1. #1
    The Patient
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    Heals' efficiency

    From what i understand from the previews healing spells *Across classes* will go like this :

    1>>> fast ineffiecient
    2>>> medium effecient
    3>>> slow very effecient.

    ...but i just read a reply that GC made here :http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/24630...healing-touch/

    that says that healing touch will be both a large heal and an expensive heal, but isnt that exactly what they'r trying to change with our arsenal...they said it was too cubersome that we are the only class with a fast effecient and a slow expensive heal...

    maybe i dont understand or im missing something..let the gurus answer


    sry about teh spelling ^^

  2. #2

    Re: Heals' efficiency

    3>>> slow very effecient
    large heal and an expensive heal
    Notice GC didn't use the word slow about your big expensive heal.

    Imagine your big heal is 3x your medium heal, but only takes 1.5x the time to cast.
    Why not spam it all the time then? Because the mana cost is more than 3x that of your medium heal, so you'll be oom much quicker.

    Don't assume expensive == slow

  3. #3
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    Re: Heals' efficiency

    Quote Originally Posted by hlin
    Notice GC didn't use the word slow about your big expensive heal.

    Imagine your big heal is 3x your medium heal, but only takes 1.5x the time to cast.
    Why not spam it all the time then? Because the mana cost is more than 3x that of your medium heal, so you'll be oom much quicker.

    Don't assume expensive == slow
    altho true, it clarifies a few things but doesnt answer my main question...

    paladins have been healing over the course of vanilla and 2x Xpacs by a fast effecient and a <<slower>> ineffecient which by haste is by no means slow i might add.

    they said they want to change that coz we'r the only class that has that design, but what im reading about the druid changes is that we wont be the only class anymore.. except druids will be the only class .

  4. #4
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    Re: Heals' efficiency

    Btw thnx for making an account just to answer me appreciate it !

  5. #5

    Re: Heals' efficiency

    I don't think we know yet how the actual druid heals will look (other than nourish and healing touch), but i can imagine something like

    Small ineffcient heal: Lifebloom (quick ticking hot)
    medium efficient heal: Rejuvenation (and nourish)
    Large inefficient heal: Regrowth (and healing touch)

    The hots can probably be shuffled around as the devs please, and i'm not quite sure where they'll put wild growth in all this, but i imagine it will be up to talent choice if people want to boost WG or not.

    Even though druids effectively only have 2 direct heal spells, there's still plenty of healing spells (aaaaall the hots) to take into the equation.

    And np, i'm reading this everyday was about time i'd make an account :P

  6. #6
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    Re: Heals' efficiency

    Quote Originally Posted by hlin
    I don't think we know yet how the actual druid heals will look (other than nourish and healing touch), but i can imagine something like

    Small ineffcient heal: Lifebloom (quick ticking hot)
    medium efficient heal: Rejuvenation (and nourish)
    Large inefficient heal: Regrowth (and healing touch)

    The hots can probably be shuffled around as the devs please, and i'm not quite sure where they'll put wild growth in all this, but i imagine it will be up to talent choice if people want to boost WG or not.

    Even though druids effectively only have 2 direct heal spells, there's still plenty of healing spells (aaaaall the hots) to take into the equation.

    And np, i'm reading this everyday was about time i'd make an account :P
    its gonna be :
    regrowth --->small
    noursih---->medium
    HT---->large

    read it in the same post ...WG is still being worked on tho coz of the haste and how it will affect hots ...hots that have CDs especialy strong ones are problamatic

  7. #7

    Re: Heals' efficiency

    This is what people don't get, efficient =/ cheap

    slow and big heals will cost lots of mana, but will heal for the most per point of mana consumed

  8. #8
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    Re: Heals' efficiency

    Quote Originally Posted by Cjeska
    This is what people don't get, efficient =/ cheap

    slow and big heals will cost lots of mana, but will heal for the most per point of mana consumed
    but what i could never understand, after the implentation of +healing in BC does that even matter anymore ? u start getting lotsa mana and lotsa healing by a tier or 2 down the line, i understand that also the bosses become harder, but in todays model of raiding ... its not a 1;1 ratio

  9. #9

    Re: Heals' efficiency

    Quote Originally Posted by opath
    but what i could never understand, after the implentation of +healing in BC does that even matter anymore ? u start getting lotsa mana and lotsa healing by a tier or 2 down the line, i understand that also the bosses become harder, but in todays model of raiding ... its not a 1;1 ratio
    I don't really know what you are trying to say, could you rephrase that?

  10. #10
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    Re: Heals' efficiency

    Quote Originally Posted by Cjeska
    I don't really know what you are trying to say, could you rephrase that?
    in cata's raid model, where HP is high and there is no fear of dead tanks in 1 hit... also with the relative increase in mana and mana regen mechanics and the increase (read:no relative here) in healing power due to +sp then i will just use my largest heal(expensive, by their own words).. and if there is no over healing then it will be effecient...

    in other words....UR RIGHT..that model just puts us back to only 2 heals again when we get enough haste...the medium and the large heal...so i dont see the point of giving palas yet another direct healing spell.

    i know it seems im discussing several topics at once (i do that i know) but ive been healing since vanilla, and changing my quirk simply to give it to resto druids (after they said they'r changing it coz its cubersome to be the only healer with it ) is just WIERD

  11. #11

    Re: Heals' efficiency

    Quote Originally Posted by Cjeska

    slow and big heals will cost lots of mana, but will heal for the most per point of mana consumed
    No, i believe you have it backwards here.

    Efficient = more heal per mana.

    Imagine these situations:

    Under normal circumstances you can keep your tank topped off with rejuv and nourish. These are your efficient heals, meaning you get the most bang for your buck.

    Now a big damage event happens (think XT tantrum), and your tanks starts to dip heavily in health, here is where you might sacrifice some of your mana efficieny to get the tank back up to full, so you roll a healing touch on the tank (you got less healing / mana out of that move, but you brought the tank back up to full health in half the time)

    Imagine you are raid healing, and one of the mages (i play one so i can make fun of them likes to stand in shinies. He's down to 5% health, and you know there's something raidwide coming up. Here you might want to pull out your quick inefficient heal. Again you get less heals / mana for this move, but you might just have saved his behind. (And you can argue with him standing in shinies after the kill

    In the first tier, they want it to really hurt when you cast the inefficient heals, so that you only pull those out when absolutely needed. Then as we progress through cata, you'll have the luxury of being able to use your full span of spells a little more often without going oom, but not so often that you'll never cast anything else.

  12. #12
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    Re: Heals' efficiency

    Quote Originally Posted by opath
    in cata's raid model, where HP is high and there is no fear of dead tanks in 1 hit... also with the relative increase in mana and mana regen mechanics and the increase (read:no relative here) in healing power due to +sp then i will just use my largest heal(expensive, by their own words).. and if there is no over healing then it will be effecient...
    Thing is that's exactly what they DON'T want, they're going to mess around with regen and manapool/spellcost ratio's specifically so you can't just sit there spamming your biggest heal. The change to health/boss damage to make bosses not just oneshot everyone is to bring back the 'Triage' element of old school raiding, where it wasn't a case of 'keep everyone topped up or they'll get insta-gibbed' but 'okay, he can probably take one more hit, so I'll chuck a little heal to top up his mate, then drop a slightly larger heal on that other guy, oops, I forgot the tank, big emergancy heal on him, spot heal on OT' etc. a case of prioritising who need what, and using the best of all our heals for the job, not just spamming our biggest heal on everyone, regardless of Overheal, not caring about mana as we know we have enough regen to constantly spam our most expensive spells for like 3days without going Oom.

    personally I can't wait sounds like the game is gunna be getting alot more difficult, healing will require a bit of though and tanking wont just be 969696969696969696 50k AoE threat, lets just hope they do something to make Dps a little more involved.
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  13. #13

    Re: Heals' efficiency

    Quote Originally Posted by hlin
    No, i believe you have it backwards here.

    Efficient = more heal per mana.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cjeska
    ...will heal for the most per point of mana consumed
    Hmm, but thats exactly what I said

  14. #14
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    Re: Heals' efficiency

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd
    Thing is that's exactly what they DON'T want, they're going to mess around with regen and manapool/spellcost ratio's specifically so you can't just sit there spamming your biggest heal. The change to health/boss damage to make bosses not just oneshot everyone is to bring back the 'Triage' element of old school raiding, where it wasn't a case of 'keep everyone topped up or they'll get insta-gibbed' but 'okay, he can probably take one more hit, so I'll chuck a little heal to top up his mate, then drop a slightly larger heal on that other guy, oops, I forgot the tank, big emergancy heal on him, spot heal on OT' etc. a case of prioritising who need what, and using the best of all our heals for the job, not just spamming our biggest heal on everyone, regardless of Overheal, not caring about mana as we know we have enough regen to constantly spam our most expensive spells for like 3days without going Oom.

    personally I can't wait sounds like the game is gunna be getting alot more difficult, healing will require a bit of though and tanking wont just be 969696969696969696 50k AoE threat, lets just hope they do something to make Dps a little more involved.
    i hope ur right, ever since i started raiding (only did the easy raids in vanilla, srs raiding was in BC) i only healed with fol, i foled everything, thats why i was prob one of the few paladins on my server that were actualy good raid healers... would be *interesting* to see that change...but again i see us only using the medium heal after a couple of tiers...its just unavoidable coz of haste that will make it fast and SP that will make it a bit better even tho still lower than the large one

  15. #15

    Re: Heals' efficiency

    Quote Originally Posted by opath
    in cata's raid model, where HP is high and there is no fear of dead tanks in 1 hit... also with the relative increase in mana and mana regen mechanics and the increase (read:no relative here) in healing power due to +sp then i will just use my largest heal(expensive, by their own words).. and if there is no over healing then it will be effecient...

    in other words....UR RIGHT..that model just puts us back to only 2 heals again when we get enough haste...the medium and the large heal...so i dont see the point of giving palas yet another direct healing spell.

    i know it seems im discussing several topics at once (i do that i know) but ive been healing since vanilla, and changing my quirk simply to give it to resto druids (after they said they'r changing it coz its cubersome to be the only healer with it ) is just WIERD
    Too tired to go through this whole thing, but that stood out to me. It's wrong. Yes, throughput increases. What it is relative to is the incoming damage though. More damage taken, more healing put out. It is still very relative.

  16. #16
    The Patient
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    Re: Heals' efficiency

    Quote Originally Posted by Cactrot
    Too tired to go through this whole thing, but that stood out to me. It's wrong. Yes, throughput increases. What it is relative to is the incoming damage though. More damage taken, more healing put out. It is still very relative.
    i mean that the increase in mana regen is lower than the increase in SP and healing power...always been like that for me

  17. #17

    Re: Heals' efficiency

    this isn't complicated

    if BIG HEAL does 25,0000 healing per use, but costs 2000 mana, it won't be as efficient as....
    LITTLE HEAL which does 14,0000 healing per use but costs 900 mana

    but if you NEED to use big heal, you'll use BIG HEAL, otherwise there is no reason to use anything but LITTLE HEAL


    all healers will have to worry about mana (days of spamming will be over, you'll simply go oom) so all healers will have to stop overhealing.

    that's the problem a druid can do 60% overhealing and be fine. if he was OOM 1/3 of the way into the fight, then he'd have to use the appropriate heals.

  18. #18

    Re: Heals' efficiency

    Quote Originally Posted by blizzardcashshop
    this isn't complicated

    if BIG HEAL does 25,0000 healing per use, but costs 2000 mana, it won't be as efficient as....
    LITTLE HEAL which does 14,0000 healing per use but costs 900 mana
    Which will not be the case, at all.
    To give an example using your numbers:
    *big heal: 25.000hp, costs 2000mana
    *small heal: 14.000hp, costs 1200mana

    If someone lost 15k hp, you will obviously use the small heal, it's less efficient, but only needed to heal 15k anyways. Someone lost about 25k and he will not die during the time you need to cast the big heal? Use the big heal.

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