View Poll Results: Well..... are ya?

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  • Yes

    386 83.01%
  • No

    79 16.99%
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  1. #81

    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    So, does bright red text and modifying the size of text mean something to you, or do you just like making your posts harder to read for the heck of it?
    ok, see, this is the reason why I put text in red.
    from my post: ...And please pay attention to this, because you missed this like 5-10 times already,
    Does this mean anything to you? To sum up, it's to emphasize. Is that really so hard to understand?

    Honestly, here's where I stand:

    You've yet to show any evidence against what I've said. That is that GH1 was higher efficiency than H4. That FH was inefficient and low throughput.
    dude. GH1 takes 3 seconds to cast. FH takes 1.5.
    In trash, speed > efficiency, because you don't need to worry about running out of mana.
    ...that 1.5s faster outweights that in trash clearing. For Trash. If you have pay attention or even comprehend what's read, I wouldn't need to put the red text to draw your attention. Not like I enjoy wasting time putting red color stuff in. But that's like the only way for you to see it alot of times.

    That you need high FR on most fights in MC. And so on. If it's so easy to disprove, then disprove it. Claiming that guilds know better than I do is fine, but please back it up with more than hearsay.
    Lol, why don't you prove me wrong then. Simple logic, you think you know better than all guilds out there back then? I'll put $$ on *all* the raiding guilds instead of you. Nothing personal, just well, really? you need me to explain to you why that is?

    You've ignored that 'better gear' was actually T1 gear, which was MC gear. Full T1 + SP gears and 300 SP wasn't difficult in the least.
    When you balance FR with T1? especially with some slots filled by regen gear?
    ok... whatever.

    You'll also note that my original comment noted 'T2+' as being when SP was easy to obtain.
    Not saying it's hard, but not the gear intended for T1 during progression. Which is what I was talking about, gear / experience before you out-content that said content.

    The thing here is that you keep stating that something is not a big accomplishment, then making a very large deal out of the difficulty as a way to claim that the content was hard.
    To be hones, it's not *easy*, hard or not, that depends on whom you asked. It was about right to me, not too easy, not too hard. A good balance IMO.

    Just don't down-rate it because you use gear that make the content easier.

    It's nice that you can use big red text to make statements, but when the text following is contradictory all it amounts to is posturing.
    right.... is this part of your "politic debate" style? false accusations?

    No, high FR was not required for most of MC. Guilds required higher FR because there were places you would die instantly without it, not because you needed to wear it most of the time.
    Ah, then your assertion of 300+ in MC gear is just a *sometimes* you can get 300 SP, here's the red part again, so you pay attention on, when you sacrifices some stats. (say int, Fr...whatnot).

    Sacrificing stats to just boost 1 stat isn't anything new, and what's the importance of that ability of that again? To show there are variety of gear?

    You could even sacrifice everything and get high armor, high str too, but that's not the *norm* now is it?

    Which is what we are talking about, the *norm*.

    No, SP was not hard to obtain pre-AQ, or even pre-BWL. If you didn't have a good non-resist set I can understand you not being aware of this, but don't mistake that for SP sets being useless, or hard to build.
    read above.

    No, things like Heal-4, Lesser Heal of any rank, etc were not efficient, or needed. Look up the spell details yourself as well as old down-ranking mechanics, such as the level 20 rule if you want evidence.
    Yes, why don't we look up downranking history:
    Of course, I'll put stuff in red, so you know what to look for
    "Downranking described the usage of spell ranks lower than the highest one in order to increase damage or healing per mana spent, or for the use of a secondary, rank-independent effect, in trade for a lower amount of damage or healing. For healers, this was sometimes necessary to prevent overhealing. Mana reservation was the desired aim. In most circumstances, downranking is no longer a viable tactic.

    Downranking has been nerfed several times. The first time, it was nerfed so that any spell learned below level 20 suffered a penalty. Then, with patch 2.0.1, it was nerfed again so that any spell of a certain number of levels too low was nerfed.

    The most severe nerf was introduced with the release of patch 3.0.2, which caused player spells to cost a percentage of the caster's base mana, which either remained constant for all ranks or decreased with higher ranks.

    In addition to voluntary downranking, when a buff spell is cast on a character whose level is too low to receive that buff, the character will receive a downranked version of the buff instead. "


    And heal 4 wasn't nerfed until 2.0.1. It was advantageous to use it. (although, I have to note, I really don't remember when the level 20 rule was in place, /shrug)

    No, Flash Heal was not something that you should have been using. It lost in terms of throughput and efficiency to GH1.
    Read, trash. Actually, since you seemed only to take in things that red, here it is in red:
    Read, trash


    As far as 'semantics', people often get confused, or just misguided into thinking bringing up semantics, or grammar is bad.
    Interesting, do define more of this "logistic" that you mean?
    You mean it as the symbolic logic? Or the overall procedure to get the raid of 40 together?

    let's assume you mean latter:
    beyond Logistic, there are things like,
    1)priority in raid base on seniority,
    2)loots distributing rules
    3) connection quality of some players in consideration to bring player in or not.

    All those above has nothing to do with getting people there, more how a guild works and how to choose from the set resource a guild has.

    That, dear, is over and above mere, "logistics". And were part of the big reasons why 40 people raid failed. To ignore all those and band it as "logistic" is just, wrong. Or you didn't understand either "logistic" or "guild management". Take your pick.

    And very much reasons why the 40 sized failed. Getting people together is just a subset of guild management. You know, like recruiting, retaining, discipline of guild...etc.

    So, to argue semantics some more... Semantics is the study of meaning. If semantics are brought up because someone does not understand a term being used, then it's completely valid. Logistics was the main concern when raiding in Vanilla and to some extent BC.
    That's been greatly toned down and in Cata they're planning to tone it down more (10 mans drop 25 man loot, among other things).
    lalalalala... read above.

    If you know what logistics means and implies, then why would you argue that 'logistics' wasn't a problem, but 'guild management' was? I wasn't arguing semantics at all, you were. My point in bringing that up was to show how hypocritical your argument was. Though, the fact that you missed that shouldn't be surprising too me when combined with the rest of your posts.
    hypocritical? hahaha.... You are confused. Guess I should put this in red too since you can't seemed to notice all the things but red text.

    1) I really don't care if you did or did not went to MC / BWL back then
    2) If you didn't but pretend you did, then I like to point it out.
    3) *This is the important one, as this require you to take in some logic.* Since pointing it out, (aka #2) require to analyze that if you really did or not, that's why a carefully assessment is needed. And hence the importance falling on examining if you did have the experience or not, which inevitably going into the details of these stuff. Not the experience by itself is that much of important. Read it again, if you still don't understand.


    Or is this your "political debate" style at work again? :


    Oh and for being 'done', well, I have trouble keeping my mouth shut when people don't understand how to properly make an argument. It's a pet peeve, I suppose.
    Yes, I see you have trouble with alot of things. I guess keeping your mouth shut to clear the doubt was one of them. Along with inability to pay attention to anything but red text. To comprehend the post before you make a reply. To use your "political debate" style in replying. My condolence.

  2. #82

    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    Well, I'll give you this, of all the troll posters I've dealt with your posts are by far the hardest to actually read. Mostly because you like to take paragraphs apart and then discuss sections separately without context. Though the silly text highlights are amusing as I mentioned before. Also, the original level 20 penalty was added just prior to release, as detailed in my previous post.

    You have still not given a plausible defense against the following:

    - Fire resists in MC except on Rag and some trash.
    Guilds required 150-200+ FR because if you did not have those sets you would be killed instantly on some trash and require excessive healing on Rag. Melee required more for several additional fights, but healers did not have to deal with this. Tanks requires a 300-315 set to be able to tank several bosses. While this was a requirement due to that portion, it was not a requirement for the majority of MC. Many people made this mistake in assuming because high FR was required for part of MC that it should be worn for all of MC. While you could not do a full run without FR gear you should only have been wearing that gear for one boss and 5-6 trash pulls unless you had excessively low health (under 2k, roughly).

    -SP sets.
    This can be easily looked up. 300 SP is indeed possible in T1 and blues. This is a pointless discussion as the items can be looked up and verified by anyone with access to any data site. Wowhead is nice and will even sort items for you to show how these sets worked.

    -Heals used.
    Again this can be verified by looking at the values of the heals. Simply check the heal values, apply scaling values and adjust by any applicable down-ranking penalties. This means Heal rank 1, any rank of Lesser Heal, or Renew rank 1-2. Greater Heal 1 was preferred on three grounds. First it cost 370 mana, compared to the 305 of Heal 4, 380 for Flash Heal 7 and 665 for rank 4. Second was the healing itself. It sat at 981 average, Heal 4 was 780, FH 7 was 906 and rank 4 was 1.9k. GH4 was actually more efficient than lower ranks until well after MC days, but that isn't the contention here as the mana cost was prohibitive. The issue is Heal 4 vs Greater Heal 1. Greater Heal 1 heals for a good amount more and is also noticeably more efficient. Because the cost of Greater Heal 1 was not prohibitive, it was the heal of choice. In regard to Flash Heal specifically it should be noted that all these values are untalented. This means that while Heal and GH both scale together uniformly, Flash Heal did not. This meant that GH1 actually cost 315, compared to FH7 still at 380. Damage on trash pulls in MC per tank was extremely low and did not require the higher healing frequency of FH7, because of this it was better to spam GH1 the entire pull than to try and work in FH7.

    Point is you're convinced that I didn't do MC because I played differently than you in several ways. I can't prove that I did as my first Priest was deleted halfway through AQ due to my switching from Alliance to Horde. The same applies to my Hunter and first Warrior. Even if I hadn't the achievement system would only be able to show that a character got the achievement at 3.0, not dated as to when the first MC clear was recorded. At the same time you can't prove you did it either unless you had old screenshots. Personally, I'm on my fourth computer since WoW release and several formats in between, so I can't offer those either. Though, I'm sure if I could you could simply state that I looked up some old MC screenshots online to post. What you're missing is that I absolutely do not care if you believe that I ran MC or not. My guild ran it with me, my girlfriend's Rogue was there, so I could care less what someone online believes. I do take offense to the accusatory nature of your posts, but that's not why I've kept replying. My issue is performance and accuracy. You've made several claims that imply that you were not healing properly in MC/BWL and did not understand how to gear at the time. In return you've claimed that since I don't think you were healing properly that I didn't heal during them at all. Quite a leap, really.

  3. #83

    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    I like pie.

    Had a quick glance at your posts and this is the only stupid attention-seeking one you've made in awhile so I'll let it slide, but watch it ~ Ultima

  4. #84

    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    Bozwell needs to learn how to make proper sentences and arguments before anyone can take him seriously, really. Just a forum troll to me, I don't know why you keep wasting energy in replying to him when he's not doing the same to you, Harky.
    A part of MMO-Champion died the day Curse took over. Next thing they want us to pay for a premium account to read MMO-Champion and Wowpedia. I definitely see that happen one day.

  5. #85
    Fluffy Kitten Ultima's Avatar
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    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    It's the most I've ever seen harky write.

    bozwell is tuning down his annoying post traits at least, maybe you could just do it normally boz? Or at least just use italics when you wish to emphasize a word or sentence?

    (Also, if I come back and the thread is carrying on like this without links, proof or evidence etc, I will slap you, hard.)
    I heal in the Arena
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  6. #86

    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd
    Okay so I've been playing my Disc priest more and more these days, and although I love the playstyle, raid healing has gotten a bit...stale for me recently.
    This is what I dislike about healing as disc and it seems like it's a fairly common complaint so I hope things will change for them on that front.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd
    So I was talking to a friend who plays a Resto shammy about Cata, and she was saying that healing will require alot more though in Cata, not just 'keep everyone full or they'll get instagibbed' but more of a Vanilla priority system, where you need to use the best heal for the job (which wont necessarily be your biggest) on the right person, at the right time.
    See I feel that as holy I already am doing triage-style healing. I think that the "best heal for the job (and not always the biggest heal) on the right person at the right time" is a good description of holy priest healing.
    I've only healed on a druid alt and ocassionally in my disc off-spec so my perspective could change if I tried other types of healers and I'm working on that actually (I didn't play the original iteration so that doesn't figure into it for me)

    So I'll say that I'm neutral on the changes but interested to see them

  7. #87

    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    *Quote*
    Rage
    *Quote*
    Rage
    *Quote*
    Rage
    *Quote*
    Rage
    *Quote*
    Rage
    *Quote*
    Rage
    *Quote*
    Rage
    *Quote*
    Rage
    *Quote*
    Rage



    I like his style.


    Just kidding.

    *Edit* Needed some Red.

    Was a bit long, and there's enough long posts in the thread so I snipped it - it made me lol though, so objective achieved! ~ Ultima

  8. #88

    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    I've only been main specced as a healer since the end of TBC, so I've never really payed hardcore raiding with a "triage" style of healing. However, I look forward to it. As we've progressed in ICC Heroic 25, things have gotten entirely too spammy. I feel like it's hard to keep up half the time, and so confusing, even when the chaos is fun. Haha

    I look forward to a different flavor of healing, one that might even let me DPS a little.

  9. #89

    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    I do not like the triage style because if a DPS is being stupid it punishes the healer. Either by blowing mana to keep them alive or listening to them after they die. Not the healers fault but they will get the blame for it. On a positive note, letting the annoying dps die because you "need" to conserve your mana for the tank does sound enjoyable.

  10. #90
    Dreadlord
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    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malerus
    I do not like the triage style because if a DPS is being stupid it punishes the healer. Either by blowing mana to keep them alive or listening to them after they die. Not the healers fault but they will get the blame for it. On a positive note, letting the annoying dps die because you "need" to conserve your mana for the tank does sound enjoyable.
    I disagree on this point. It appears to punish the healer, because it's "his" mana, but really the idea is that triage style essentially makes healer mana a raid resource that everyone has to mana. Sure, if a healer is careless, he wastes it, but at the same time, if a DPS stands in a fire, he wastes it. It will become the responsibility of everyone to do what they can to minimize the impact on healer mana.

    Another benefit, which doesn't exist now, is that strains on healer mana can be mitigated with gear, even if skill improves little or not at all, which means tuning can be more specific, or if you can't do it at a particular gear level, maybe in a few weeks you can. For instance, a cutting-edge guild will be pretty close to the minimal raid damage going out and, thus, they'll be able to get by with less healer mana which ultimately means they can do the content in lesser gear. I less skilled guild will take somewhat more damage which will require a bit more healer mana and, thus, require somewhat higher levels of gear. The problem now is that the resource is healer GCDs, which don't provide nearly that level of flexibility. What this means is it's much more black and white about what encounters varying degrees of skill can accomplish.

    The most unfortunate part about the current system is that healing has largely evolved into a spam-fest where we're more or less follow a rotation or priority, the main difference between healing and DPS being that healing also involves a wack-a-mole aspect to that. The whole point is that healing should have a very different flavor from DPS and it isn't nearly as different now as it used to be. We shouldn't be pressing CoH or PoM every time they're off CD, but instead whenever it's the appropriate spell for the situation. The fact that it's perfectly viable, and in some cases ideal, to spam PWS, WG/Rejuv, CH, or HL, without regard to whether the target needs the heal, is sad at the level of BM Hunters and Destro Locks in BC. Skill in DPS comes out in effectively managing priorities and cooldowns, minimizing DPS lost when moving, etc., so skill in healing should come out too, through managing mana and target/spell selection.

  11. #91

    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    You also have to relise that with gear comes mana. And again people will just use big heals

  12. #92

    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd
    Okay so I've been playing my Disc priest more and more these days, and although I love the playstyle, raid healing has gotten a bit...stale for me recently. So I was talking to a friend who plays a Resto shammy about Cata, and she was saying that healing will require alot more though in Cata, not just 'keep everyone full or they'll get instagibbed' but more of a Vanilla priority system, where you need to use the best heal for the job (which wont necessarily be your biggest) on the right person, at the right time. This got me really excited about healing in cata, and I was just wondering if my excitment was shared by other priest, or if I'm just mental
    I was quite excited about this too, the whole "Overheals" thing was a turn-off for me, I went dps for WotLK.

    Glad I can go back heals again


    Quote Originally Posted by Renowned View Post
    Oh, and I used to get turned on by well executed CC in dungeons, before 4.2.

  13. #93

    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    Ol' good times
    “I is the king of Rome, and above grammar”
    ~ Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor on Grammar

  14. #94
    Legendary! seam's Avatar
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    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzie
    I've been playing a priest in vanilla and bc. I quit is in wotlk because it didn't seem nearly as fun.

    Shortly, I'm sure many priests will share the excitement
    This.
    Avatar done by my friend Crystal<3

  15. #95

    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    Eh, people over-simplify a lot of things. They think because you have 60% or more from one thing that you're just mashing that one button, or something. The only class right now that should really be using a single healing spell is Paladin, but they have the most cooldowns to manage of any healer. They're actually the only class that uses less than 4 heals.

    Druid (raid): Rejuv, Wild Growth, Swiftmend, Nourish
    Druid (tank): Nourish, Regrowth, Rejuv, Lifebloom, Swiftmend
    Shaman: Chain Heal, Riptide, Earth Shield, LHW
    Disc (raid): PW:S, PoM, Penance, PoH, BH, FH
    Disc (tank): PW:S, PoM, Penance, BH, GH, FH
    Holy: Renew, PoH, PoM, CoH, BH, FH

    Shaman use HW and Holy uses GH, but not very often at all.

    You can get by with 1-2 buttons, but you won't be doing a good job. You'll just be proving that content is under-tuned.
    Binding heal is shit m8... and nowhere in the world would discs ever think about pushing Greater heal, Even for raids, disc is pretty much 4 buttoms...

  16. #96
    The Patient Kaeyoss's Avatar
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    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    Hell NO.

    Micro-managin mana = NO
    Having to think about every heal you cast = NO


    I healed a bit in BC, and more in wrath. And have heard nothing but horror stories about healing in vanilla and BC(i absolutely HATED healing in BC)

    I fully intend on deleting every single healing spec on every single one of my toons in cataclysm.

  17. #97
    High Overlord Qelkhandras's Avatar
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    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart
    Because druids only have one spell??
    ¬¬

    No we dont, but currently on 264-277 gear, you can actually set up Healbot/Grid/Vudoo and Clique or a macro, and then just passing from a MMORPG to a Counter strike mode, where is about of how many 40secs dots can i mantain on people at the same time, and rock RC meter just mantaining +15 icons rolling, and WG on CD every damm time. If its too heavy?? Here, have a one more hot, thats it. Fact is, that you actually have VERY little thinking involved on spell choosing, given the fact that having 8345645924 HASTE + 783261269 Mana regen, makes it that if you fail to choose (say Rejuv when you should have casted Nourish or even a Healing Touch, wich by the way, hardly remember when was the las time i could use it w/o making it instant, because its almost imposible to alow 2.5 sec cast on ANYONE or they are dead) isnt penalized as it should, if you are a bad healer, you should be penalized, BIG TIME, so you learn when/why/how to use each and all of your healing repertoire on the spellbook.

    No, we wont turn into Arcane mages pal, we´ll JUST have to actually LOOK at our mana, and learn to MANAGE it, its not that hard, same thing goes for warriors in Cat, right now, a bluis-geared/Naxx warrior its like "lol i have zero rage every damm GCD" so it sucks, then you get ICC gear, and rage wich SHOULD BE MANAGED, because the bars are there to administer them, they are not cosmetics, becomes almost INFINITE, so warriors are like HI,I KILL YOU! I KILL YOU TILL YOU ARE DEAD! in a ICC fight most of the times.

    Its not Wack-a-Frame you see, its healing. If in need to wack buttons, roll a Ret Pally, and use CLRet. ;D
    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho
    so if bolvar is on fire how is he in the frozen throne shouldnt it melt cause hes on fire and fire is hot so the frozen throne which is made of ice and is cold shouldnt it melt
    Apparently Physics applies where we are cows that become chickens then becomes cats then do you /kill and /lololololol.....yep. ^^
    Quote Originally Posted by SPF18
    If Bolvar turns out to be a dragon, I'll put a pancake on my face and wave at traffic for 10 minutes.
    God, if you can hear me, make it to be a dragon...
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectro
    dude where have you been? we´ve porn streaming websites now!

  18. #98

    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    Quote Originally Posted by bozwell
    ...
    1- Well, surely you are showing to be a "really old school" player, but vanilla WASN'T about MC/Pre-MC only and you should really know it, you are saying something that may have been correct for like 1/4 of the vanilla content, wich is the minority.

    2- Using random useless skills for trash doesn't mean "oh healers had tons of buttons to smash", i could spam every single heal i had back in the days on trash, but surely it wasn't effective healing but more of a "fun healing" so yes, FH sucked, and claiming that was usable on trash doesn't mean it was viable on some aspects of the game.

    3- Healing in Vanilla was incredibly boring, downranking was a sort of exploit to manage your mana, wich is why blizz implemented spells like FH, GH, PoM, Renew, BH, CoH, PoH, Penance, these are all usefull tools for a good healer, noone of them is useless and they are situational, much more buttons to smash than in Vanilla.

    4- The only difference is the Mana management, delete the "infinite mana" mechanics, and here you have your triage style healing back, it's not really hard to understand it, downranking is stupid, you have plenty of skills to use now if you can use your brain; spamming your best heal only is actually viable, but it won't be anymore in cata (hopefully).




  19. #99

    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    I have every healing class and let me tell you it does get boring, so i'm excited that there going to change things up ;D

  20. #100
    Dreadlord
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    Re: Are you excited about the return of 'Triage' style healing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hópe-Terenas
    Binding heal is shit m8... and nowhere in the world would discs ever think about pushing Greater heal, Even for raids, disc is pretty much 4 buttoms...
    First off, Binding Heal is fine. It heals for twice as much as Flash Heal in the same amount of time, which is useful if you need healing. Sure, it's less healing than PoH, CoH, PoM, and Penance, but generally, if you need healing, there's no reason not to use it.

    And why wouldn't Disc use Greater Heal for tank healing? Sure, it's more expensive, but mana is a non-issue for at higher gear levels, and even still, it's trivial to get to Improved Healing to make it more mana efficient. Further, FH GCD caps with BT up at a very low amount of Haste, so GH scales better with the amount of Haste you'll have on your gear at higher levels.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeyoss
    Hell NO.

    Micro-managin mana = NO
    Having to think about every heal you cast = NO


    I healed a bit in BC, and more in wrath. And have heard nothing but horror stories about healing in vanilla and BC(i absolutely HATED healing in BC)

    I fully intend on deleting every single healing spec on every single one of my toons in cataclysm.
    So let me get this straight... you don't like managing mana and you don't like thinking about what spell to cast? What the hell do you do now? Are you a Pally that spams HL, or a Druid that only casts Rejuv/WG, or a Shaman that spams CH, or a Disc that spams PWS? God, that's got to be boring as all hell.

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