Shockadin

[Styria]

Crusader's Strike is going to be baseline
Holy Shock can still be used offensively
Judgements arent going anywhere
Shield of the Righteous is staying put
Consecration will still be around
Exorcism? yep, thats staying too
Hand of the Righteous can be used to pull, and will deal a decent amount of damage too.

did i miss anything?


That'll be more than enough for leveling purposes if you really want to level holy.

Leveling as a healer is pretty much the same as every class... you'll kill everything pretty slowly, but you're probably not going to die unless you do something stupid.

[shockpally]

Crusader's Strike is going to be baseline
Holy Shock can still be used offensively
Judgements arent going anywhere
Shield of the Righteous is staying put
Consecration will still be around
Exorcism? yep, thats staying too
Hand of the Righteous can be used to pull, and will deal a decent amount of damage too.

did i miss anything?


That'll be more than enough for leveling purposes if you really want to level holy.

Leveling as a healer is pretty much the same as every class... you'll kill everything pretty slowly, but you're probably not going to die unless you do something stupid.

All of those except holy shockl use AP and SP to do damage. Outside of BoM where are Holy paladin going to get AP from to help out? Which is my entire point. Holy do not have the same class structure as any other healing class. Priests, Druids and Shaman are built with baseline attack spells even though 2/3 of them have melee dps talent trees. Druids have 4 viable recognized talent builds that get access to damage and healing at the same time. What is the reason behind NOT building Holy Paladin in that way or even as well as shaman?

[Copain]

All of those except holy shockl use AP and SP to do damage. Outside of BoM where are Holy paladin going to get AP from to help out? Which is my entire point. Holy do not have the same class structure as any other healing class. Priests, Druids and Shaman are built with baseline attack spells even though 2/3 of them have melee dps talent trees. Druids have 4 viable recognized talent builds that get access to damage and healing at the same time. What is the reason behind NOT building Holy Paladin in that way or even as well as shaman?

Probably because the Paladin is supposed to be something different? They're the Plate person who's up in front, not the Cloth person in the back at their core (Even though they were, by design, supposed to be Holy when the game first started). Besides, why does it matter? just do random dungeons once you can... Lower level mobs die to your baseline abilities (like CS) even if you don't have the AP for it.

We don't know all the changes yet anyway, there could be things to help out.

[shockpally]

Probably because the Paladin is supposed to be something different? They're the Plate person who's up in front, not the Cloth person in the back at their core (Even though they were, by design, supposed to be Holy when the game first started). Besides, why does it matter? just do random dungeons once you can... Lower level mobs die to your baseline abilities (like CS) even if you don't have the AP for it.

We don't know all the changes yet anyway, there could be things to help out.

At lower levels there is even less of an incentive to ever go holy since ret or prot paladin can just use equipment manager to throw on an intellect healing set to heal anything if all they need is a healer and can get another tank/dps. Granted Holy shock would probably be available up around lvl 30-35 as if you were spending talent points to get it but who cares. They aren't doing anything to help holy become a complete class.

As far as holy paladin being different yes they are; not in a good way though. Try telling Shaman that lightning bolt, shocks and chain lightning are all going to get a AP/SP modifier like almost every spell paladin have and see what they say. After all they wear Mail and their aoe dps totems are meant to be dropped at the bosses feet. As far as paladin being meant to be up in with the melee goes i guess that is why they gave Holy a talent to lengthen our range of judgments so we dont have to stand in melee range to use the 2/3 judgements we need to use that has melee range without talents.

Next time you are standing up front with the tank and take a cleave, buffet or breath blast let me know how that turns out for you.

[Styria]

At lower levels there is even less of an incentive to ever go holy since ret or prot paladin can just use equipment manager to throw on an intellect healing set to heal anything if all they need is a healer and can get another tank/dps

right now you can do this until 80 in non-heroic dungeons... i healed Normal HoL as ret in full int gear at lvl 78. I remember 1 wipe, and that was because the group didnt run out of Ionar's disperse phase.

Next time you are standing up front with the tank and take a cleave, buffet or breath blast let me know how that turns out for you.

you dont have to be stacked on the tank to be in melee range...

[Copain]

At lower levels there is even less of an incentive to ever go holy since ret or prot paladin can just use equipment manager to throw on an intellect healing set to heal anything if all they need is a healer and can get another tank/dps. Granted Holy shock would probably be available up around lvl 30-35 as if you were spending talent points to get it but who cares. They aren't doing anything to help holy become a complete class.

That's because Holy isn't a class, it's a spec. You're asking for all your wants to be catered to, such as having the ability to deal more DAMAGE as a HEALER.

As far as holy paladin being different yes they are; not in a good way though. Try telling Shaman that lightning bolt, shocks and chain lightning are all going to get a AP/SP modifier like almost every spell paladin have and see what they say. After all they wear Mail and their aoe dps totems are meant to be dropped at the bosses feet. As far as paladin being meant to be up in with the melee goes i guess that is why they gave Holy a talent to lengthen our range of judgments so we dont have to stand in melee range to use the 2/3 judgements we need to use that has melee range without talents.

I'll tell a caster based class that his spells with a cast time are becoming AP based, because obviously our Spells with a cast time on our melee based class are based of AP. Wait- what did I miss?

Next time you are standing up front with the tank and take a cleave, buffet or breath blast let me know how that turns out for you.

Next time I'm tanking I'll do th-- oh wait.

Anyway, It's weird, I heard that cleave was in front of the boss....

[belfpala]

heh. is this thread still going?

There's a reason healers don't do competitive DPS. Who would need normal DPS if they did?

If the complaint is that holy paladins are behind other healing specs in damage dealing (which they probably are), that's valid. There are situations, usually in PvP, where a little burst from the healer can make a difference. I don't know the extent of the difference though. How much DPS can a smite spamming holy priest dish out? Or a wrath spamming resto druid? Or a lightning spamming resto shaman?

[Martsus]

heh. is this thread still going?

There's a reason healers don't do competitive DPS. Who would need normal DPS if they did?

If the complaint is that holy paladins are behind other healing specs in damage dealing (which they probably are), that's valid. There are situations, usually in PvP, where a little burst from the healer can make a difference. I don't know the extent of the difference though. How much DPS can a smite spamming holy priest dish out? Or a wrath spamming resto druid? Or a lightning spamming resto shaman?

Lightning bolts with a 2.5 sec cast time hitting for 1.6k-1.8k yay. Or what about the 2 sec lavaburst critting for 3k after first wasting a flameshock gcd. Shaman's dps kinda sucks, their offensive power lies in interrupting and purging.

Priest's dps is of over the top, managed to get up to 2.2k dps on a dummy.

Druids dps with their two dots up, + an offensive spec + wrathspamm can also do some nice dps.

However don't underestimate the value of a CC that can't break on damage every 40 seconds.

[belfpala]

Priest's dps is of over the top, managed to get up to 2.2k dps on a dummy.

Can I invite you to my next random heroic??