Recklessness, Defensive stance etc.

[Deleted]

I'm I the only one thinking that some of the warriors abilities are quite outdated? I mean, at the top of my I can only think of warriors having abilites/cooldowns that gives a negative effect. Examples:

Defensive stance - -5% dmg, now I would like to know why this is, since no other tank gets something negatve from switching to tank fast.
Recklessness - +20% dmg taken for 3 crits, this is just absurd, really no other classes has something even remotely similar, and it's on a 5min cooldown (unless you've specced into Intensify Rage)
Death Wish - +5% dmg taken, what's with all this extra dmg we're supposed to take? :s
Shield Wall - It's mostly inferior to the other tanks corresponding ability.
etc.

Now I realise that blizzard shouldn't just give all classes the same abilities, it just doesn't seem fair that the warrior class is the only one getting a negative effect on most of our good cds/abilites. Well, qq out.

[Cathercy]

You just may be the only one.

[Maven]

Defensive stance - -5% dmg, now I would like to know why this is, since no other tank gets something negatve from switching to tank fast.

Because no other tanks can switch maybe?

[Gravion]

Divine Plea - You gain 25% of your total mana over 15 sec, but the amount healed by your Flash of Light, Holy Light, and Holy Shock spells is reduced by 50%.

Blood Presence - Strengthens the Death Knight with the presence of blood, increasing damage by 15% and healing the Death Knight by 4% of damage dealt.
Frost Presence - The death knight takes on the presence of frost, increasing Stamina by 8%, armor contribution from cloth, leather, mail and plate items by 60%, and reducing damage taken by 8%. Increases threat generated. (Effectively losing out on 15% damage)

Aspect of the Pack - The hunter and raid members within 40 yards take on the aspects of a pack of cheetahs, increasing movement speed by 30%. If you are struck under the effect of this aspect, you will be dazed for 4 sec.

Divine Shield - Protects the paladin from all damage and spells for 12 sec, but reduces all damage you deal by 50%. Once protected, the target cannot be targeted by Divine Shield, Divine Protection, or Hand of Protection again for 2 min. Cannot be used within 30 sec.

Arcane Power - When activated, your spells deal 20% more damage while costing 20% more mana to cast. This effect lasts 15 sec.

Dispersion - You disperse into pure Shadow energy, reducing all damage taken by 90%. You are unable to attack or cast spells, but you regenerate 6% mana every 1 sec for 6 sec. Dispersion can be cast while stunned, feared or silenced and clears all snare and movement impairing effects when cast, and makes you immune to them while dispersed.

Divine Intervention - The paladin sacrifices <himself/herself> to remove the targeted party member from harm's way. Enemies will stop attacking the protected party member, who will be immune to all harmful attacks but will not be able to take any action for 3 min.

wat

Yeah... warriors are not the only class with double-edged cooldowns.

[Khaato]

Because no other tanks can switch maybe?

DKs? Or maybe you meant something else...

[OnlineSamantha]

Defensive Stance is due to PvP (I think..). And warriors in general are very berserker-ish, meaning they attack fast, and with impressive damage, but they also take a lot of damage, since they rely on heavy damage, but not on defense.

[eymannenbrush]

Defensive stance is equal to bearform, and Frost presence, both which reduce your damage. If not on paper then in reality.
Recklessness is about taking a chance, or making a good decision where you're supposed to get a kill or some burst on a boss. It's all about trivializing the gameplay for YOU and not making all buttons spammable without any consideration.
Death Wish makes you take more damage due to the fact that warriors are supposed to be fearless and RECKLESS (no pun intended) fighters who sacrifice everything to win a fight. I guess its the same for recklessness.
Shield Wall can actually be quite superior compared to the other abilities, I'll list 'em below;
Divine Protection - 50% Reduced damage but for 5 seconds less than Shield Wall. Also gives Forbearance which stops you from using some other OHSHIT buttons. Does Last Stand and Shield Wall share cooldowns?
Icebound Fortitude - I'm not sure about this since I'm not playing a DK myself but I think its 40% aswell with the glyph.
Barkskin - 1 Min Cooldown BUT only 20% reduced damage, inferior during things like Soul Reaper but however reducing more damage overall in a bossfight.


Sup?

[Deleted]

Divine Plea - You gain 25% of your total mana over 15 sec, but the amount healed by your Flash of Light, Holy Light, and Holy Shock spells is reduced by 50%.
Blood Presence - Strengthens the Death Knight with the presence of blood, increasing damage by 15% and healing the Death Knight by 4% of damage dealt.
Frost Presence - The death knight takes on the presence of frost, increasing Stamina by 8%, armor contribution from cloth, leather, mail and plate items by 60%, and reducing damage taken by 8%. Increases threat generated. (Effectively losing out on 15% damage)
Aspect of the Pack - The hunter and raid members within 40 yards take on the aspects of a pack of cheetahs, increasing movement speed by 30%. If you are struck under the effect of this aspect, you will be dazed for 4 sec.

wat

I see your point, but for Death knights it's not really a negative effect on the ability at all, they just switch to survive better. Well if you compare all of the CDs that increases dmg, or otherwise improve dmg done, warriors still lose :f

Defensive stance is equal to bearform, and Frost presence, both which reduce your damage. If not on paper then in reality.
Recklessness is about taking a chance, or making a good decision where you're supposed to get a kill or some burst on a boss. It's all about trivializing the gameplay for YOU and not making all buttons spammable without any consideration.
Death Wish makes you take more damage due to the fact that warriors are supposed to be fearless and RECKLESS (no pun intended) fighters who sacrifice everything to win a fight. I guess its the same for recklessness.
Shield Wall can actually be quite superior compared to the other abilities, I'll list 'em below;
Divine Protection - 50% Reduced damage but for 5 seconds less than Shield Wall. Also gives Forbearance which stops you from using some other OHSHIT buttons. Does Last Stand and Shield Wall share cooldowns?
Icebound Fortitude - I'm not sure about this since I'm not playing a DK myself but I think its 40% aswell with the glyph.
Barkskin - 1 Min Cooldown BUT only 20% reduced damage, inferior during things like Soul Reaper but however reducing more damage overall in a bossfight.


Sup?

Yeah yeah, the lore and what not, fact of the matter is we still take extra dmg where no other class does the same for popping their abilites, this is especially important when playing pvp.

[eymannenbrush]

Yeah yeah, the lore and what not, fact of the matter is we still take extra dmg where no other class does the same for popping their abilites, this is especially important when playing pvp.

You might be the only class that takes more damage in PvP when using one of your cooldowns, but like someone before me said, alot of abilities have negating effects due to balance.
Do you want every mage who pops Water Elemental to take 20% more damage for 10 seconds? That kind of homogenization removes the whole purpose of actually choosing a class.
You chose a warrior because of something, I don't know why but you did. Every class has ups and downs, that's just how this game works.

Also, complaining about warriors abilities to perform in PvP is quite pathetic, due to being one of the 3 most viable classes in 3v3 and 5v5 arena.


EDIT: Messed up post, fixed.

[Gravion]

I see your point, but for Death knights it's not really a negative effect on the ability at all, they just switch to survive better. Well if you compare all of the CDs that increases dmg, or otherwise improve dmg done, warriors still lose :f

What about the other abilities I mentioned?

[Deleted]

What about the other abilities I mentioned?

What? I said: "I see your point" as in, okay those might have negative aspects to them aswell, and then I went on: "But for Death knights...".

*Edit*

Anyway, my point that I was trying to get to with this thread is that the -dmg +dmg taken aspects of the abilities seems a bit outdated, I don't really see a reason for them to be there, especially not in the case of Recklessness.

[eymannenbrush]

Anyway, my point that I was trying to get to with this thread is that the -dmg +dmg taken aspects of the abilities seems a bit outdated, I don't really see a reason for them to be there, especially not in the case of Recklessness.

Then every class should have an ability that almost guarantees 3 crits in a row every 5 mins that requires no talent points.
Recklessness is probably one of the most powerful PvP-abilities in the game when used in conjunction with proccs and for example a HoJ from your paladin healer (EXAMPLE), its obvious that it should have some downside.

I think you're ignoring the whole fact that Recklessness side effect is there to make YOU take a decision if you can risk having the buff up while trying to take a kill or get some burst in.
I guess thinking is to hard these days.

[Pingu]

All the points stated in the OP is what makes a Warrior, a Warrior. The increased damage taken from Death Wish and Recklessness is to make sure, you make a decision, not just a button that you press before you go into combat. In all seriousness, If we removed the increased damage mechanic, you can't really call Death wish, Death wish anymore. Or Recklessness in that case.

If there was one ability I would nick pick. It would be recklessness. For a 5 minute cooldown ability, and only granting 3 crits is a little lacking. Usually you'll use up all 3 charges in less than 5 seconds. Makes you feel like something else is meant to happen.

[eymannenbrush]

If there was one ability I would nick pick. It would be recklessness. For a 5 minute cooldown ability, and only granting 3 crits is a little lacking. Usually you'll use up all 3 charges in less than 5 seconds. Makes you feel like something else is meant to happen.

Making your 3 next abilities crit is a godly ability, thats basically removing the RNG from yourself and making you able to KNOW that you will crit on 3 abilities lets you decide the next step before it even happens.
In PvE, its a weak ability.
In Pvp, its amazing.

[JustintimeSS]

Jeez, another comparison thread.

Reroll.


































Please.