Point of View

[Runebreaker]

I've been a fly on the wall at MMOC for a while now, and one thing I've noticed is that whenever anything changes, it's always fifteen-year-old punks lashing out at one another from either side of the argument. Worse yet, people who get the gist of something usually end up crit'ing the forums to kingdom come with walls of text.

At the risk of being trolled, I'm going to offer my opinions on popular subjects as concisely as possible. For now, only two issues come to mind.





Gear Score (Still? People still talk about this? Christ..)

When you don't have the time to meticulously inspect or interview each individual in a 25-man, Gear Score is a quick and easy means of determining a players maximum potential. It has no bearing on the player's actual skill. Put simply, a player with a 5300 GS is far more likely to break 8k than a player with a 3200 GS, regardless of whether or not you're properly geared. Take it with a grain of salt.

If you find that GS has too great an effect on your ability to get into groups, then join a guild. Guilds are far more understanding, and usually give you a chance to be interviewed, which allows them to see whether or not you know what you're doing. Easier done than said.





25-mans in Cataclysm

Click here
Ctrl + F --> Essentially

In my years playing World of Warcraft, the primary reasons for raiding have been (never at the same time): loot, lore, and fun. I think that's all well and good, but judging from how people act towards one another, the biggest reason for raiding is respect. People respect those that have downed Lich King 25H. People respect world firsts. It's not about loot. It's all about respect, and guilds get respect when they down the most difficult content, especially if they're the first to do it.

If memory serves, people who completed Sarth3D in 10s earned more respect than those that did in 25s, and people were fine with that. In fact, I'm pretty sure there's a number of ICC fights that are more difficult in 10s.

Achievements will still be around, and so will the competition and respect.

[Theprophecy2186]

whenever anything changes, it's always fifteen-year-old punks lashing out at one another from either side of the argument.

Was the truest thing you said....


I think the mature players typically either post a single, well thought out and well typed post (like this one) to show their opinions, thoughts, and ideas on an aspect of the game which they discuss without sling insults or unnecessary slander, OR they simply sit back and laugh (like me) at all the kids who seem to be affected personally by Blizzards decisions.

[Izhara]

Was the truest thing you said....


I think the mature players typically either post a single, well thought out and well typed post (like this one) to show their opinions, thoughts, and ideas on an aspect of the game which they discuss without sling insults or unnecessary slander, OR they simply sit back and laugh (like me) at all the kids who seem to be affected personally by Blizzards decisions.

Or we unwind after work by discussing things and don't like to do things half-assed.

[Deleted]

This post was an enjoyable read. It was well-written and had an articulate use of the language.

There should be more posts like this out there, thumbs up mate 8)


On topic: Yea, this is pretty much summing up on two of the major topics, for a time being, at least.

There's nothing more to say about gearscore, but that it's function is exactly as you described it. The 25-mans in Cataclysm, well, at the end of the day, everything has a psychological explanation, and in this case, i 100% agree with you. When we're talking respect, it's what people out there would call "E-peen", which is just a silly internet term for "i want respect". I'm not saying it's a bad thing that people want respect, i'm pretty neutral about it really.
But i think for some of the younger people, loot and respect goes hand in hand. If you have respect, you're much likely to have loot too. On the other hand, that isn't true the other way around... hehe

oh, and

I've been a fly on the wall at MMOC for a while now, and one thing I've noticed is that whenever anything changes, it's always fifteen-year-old punks lashing out at one another from either side of the argument. Worse yet, people who get the gist of something usually end up crit'ing the forums to kingdom come with walls of text.

Amen

Ps: Thanks for the sig

[juzalol]

i remember the first time i got in orgrimmar, i looked at people like "OH LOOK AT THAT HUGE AXE! THAT GU MUST BE REAL PRO"
I was like "i hope i will get my hands on those shineys some day".

You raid, you get awesome gear, you show off on the roof of orgrimmars bank. When you look at someone, you can insntantly see how much he has cleared in raids by just looking at his gear. There is no need for inspecting him at all.

So when new player goes to orgrimmar in Cataclysm. He sees 15 guys on the roof of OG bank. They all look the same, they have same gear and same titles. So the player picks "Compare achievmenets" and starts scrolling through 200 raid achievements to see how awesome the guy is.

OG roof in Cataclysm:


1 of those have killed 7/7 hardmodes, rest of them have dinged lvl85 today. Try to guess which one has done the hardmodes.

[Izhara]

i remember the first time i got in orgrimmar, i looked at people like "OH LOOK AT THAT HUGE AXE! THAT GU MUST BE REAL PRO"
I was like "i hope i will get my hands on those shineys some day".

You raid, you get awesome gear, you show off on the roof of orgrimmars bank. When you look at someone, you can insntantly see how much he has cleared in raids by just looking at his gear. There is no need for inspecting him at all.

So when new player goes to orgrimmar in Cataclysm. He sees 15 guys on the roof of OG bank. They all look the same, they have same gear and same titles. So the player picks "Compare achievmenets" and starts scrolling through 200 raid achievements to see how awesome the guy is.

OG roof in Cataclysm:


1 of those have killed 7/7 hardmodes, rest of them have dinged lvl85 today. Try to guess which one has done the hardmodes.

The one with the unique title, mount, and who is actually busy raiding because they're too busy playing to piss and moan about what other people get.

[PrettyBiased]

The one with the unique title, mount, and who is actually busy raiding because they're too busy playing to piss and moan about what other people get.

I ride a gladiator mount, I wear no titles, and I log off when not raiding or I post here. You assume everyone flaunts their greatness, I am far beyond modest and actively give back to the community on a regular basis. Most of the changes in this game hurt me and my ability to enjoy the game greatly and I have only recently begun to post about it. Please don't assume people with titles wear them, it is precisely the people with excess titles who wear none, after around 40+ titles you realize they mean absolutely nothing at all.

[Izhara]

I ride a gladiator mount, I wear no titles, and I log off when not raiding or I post here. You assume everyone flaunts their greatness, I am far beyond modest and actively give back to the community on a regular basis. Most of the changes in this game hurt me and my ability to enjoy the game greatly and I have only recently begun to post about it. Please don't assume people with titles wear them, it is precisely the people with excess titles who wear none, after around 40+ titles you realize they mean absolutely nothing at all.

Pop quiz: How does other people wearing the worst set of the previous tier hurt you? How does a wider selection of people to raid with hurt you? How does people being geared enough to not have to soldier through two tiers of content nobody runs anymore hurt you? How does more people being able to experience the normal modes for worse loot than you hurt you? Or are you one of those people whose main form of ego boosts came from afking in Ironforge/Orgrimmar in full tier armor flaunting the fact that you had more time to invest into farming for pointless resist sets and who got to carry 10 window-licking retards every week so the fact that other people are in tier armor is like some personal insult against you in particular?

[PrettyBiased]

Before I dissect this might I say you are carrying an enormous chip on your shoulder.

Pop quiz: How does other people wearing the worst set of the previous tier hurt you?

Directly it changes my ability to tell where someone has been and what they do with their time in game when everyone is wearing the same gear. Indirectly it completely removes all meaning tier gear once held (meaning you conquered xx boss or instance) and waters down player identity.

How does a wider selection of people to raid with hurt you?

Tuesday lag, additional instances cannot be launched sever instability crashes and ques.

How does people being geared enough to not have to soldier through two tiers of content nobody runs anymore hurt you?

Giving players the gear through heroics instead of causing them to raid for the gear fools would be recuiting guilds into thinking people learned how to raid and mastered at least the fights with which they are weaing gear from. I had to "soldier" through two tiers of gear, progressing both as a player and a character is kind of the point of the game.

How does more people being able to experience the normal modes for worse loot than you hurt you?

The accomplishment of killing a boss is completely gone when said boss is available on multiple difficulties, it's no longer I've killed arthas I now have to explain with a paragraph response which Arthas exactly I killed in which instance size and which difficulty, it's completely watered down. Reaching a boss used to strike the beholder with awe and a sense of accomplishment, now that it is a certainty that sense of accomplishment is gone.

Or are you one of those people whose main form of ego boosts came from afking in Ironforge/Orgrimmar in full tier armor flaunting the fact that you had more time to invest into farming for pointless resist sets and who got to carry 10 window-licking retards every week so the fact that other people are in tier armor is like some personal insult against you in particular?

Being that you met me in this thread by reading a post where I specifically said I am modest and I do not brag furthermore I am not even found in the game idling ever because I am either in arena a raid or offline I find this to be you holding some sort of prejudice against high end raiders. The only ego I have is shared with those of my guildmates about the success of the guild we created and maintain, and of course when you create something that is a success there is a certain amount of ego that comes with it.

Believe it or not having an ego is not the same as being in someones face and boasting constantly, you can have pride in your accomplishments while maintaining modest behavior.

[Izhara]

Before I dissect this might I say you are carrying an enormous chip on your shoulder.

I've never hidden this fact. I've seen the worst of the raiding community in both Vanilla and TBC and as such have a unique view on those expansions people wearing rose-colored glasses like to omit from their memories.

Directly it changes my ability to tell where someone has been and what they do with their time in game when everyone is wearing the same gear. Indirectly it completely removes all meaning tier gear once held (meaning you conquered xx boss or instance) and waters down player identity.

Directly, all it means is you need to click "Inspect" and look for the "Heroic" tag, or hit them up on armory. This is something you ought to do anyway if you intend to bring them anywhere which is the only time what someone else wears should ever matter to you.

Tuesday lag, additional instances cannot be launched sever instability crashes and ques.

All which can be fixed via adding extra instance servers--something Blizzard, in fact, did. Saying that it's bad that there are enough players raiding that Blizzard needs to expand their facilities is a completely alien thought process to me, honestly.

Giving players the gear through heroics instead of causing them to raid for the gear fools would be recuiting guilds into thinking people learned how to raid and mastered at least the fights with which they are weaing gear from. I had to "soldier" through two tiers of gear, progressing both as a player and a character is kind of the point of the game.

Progression is all well and good when people are still running those instances. Right now, Naxxramas, OS, and Malygos are capital-D Dead. Ulduar sees some action sometimes. ToC and ICC are where all the raids are. Forcing players to run through pointless, outdated content only serves to frustrate new players and rerolls, and cockblocks people who may have been on the cutting edge in t7 but had to take a break for whatever reason.

The accomplishment of killing a boss is completely gone when said boss is available on multiple difficulties, it's no longer I've killed arthas I now have to explain with a paragraph response which Arthas exactly I killed in which instance size and which difficulty, it's completely watered down. Reaching a boss used to strike the beholder with awe and a sense of accomplishment, now that it is a certainty that sense of accomplishment is gone.

Or, you know, you could realize that old sense of awe and challenge is in the hard mode raids. Having a boss on multiple difficulties is a case of letting everyone see the current content while making sure both crowds are more-or-less happy with the result. I've noted in other threads that sure, if hardcore raiders want harder hard modes more power to them. But now it seems that isn't enough--they want their sandbox while Blizzard ignores the majority of their customer base rather than giving both sides their own sandbox to play in without either ever effecting the other except for those who get up in arms when they see people in the worst quality of the most recent obsolete tier.

Being that you met me in this thread by reading a post where I specifically said I am modest and I do not brag furthermore I am not even found in the game idling ever because I am either in arena a raid or offline I find this to be you holding some sort of prejudice against high end raiders. The only ego I have is shared with those of my guildmates about the success of the guild we created and maintain, and of course when you create something that is a success there is a certain amount of ego that comes with it.

I have no prejudice against high end raiders. My prejudice is against those people who take it as a personal insult that someone other than the people with twenty-plus hours a week to raid constantly can wear the worst set of the last tier and get into more populated content without having to slug through dead content.

Believe it or not having an ego is not the same as being in someones face and boasting constantly, you can have pride in your accomplishments while maintaining modest behavior.

If you had pride in your accomplishments only you wouldn't give two fucks what someone else accomplished or you'd congratulate them for it.

[PrettyBiased]

Or, you know, you could realize that old sense of awe and challenge is in the hard mode raids. Having a boss on multiple difficulties is a case of letting everyone see the current content while making sure both crowds are more-or-less happy with the result. I've noted in other threads that sure, if hardcore raiders want harder hard modes more power to them. But now it seems that isn't enough--they want their sandbox while Blizzard ignores the majority of their customer base rather than giving both sides their own sandbox to play in without either ever effecting the other except for those who get up in arms when they see people in the worst quality of the most recent obsolete tier.

I just told you that the sense of awe and challenge of a fresh new boss is gone, and you're telling me they are in hard mode raids. There is no unique challenge or experience between a hard mode boss and a normal mode boss, it's the same boss and once you've seen it you've seen it, and once you've beaten it you've beaten it. It honestly seems like you are not a hard mode raider, because anyone raiding them would never cite them as something someone else should enjoy.

Think of raiding as a cake, everyone wanted the cake but instead of making a huge cake that everyone could enjoy they gave all the icing to some people, all the ice cream filling to others, and left people like me with the crumbs. That's exactly what hard mode raiding is, crumbs of what raiding used to be.

[Izhara]

I just told you that the sense of awe and challenge of a fresh new boss is gone, and you're telling me they are in hard mode raids. There is no unique challenge or experience between a hard mode boss and a normal mode boss, it's the same boss and once you've seen it you've seen it, and once you've beaten it you've beaten it. It honestly seems like you are not a hard mode raider, because anyone raiding them would never cite them as something someone else should enjoy.

Think of raiding as a cake, everyone wanted the cake but instead of making a huge cake that everyone could enjoy they gave all the icing to some people, all the ice cream filling to others, and left people like me with the crumbs. That's exactly what hard mode raiding is, crumbs of what raiding used to be.

I'm not a hardmode raider. Right now health problems related to arrythmea have forced me to bow out of raiding for the time being. However, I used to raid in Vanilla and BC, my guild had made it into Naxxramas when I got burned out carrying 10 imbeciles and in BC different complications made me back out of raiding.

But that's neither here nor there. To continue with your cake analogy, Blizzard has made four cakes of similar make. However, two of them are still good-tasting cake, but not quite up to a connoisseurs refined tastes. It's the sort of cake you can find in a grocery store. The cakes come in sizes for ten and twenty-five people. The other two cakes are gourmet cake, designed for more refined taste buds and as such contain a few ingredients those who prefer the regular cake might not like, but a connoisseur would find absolutely delicious. The problem with Wrath is they did not make these gourmet cakes good enough, with this being their first attempt at making both normal recipe and gourmet in one store.

[Inb4gkick]

Think of raiding as a cake, everyone wanted the cake but instead of making a huge cake that everyone could enjoy they gave all the icing to some people, all the ice cream filling to others, and left people like me with the crumbs. That's exactly what hard mode raiding is, crumbs of what raiding used to be.

Just going to point this out for you, but your problem is that you would rather have the crumbs of an ice cream cake than the ever delicious crumbs of a pie. Pie is good all the way through, cake has icing and that's about it.