ in my book)

    -Should we Incinerate when both Decimation and Molten Core are up, or stick to Soul Fire?

    (this one is tricky but i think that when decimation is up and a MC procs, you will spam 3 incinerates then go back to SF spamming. I think this will depend on how much haste and SP one has to see how efficient this will be) (for example MM hunter are suppose to use arcane shot in their rotation "live" but at a certain armor pen, they will drop arcane shot from rotation b.c it is less efficient to dps) same might be for this.

    -With the Cremation talent, we just need to use Fel Flam on the move, right?

    yes Fel Flame and prob put up corrup while your moving. Fel Flame is more of a pvp spell. if your moving, try life taping. if mana isnt a issue then Fel Flam and corrp
    I'm following this discussion on the official US Warlock boards, made some updates there but it'd get kinda tiresome to keep updating two different threads, so just look for a thread called "Demonology rotation in Cataclysm" over there.

  12. #12
    Dreadlord hellar's Avatar
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    Rotation will be somthing alone the line of- as of right now.
    CoD
    Immo
    HoG
    Corrup
    SB spam
    Demon Soul
    look for random MC proc and spam 3 incinerates.
    Keep Immo up using HoG, keep corrup up. keep up CoD
    SB spam.
    Use meta of the bat or at key situations (depends)
    Summon Inferno or Doomguard when lust/hero is up to get max efficiency.

    Pop meta form and Demon soul when off CD.

    Below 25%
    Keep CoD up
    Keep using HoG to keep up 10% cit and immo.
    Spam SF (maybe spam incinerate if MC procs)
    Use CD's accordingly

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by hellar View Post
    I know this is no ptr. its beta videos from about a week ago.

    Demo- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6qKYVi-y2I

    Destro- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3q96sDlMs4

    I hope that helped some.

    No offence to him but doesn't seem like a good warlock.

  14. #14
    Dreadlord hellar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dejin View Post
    No offence to him but doesn't seem like a good warlock.
    hehe yea he had bad uptimes on almost everything but adding new spells and random procs might have thrown off what he is use it. idk what he plays live

  15. #15
    It's worth noting that with sufficient Haste, Immolate is actually impossible to maintain with HoG alone, as it's cooldown, cast, and travel time will exceed the duration of the DoT.
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlocomotif on EU Warlock forums
    Even if you stop cating it can be flat out impossible to do. At 10% haste immolate's duration (13.6s) simply is shorter than the cast time + cooldown of hand of guldan (13.8s).

    Even if you had no latency, and instant reactions, it simply mechanically isn't possible.

  16. #16
    those numbers of haste to get HoG fast enough at 85 proberly won't be possible till the later tiers, stuff isn't balanced to the 4.0.1 patch and level 80's stacking haste out the wazoo like we currently are.

    That said, it's going to make demo very clunky for the month or two we will need to play it. It sucks but once levels open up and cata is released and haste conversion from numbers to %'s change and get lower, and immo gets easier to keep up with HoG.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    It's worth noting that with sufficient Haste, Immolate is actually impossible to maintain with HoG alone, as it's cooldown, cast, and travel time will exceed the duration of the DoT.
    In Cataclysm, haste will not shorten the duration of dots (as much), it will only shorten the time between ticks.

    As I understand it, the duration of the dot will shorten until the ticks are short enough to fit an additional one in without exceeding the original duration, then the additional tick will increase the duration back closer to original. It's explained in detail here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...s-in-Cataclysm
    Last edited by Jasyn; 2010-10-05 at 11:38 PM.

  18. #18
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    There is a point in which haste will work against you. Consider a situation where your haste gives you 5.95 ticks of immolate but is insufficient to give you 6 ticks. This shortens the duration without granting a new tick. Math:

    15/5.95 = 2.521s Periodic Tick x 5 ticks = 12.605s Immolate.

    That's too short. Immolate falls off. Now if you had literally 1 Haste/Int gem it would push you over and smooth out your rotation, giving you 6 ticks and a duration of 14.9s, which is long enough to refresh.

    R.I.P. YARG

  19. #19
    Going to suck but if they leave it as is according to that math Gherkin, we will have to determine the amount of ticks we get with current haste, find out if it's a DPS gain to go for more, or drop some and gain more int and/or mastery or whatever the more favorable stat is at that gear level.

    Not going to be too friendly for people that don't like to get their hands dirty with the meta game and numbers game and will clog the forums with 'should I get more haste or drop some and gem/enchant for stat XYZ?'

    Going to be interesting to see how they balance it up, if they even do.

  20. #20
    Currently, I'm not keeping up Corruption on my Demo lock. The damage output is negligible and with the change to Molten Core, it doesn't really seem necessary. Plus, I'm finding I need every GCD I can get to consistently be able to refresh Immolate w/ HoG.

    I've macroed my Fel Guard's Felstorm to Shadow Bolt, which is actually a very decent dps boost. I currently have a Soulburn/Soul Fire macro set as well that I spam whenever Soulburn's CD is up, although I may change that depending on how unpredictable Cata boss mechanics turn out to be (I figure I might be using Soulburn for the HS 30% health boost or an instant Demon summon)

    Demos in an awesome place right now... seems like we're one of the few classes whose dps has actually gone up compared to live (I've been getting about 15k worth of burst dps from popping Infernal, Demon Soul, Meta, and Felstorm at the beginning of the fight. After that, I don't seem to get much below 12.5-13k) I'd be surprised if Destro was much more than that, I've only tested Demo and Affli.

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