Most Fair Loot System

[rknDA1337]

EPGP as long as it's kept clean (i.e 20% removal each month or something, dunno long since i used it)

[mordrac]

the best system would be a tweaked need vs greed.

1. only people that have the proper armorclass can need
2. when the item was needed before and won, only greed is allowed every other time

won items could easily stored in an array, and it would prevent ninja looting, or others rolling for friends.
everyone need to think about if he want to keep his roll.

[ohnobees]

GDKP

[Daez]

Unfortunately, it is the case in the vast majority of guilds that the guild master(s) and his select few friends normally run how loot is handled. They are out to gear themselves at the expense of everyone else. That is a REAL problem with Loot Council especially.

Honestly, I look to see the rise of 10 man guilds remove the long standing loot systems. I know for a fact that I will never bother with 25 man content in Cataclysm. I wouldn't be surprised if the 10 man raiding guilds in each guild split into separate guilds because its been a long standing tradition for the guild master to form his group to be the most oped.

[Ferm-perm]

I like what my guild has-EPGP with a loot council full of very intelligent and wise people

[bak00777]

i have nvr heard of Suicide Kings, how does that work?

[Mindmaker]

Nothing is the most fair; they all have their pros and cons.

[Jothrazz]

Loot lists.

People send in a list of 10 items numbered from item they want the most to least. Whoever has the said piece that dropped highest on their list gets it. If there's a tie you have a roll off. Spreads loot around equally, and you get the items you want the most the fastest (dfo anyone? )

[Paladin885]

DKP is good when going from the ground up but once you're at the top the system because economically retarded. Loot distribution goes for minimal pts and by the time you get to the final boss everyone is betting max amounts. so unless you start the week at pts cap your chances of getting that weapon off KZ/Yogg/LK isnt going to happen.


The most fair system to date that I know of is EPGP. Distribution of pts works like DKP but is divided by gear rating (not gs) so that the ratio for a BiS player who raids every night for a month is lower than someone who raids just as much in ilvl 251 gear. I like this because instead of worrying about who has how many dkp pts now I just got to worry about myself and how much I have raided and attended as opposed to the others bidding on an item I want/need. Of course main spec out weighs offspec in the system so there is no way (unless loot masters changes it) that it can be ninja'd by a loot whore so thats a win too. The only difference my guild does is loot counciling on tier drops. its still EP-based but if 2 bid on one and one of the two has received two pieces already then the other will get it. If both have two pieces and are bidding for a 3rd, the one with the highest ep gets it.

[Daez]

1. only people that have the proper armorclass can need

Dear fellow player, as a raiding Boomkin I would LOVE to wear leather. However, Blizzard has failed time and time again to make leather well balanced and easily obtainable as compared to cloth. Trust me, I do not wear cloth because I want to. I wear cloth because Blizzard has given me no other choice. I would implore you to petition Blizzard on my behalf and beg them to stop failing so badly at itemization.

UNTIL THEN, STFU! SERIOUSLY! This has gotten old already. I can assure you, Boomkins and Elementals don't take cloth gear because they want to. Mastery won't even solve the problem. What will solve the problem is Blizzard learning how to properly allocate and distribute leather and mail dps gear.

[Daez]

Loot lists.

People send in a list of 10 items numbered from item they want the most to least. Whoever has the said piece that dropped highest on their list gets it. If there's a tie you have a roll off. Spreads loot around equally, and you get the items you want the most the fastest (dfo anyone? )

I like this idea.

The real problem is that Blizzard fails to realize that no one wants gear that is not best in slot. They throw way to much junk gear on bosses. I would love to see them extend the new honor/valor points system in Cataclysm and have bosses drop items that are needed to craft gear and recipes for crafted gear.

[jagr5410]

I'm the dkp officer in my guild and I like our system. We use zero sum dkp with set item amounts. This also let's people have negative dkp. The benefit is people choose how they spend it and only get dkp when loot is distributed not on boss kills.

The negative amount gives new recruits a chance at gear as well. To counteract this we use a 3 week initiate period for recruits where full raiders get priority. This let's us see if a person will fit before we dump loot into them and it makes sure people don't just join take loot and leave.

I find this system best because people can't get upset about loot, only mad at themselves for not showing up consistently or spending dkp on loot they didn't want. They get mad at the system not at officers.

We also use a seperate table for offspec pieces

[nethariel.]

People send in a list of 10 items numbered from item they want the most to least. Whoever has the said piece that dropped highest on their list gets it. If there's a tie you have a roll off. Spreads loot around equally, and you get the items you want the most the fastest

great idea, my list (and the list of other melee's that are not stupid as hell) would look like this
1. weapon (according to bis-list)
2. trinket1 (according to bis-list)
3. trinket2 (")
4. armor, depending on what's the most upgrade

i don't think this would work out like you plan it, in the end there'll be 5-6 items everyone has top on his list and it'll feel totally like /rnd

/e:

1. only people that have the proper armorclass can need

gawd... /palm

[evan_s]

Have to define what fair is before you can answer the question and since there isn't a set definition for fair there isn't a set answer.

Beyond that, every option you gave for the poll is open to differences based on individual implementations.

DKP- Is it a fixed price or bidding for drops? How do you determine how many points to awarded, fixed or based on the loot that dropped? What system, if any do you use to fight inflation? How do you handle off set pieces? etc etc etc.

[Olarin7th]

"Most Fair" Loot System if VERY subjective and depends on the guild/people involved.

For Small(10man) or Cutting Edge Progression Guilds Loot Council often works well.
In the case of small guilds with the smaller player base there is often a lot more familiarity and camaraderie among members and people will more naturally want the loot to go where it's more useful as a whole to them. With the hardcore progression guilds of the "highly dedicated" in nature they often times know ahead of time what loot will go where if it drops and decisions aren't made so much at the kill.

For the guilds in between DKP/EPGP/Suicide Kings and such tend to work better because they can reward the "effort" put in when it comes to loot.
Note that guilds will almost always have to modify the basic rule to suit their needs.

So it's not "Most Fair Loot System" you should be asking but "Given our situation what system works best?"

[HavocLock]

I've been in guilds with DKP, Suicide Kings, and officers loot council.

DKP was okay except that it could easily be manipulated by those that have been around the longest.

Suicide Kings was pretty fair, except for when it came to newer people and off-spec. There were raids where my biggest upgrade was much later in the raid so while I didn't suicide, a person brand new to the guild cleaned house and got 4 items in one run. Of course, my item never dropped. Also, if your guild requires you to suicide for off-spec it really sucks. One thing I really like is the ability to separate lists, such as tier vs. other gear. SKS can be the best option if you implement some additional balances.

My current guild does loot council. This has been pretty painful so far since I was not part of their crew from when they started. I keep getting passed up for upgrades and it's getting old. Any time you add subjectivity to rewards, it's gets messy and the fact that the council votes are secretive makes it that much more aggravating. You really need to have an impartial council that understands the classes they will be voting on.

Also one of the first guilds I was in did the whole "gear tanks and heals first" and then the dps can roll for the rest. Sigh....

[Jothrazz]

great idea, my list (and the list of other melee's that are not stupid as hell) would look like this
1. weapon (according to bis-list)
2. trinket1 (according to bis-list)
3. trinket2 (")
4. armor, depending on what's the most upgrade

i don't think this would work out like you plan it, in the end there'll be 5-6 items everyone has top on his list and it'll feel totally like /rnd

you see... It does work for us. Sure sometimes one or two items might be high on everyones list. But... On the other hand people could put items that would be thought to be low on lists and put them up high. And the way we have it working right now is a list for first 7 bosses and a 2nd list for last 5

[Googolplex]

Officers usually like Loot Council, as does their friends - everyone else prefer DKP or something different...

Coincidence ? I think not!

[emni]

I think a variation of DKP modified to fit your guild's needs is the best solution.

My guild had established the following:
* All items have fixed costs; hunters and TG warriors have modified costs on weapons to fit their gearing needs

* Every member is awarded DKP for showing up on time, a certain amount for every hour they stay, and then eventually a bonus if they stay all the way till the end

* Loot is awarded to the person who needs it and has highest DKP; however, main specc has priority over offspecc so you won't be eligible for an item that isn't main specc for you if someone else needs it for their main specc.

* After a raid, everyone's negative DKP (caused by acquiring expensive items) is reset to zero. This encourages people to compete for offspecc gear once they've gotten an expensive main specc item and are under 0 anyway. It most importantly prevents anyone from ending up in "DKP hell".

It has worked like a charm.

[Paladin885]

lol 30 people currently say Loot Council... wtf are they smoking?


So the fate of you 30's or so upgrade is based of someone of some people's decision of yes/no? i cant tell you how many flaws I see in that.