1. #1

    Blood Council 10 Tactics

    Hey,

    Tomorrow were doing Blood Council 1st time ever in our guild. Now I looked at tacts and vids (tankspot) but don't find a lot of 10m tacts (usually 25) and don't like vids as I usually have no clue what's going on... my question is the following, can someone expain the most important things to do on this fight ? Keep in mind we do NOT have a warlock (as I read something about alock tanking), nor can we get a warlock... (we have a fixed group). Our 10m group:

    Tank: Druid
    Tank: Death Knight
    Healer: Priest
    Healer: Paladin
    Healer: Druid
    DPS: Mage
    DPS: Rogue
    DPS: Warrior
    DPS: Hunter
    DPS: Shaman

    Thansk a lot !

  2. #2

    Re: Blood Council 10 Tactics

    completely copied + pasted from wowwiki

    The encounter consists of one phase. The 10 minute enrage timer is generous and should not be of any consequence. Three tanks are required, one of them can be a ranged tank (e.g. Warlock).

    At all times, one of the three princes has Invocation of Blood. The two without the buff have 1 HP and cannot be damaged, only the buffed prince has a proper health score and can take damage.

    Invocation of blood always starts on Prince Valanar (middle), and switches randomly every 30 seconds to another prince.

    All three princes have rather low armor and thus take high melee damage. DPS cooldowns should be used on Keleseth, since he frequently casts Shadow Lance which makes it impossible for him to dodge.

    Prince KelesethThis prince can basically be tanked by any class whith a ranged attack. He does not use any melee abilities, he instead spams Shadow Lance.

    For this reason, the Keleseth tank must gain shadow mitigation from the Dark Nucleii. These spawn randomly around the room, and the Keleseth tank must grab them to gain the stacking Shadow Resonance buff. Dark Nucleus does not follow normal aggro table, they instead follow the last person that hit it. Melee aoe abilities do not pull Dark Nucleii off the Keleseth tank (excepting Hammer of the Righteous and Heartstrike). The Dark Nucleii destroy themselves over time, necessitating finding more to keep the shadow resistance buff up. Note that the damage reduction from Dark Nucleii is multiplicative not additive, so even with 6 Nucleii the tank still takes some damage. More than 6 Nucleii is not advisable, since at that point the tank takes more damage from the Nucleii than from Shadow Lance.

    Prince ValanarValanar summons Kinetic bombs so that 2/3 (10/25 player) are up at all times. These Bombs float in the air and slowly move to the floor, upon impact they explode for ~16k damage. Every time they take damage, they float a little upwards. After 1 minute, they despawn.

    To prevent the bombs from exploding, they must be continually damaged. The easiest method to achieve this is to use a warlock or hunter melee pet. A melee pet set on a bomb just sits below the bomb until it floats low enough, then attacks it until it floats up out of range again. This may fail though when the pet is effectively kicking the bomb up the stairs. They best way to ensure that this does not happen is position the pet so that the bomb is between the door that the raid enters the room from and the pet, not the pet between the door and the bomb. Using a warlock imp is not optimal either, as the imp may use all its mana and then be unable to keep the bomb up.

    Ranged damage dealers can do this too, but this leads to loss of DPS on the bosses. Players thus want to switch from the Bomb to a boss and back, but this can lead to errors (like accidentally targeting Nucleii). Switching on nameplates or using a targeting macro help avoiding these errors.

    Sometimes a kinetic bomb glitches and gets stuck in the floor and not go back up, no matter how hard it's being hit. If this is the case, then someone needs to continually beat on the bomb until it dissipates, otherwise it explodes. This tends to happen on the raised stage in the back of the room.

    Valanar puts shock vortexes on random raid members which knocks both them and any nearby (~12 yards) raid members back 50 yards. When he gains Invocation of Blood he casts Empowered Shock Vortex which creates a shock vortex on top of every player in the room; melee need to scatter and get away from each other, while the rest of the raid should already be spread out. Players must keep 12 yards away from everyone else.

    Prince TaldaramPrince Taldaram conjures balls of flame which follow a random raid member and explode when they reach their target. When they pass through other players, the damage they do is reduced, down to a minimum of 10k. When Taldaram has Invocation of Blood he launches Empowered Balls of Flame which follow the same mechanism, but deal higher damage, and also damage the players they pass on their way to their target.

    Players who are NOT targeted by Empowered Balls of Flame should stick together and stay close to the route of the ball, especially ranged dps. In this way you drain the energy of the Empowered Balls of Flame and that makes it hurt less.

  3. #3

    Re: Blood Council 10 Tactics

    I read that but it's for 25 man tactics (it even talks about 3 tanks). Just want the quick and dirty for 10 man (minus a lock)

  4. #4

    Re: Blood Council 10 Tactics

    The hunter should be capable of tanking the range guy, Keleseth, if you really need to. I tanked our 10man HC kill, so I'm sure it's perfectly viable to do it on normal. 25-man tactics are perfectly fine for 10man. If you aren't willing to take the extra minute to read them, then, uh, don't know what to tell you.

  5. #5

    Re: Blood Council 10 Tactics

    It talks about 3 tanks since 3 tanks are always needed for this encounter. 2 proper tanks (actual tanks) and 1 last tank, a ranged DPS. The last "tank" needs to run around the room and pick "shadow balls up" by damaging them, and needs to keep aggro on prince Kelseth.
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    I play a ret paladin, so my answer is this:

    Yes.

  6. #6

    Re: Blood Council 10 Tactics

    we usually just get 1 tank for taldaram and valanar, the other on keleseth, ranged watch orbs, everyone watch for special abilities, then receive purpz

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire ezmage's Avatar
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    Re: Blood Council 10 Tactics

    Our guild usually do it with 1 tank grabbing valanaar and taldaram while the other tank with better ranged ability's tanks keleseth. Hunter takes orbs with pet on 1 and shot the other one. The rest is exactly the same as any other tactic.

  8. #8

    Re: Blood Council 10 Tactics

    It's perfectly fine (and in some ways preferable) for one of your tanks to hold Valanar and Taldaram while the other tank takes Keleseth.

  9. #9

    Re: Blood Council 10 Tactics

    Just use 2 tanks, 1 take the ranged one the other one takes the others done and done

  10. #10

    Re: Blood Council 10 Tactics

    i think you know the basic mechanics of this encounter due to 10/25 nonhc, so i won't explain them here.
    they just hit a bit harder, have more hp and a new ability in hc (stackable debuff on every player that moves and does shadow damage, so you need to stand still as much as possible)

    have the druid tank valanar+talderam, the dk kelseth (dunno about dk tanks there cause we're doing it with a pally tank but it should be possible with ams/def cd's)
    hunter goes up the platform and shoots all orbs that he can reach without moving too much (send pet to 2nd orb, repeat)
    discuss where everyone will run when valanar does his empowered shock vortex to minimize the shadow debuff and avoid beeing kicked, blow hero after a switch from valanar to talderam (melees already at the mob) and collect loot.

    (sometimes orbs seem to spawn unreachable behind the closed doors, happened to us, dunno what triggered that :/ )

  11. #11

    Re: Blood Council 10 Tactics

    -Have 1 tank on Keleseth other tank on the other 2. The tank with the other 2 should be in the middle-ish of the room so you can spread out for empowered shock vortex easier.
    -Have your ranged spread out. (one at the top of the steps on the stage and one back by the door or make a triangle if the shaman is ele) to deal with the kinetic orbs. If one person can juggle all the orbs at once have him do so and call it out so your other ranged can get back on the boss.
    -Make sure people are dragging a few stacks of the empowered fire orb when it hits as to not 1 shot the person that has been targeted
    -Have your shaman use hero/BL when Taladram is the kill target. Keleseth is a no no due to threat issues (tank is spending time on the orbs and has minimal threat on boss. and Valanars emp shock vortex forces melee to run away and waste the buff.

    This fight is pretty much a cake walk especially now with the 15% buff. The enrage timer is insanely long for the 5,6 mil health they have in 10. The fight is all about the mechanics so just worry about that.

  12. #12

    Re: Blood Council 10 Tactics

    Seems like others got the strategy part down.

    My 2 cents (our guild attempted this tonight and will probably down it tommorow *crosses fingers*)

    Be prepared to die, a lot, and often very quickly. There are a million and one ways to wipe before you get a grip on what the hell is going on. If you have DBM stuff will get spammed offscreen before you can read it. Need to watch for:

    Kinetic Orbs of Death
    Shock Vortex
    Super-Leet Shock Vortex of Death
    Fireball
    Uber-Fireball which requires stacking while not stacking because of Shock Vortex

    Once you get all those things under wraps, the healers still need to keep 2/3 tanks up while handling the raid (every attempt one of our tanks has died, seems like they just cant handle 3).

    Complicated fight but you'll get it. Just take the dps slow and stay alive
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  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire Ravemstr's Avatar
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    Re: Blood Council 10 Tactics

    Play it safe, eg:
    - use 3 tanks, the hunter on Keleseth(about that later on).
    - tell the hunter to put his pet to attack a kinetic Bomb and only that
    - tell the shammy(hope he's ele) to attack the other Kinetic Bombs(and only those)

    Taldaram
    - empowered he shoots a fiery orb towards someone, melee should follow that orb and take some damage from it, the person targeted by the orb should run away from it, that way you decrease the damage the targeted one takes to a very healable ammount
    - normal he shoots orbs, you can just ignore them and heal through

    Valanar
    - empowered he casts a vortex on everyone, it goes off under your feet wherever you are, at that moment everyone should run away and spread out to NOT be close to anyone else(/range 10 if i remember right, might be wrong)
    - normal he casts a big vortex somewhere in the room, just keep an eye out and avoid that place

    Keleseth
    - normal he shoots Shadow Lance at his tank(16k or something, heal through it, orbs will mitigate evn that so it's really easy)
    - empowered is where the fun begins. He shoots 80K lances at his tank(or highest threat) His tank will have to gather the blue orbs around the room to mitigate the damage. That's his priority. He should have 3 to 5 at any time on him. Best way to keep orbs on him is to use a DOT if he has anyDesignate one healer to keep him up at all times during this. I tanked in pvp gear to have a bigger health pool and be easier to heal.

    If your Kele tank doesn't have something that gives him threat(a lot of it) do not dps this guy. A lance shot at anyone that doesn't have at least 3 orbs on him will one shot him. Even tanks.

    Just follow these rules and it's a free kill. It's a very easy fight once you understand it:
    - shammy on Kinetic Bombs, allways, don't ever let one hit the ground
    - spread out at Empowered Shock Vortex, avoid the normal one
    - lust at Taldaram and burn that bitch
    - soak the Empowered fireball, have your melee follow it for 3-4 seconds then return to the boss
    - watch threat on keleseth, if the tank loses him it's a wipe, if he's not confident about threat do not dps this guy.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
    Warlocks are hard.

  14. #14

    Re: Blood Council 10 Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Thatdawg
    Just use 2 tanks, 1 take the ranged one the other one takes the others done and done
    This is how we do it on 10s too, though be careful - its quite possible for the MT to accidentally get keleseth too at the start and get one-shot.

    You don't really need 3 healers for this fight either, at least not so long as you have a holydin who is halfway decent.


  15. #15

    Re: Blood Council 10 Tactics

    What others have posted is more or less correct. I'd say one particular key to the fight though is making sure that everyone understands that survival is the priority.

    Your DK should definitely be able to tank Keleseth, but he's going to be spending a large quantity of his time on collecting the shadow nuclei. The dps MUST watch their threat on Kel, and realize that the Kel tank needs to be even MORE focused on getting shadow nuclei during the Kel's empowerment. The tank's threat may start out well ahead of everyone on a meter, but that's going to change quickly.

    It's not a dps race. I only do something like 5 or 6k on that fight in 10 man because I'm completely hyper about watching everything (chasing empowered fire orbs, etc), but even that is more than you need to do it right if people know what they're doing.

    You'd be surprised at how much EASIER it will be on your healers to only have 2 tanks instead of 3. From there it's your dps' responsibility to minimize their incoming damage by spatial awareness, thus keeping your healers focused on the tanks. AVR Encounters actually has several convenient visual aids for everyone in this fight; I'd recommend installing it for your whole raid right off the bat. It's going to give an immediate feel for certain mechanics that can cause chaos, such as the range on a non-empowered shock vortex, as well as your own knockback range during an empowered one.

    Edit: Just a side note, make sure your DK is not actually actively meleeing Keleseth AT VERY LEAST during empowerment. Incidental aoe and other dps effects from your melee can peel shadow nuclei.

  16. #16
    Brewmaster
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    Re: Blood Council 10 Tactics

    Hope you find use in this mate .

    What? 3 different princes take turns to become more powerful. Spread out for lightning boss, run away from big fireballs for fire boss, keep the OT up for shadow boss.

    Noob Mistake #1 - Running in the same direction, not spreading properly BEFORE Empowered Vortex
    Preassign directions for melee DPS to run, and the rest of the raid should stay relatively spread out BEFORE vortex is even cast.
    This way when it is cast, there is minimal movement, just the outer layer of people maybe spreading abit further outwards to prevent any accidental knockbacks.

    Noob Mistake #2 - Dying to Empowered Conjure Flames due to poor kiting
    The easiest way to handle this is to have the raid stand in a general centralized location such that the ranged/healers are around the same area.
    When the fireball is cast, the person targetted just has to run backwards, and the fireball will pass by all the other raid members and have its damage minimized.

    Noob Mistake #3 - Instagibs to Keleseth's tank / Pulling aggro of Keleseth
    Whether it's an actual tank or a ranged DPS you're using to OT Keleseth, you need to ensure you have MINIMUM 3 orbs on you at ALL TIMES, best if you have 4 or 5.
    It's a natural tendency to worry about threat on the boss, but that should really be your last concern. Priority is to get the 3 orbs FIRST, THEN build threat.
    - That said, it is CRUCIAL to watch threat when attacking Keleseth, especially in the early stages. Heck, you can even not DPS Keleseth if you're afraid of pulling aggro.
    There's no strict enrage timer, there's no rush. Just tell your raiders not to attack Keleseth if people keep pulling aggro.

    Noob Mistake #4 - Kinetic bomb goes kaboom.
    If you ever saw a lightning ball shoot at you and BAM you fly a mile away and drop to low health, it's most likely a Kinetic Bomb hitting the ground.
    Whoever is on Kinetic bombs need to stay full time on them! Don't even bother DPSing the boss, especially when 2-3 bombs are up.
    AFAIK, bombs are kept up by number of attacks; the magnitude of the attack does not matter.

    Noob Mistake #5 - Pulling Shadow Orbs off Keleseth Tank
    Avoid using all types of AoE/bouncing attacks such as Chain Lightning, Starfall, etc for this fight. You don't want to make the OT's job even harder by gaining personal aggro on the orbs. Plus, the Orbs do have HP so will die over time if you damage them. So don't.

    Pro Tip you never knew - A prot paladin tanking Keleseth is one of the ideal classes, since you can get a holydin to turn on RFury and heal to attract shadow orbs, then the prot pally just uses Righteous Defence to collect them
    Insert Signiture here.

  17. #17

    Re: Blood Council 10 Tactics

    Just adding my two penneth to this - as most people have suggested we also use one tank (DK) for keleseth, and one tank (paladin) on the other two. I think our DK works well on Keleseth as he has some ranged abilities to grab orbs and keep aggro on the boss plus a nice big health pool, but other tanks might work just as well. We just found that there was too much RNG on ranged/caster 'tanks' and were wiping to a bad timing or bad luck which is really frustrating. Healers need to be really on the ball at the beginning of the fight as the tank on the other two bosses might take a fair whack of damage while things are settling down.

    We run with 3 healers - a paladin, shaman and disc priest usually. The paladin and shaman usually need to be fairly stationary so the disc priest is assigned to the keleseth tank as the most mobile healer and plays follow You could do it with your 3 healers stationed in different areas of the room so that the tank is covered at all points, but we just find it easier to have it assigned. If the keleseth tank dies, everyone dies so it's vitally important to keep them up!

    Your hunter should be able to keep up the disco balls by himself - pet on one, shooting on the other and dpsing the bosses in between.

    Mostly this fight is about learning to handle the chaos, getting the hell out of each other's way when you need to, and keeping the Keleseth tank alive.

  18. #18

    Re: Blood Council 10 Tactics

    We actually just downed this for our first kill last night. We used 2 tanks, me a paladin on keleseth and a dk on the other two.

    His job was easy, what we had me doing was first getting some aggro on keleseth then gathering up the orbs. When keleseth became active I had 3/4 orbs on me and would run up to him to tank till one of the others activated. We it this from a guild that uses a Druid on keleseth so you should be able to make it work as well. Took us 2 wipes then we downed t. The healers said it was much easier with a tank on keleseth as opposed to a lock.

    Like I said, worked for us and is our new standard strat.

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