Death Knight Tanks using DPS gear as a Bear does

[Thundercougr]

It would allow a bit less RNG, in that some Plate tank gear has Block Value on it and it would eliminate this for DKs. Admittedly, Blizzard has gotten better about this, as there is much less BV on plate in ICC. I'm also aware they are changing block in Cata, so we might not see it anyways. However, this topic is about DK tanks using DPS gear as Ferals do.

The plus sides are that we'd be a bit more flexible in that we could do decent DPS in tank gear when need-be (Although you'd certainly want to switch to DPS gear[Enchants/gems] in a min-max situation such as progression, hardmodes, etc), and as a result be more versatile. We also would be a bit easier to gear up as DPS gear seems to be more abundant than tank gear

The downsides are that it would create balance issues due to the avoidance on tank gear, and we all know DKs haven't exactly been stable in the balance department until as-of-late.

If you vote no, please explain your reason in an intelligent manner.

[taters]

no because its bad enough that a feral druid tank can do great damage and still have awsome survivability... if dks were like that aswell i'd probably ragequit over the OPness of it all

[Sintakus]

No, that would be just stupid. Would you want a pally tank using spell power gear for more damage? A warrior tank with dps gear? we already cant use shields why go all the way with it and fuck us over more? Avoidance would be a big issue. Putting it on dps gear would gimp plate dpsers.

[theomegapoint]

A DK who tanks in DPS is gear is a bad tank. Healer mana will be much more of an issue in Cataclysm, and having abysmal avoidance in comparison to other tanks would make him the dreaded mana sponge.

[snodge]

No, just no...

[DerSenf]

Avoidance would be a big issue. Putting it on dps gear would gimp plate dpsers.

Not only that. It would create a fourth type of plate gear, lets call it "DK-gear". Ever been in a 10-man raid without paladins and only spellpower plate drops? Would be much worse if there was Dk-only-plate.

[Togarox]

Not only that. It would create a fourth type of plate gear, lets call it "DK-gear". Ever been in a 10-man raid without paladins and only spellpower plate drops? Would be much worse if there was Dk-only-plate.

I dont think he was saying they could add DK only plate I think he was pretty much saying that DK's should be able to tank in dps gear.

[bennyv]

I think the biggest issue is that the option to wear offset tanking gear from other classes will always be there. Bears have no option but to wear DPS gear because that's all that there is. If DK tanking was viable in DPS plate imagine how overpowered they'd be in tanking plate.

Itemization issues, so, no.

[Umbralux]

Why fix something that's not broken?

[Soaks]

No thanks. I think that niche is something the druids should keep for themselves.

[charrge]

as a DK i woudnt like this one bit..obviously dps gear is more abundant - you only need 2-3 tanks per raid not 8, so chances are if a tank item drops once or twice then it doesnt need to drop anymore for your raid, whereas a dps item may be needed more than once or twice

dps isnt a concern when tanking, so if youre trying to do good numbers and tank at the same time thats just retarded

there would literally be no change or point in wearing dps gear, its got less stamina and probably less armor..so why the hell would you do that?

this thread just makes zero sense imo

[Astray]

For bears there were three possible ways to solve the gear problem:

1. make them use dps gear for tanking
2. make extra feral tank gear
3. make them wear def-plate xD

and the best compromise was taken.

DKs can wear all the tank stuff. Perfect solution. Why change perfect to a foul compromise?

It ready this:

"hey, what you think about Dks doing BaM! in tankgear?"
In Cata, there will be the blood tree and own special blood talents an the vengeance mastery to solve the dps problem. Tanks should be at 50% of all dpsers dps (says blizz)

So what do you want?

a) doing same dps and having same defense as other tanks?
b) doing more dps and having same defense as other tanks?
c) doing more dps and having less defense as other tanks?

And next thing: will your make dks unable to wear def plate than?
If you had the same defense in dps gear as a warrior in def gear, why not equip def gear instead and have even more defense? So this needs to be "locked".

a) wanna b imba
b) 2 foul compromises for the same result
______________________________________________________

Just ~ no. If you like more dps when you overgear content, just use dps items like everybody else does.

[Thundercougr]

A DK who tanks in DPS is gear is a bad tank. Healer mana will be much more of an issue in Cataclysm, and having abysmal avoidance in comparison to other tanks would make him the dreaded mana sponge.

Not only that. It would create a fourth type of plate gear, lets call it "DK-gear". Ever been in a 10-man raid without paladins and only spellpower plate drops? Would be much worse if there was Dk-only-plate.

No, that would be just stupid. Would you want a pally tank using spell power gear for more damage? A warrior tank with dps gear? we already cant use shields why go all the way with it and fuck us over more? Avoidance would be a big issue. Putting it on dps gear would gimp plate dpsers.

I wonder if people like you even bother to read the topic. I would hope that if it were changed to where DKs used DPS gear to tank as Druids do, that they would change talents/abilities to utilize this. How would this be "fucking us over" if they did change it to be properly utilized? Obviously they wouldn't put traditional tank stats on DPS gear. Did they do it with leather for Bears? Not to mention it should be a positive change considering we can't use shields as you stated, and I'm pretty sure DPS gear isn't assuming you have a shield (As some Tank gear is).

When DKs were released, we pretty much were "parry tanks". Warriors were "all-around", Paladins were "block", and Druids were "sponges". Considering how DKs had both 10% parry from Blade Barrier and of course Forceful Deflection giving us more Parry, this is where my statement comes from. Now, a DK Tank utilizing DPS gear in the same fashion a Bear does...we could very well gain avoidance from the DPS stats. Just like a bear does. Bears gain large amounts of dodge from Agility; Forceful Deflection could very well be scaled to give us a large amount of Parry from Strength as it already does. Blizzard has stated they were unhappy with the way Parry works anyways (giving increased attack speed), so the increased-speed portion could be removed thus making Parry simply an straight-avoidance stat, as Dodge already is.


I'm not saying for this to implemented currently or for anyone to try to tank in DPS gear (As some of you OBVIOUSLY think I do mean). I'm posting this in a theoretical manner, while also theorizing that talents/abilities would be reflected to properly utilize the "new" gear, in the same way a Bear does.

[Thundercougr]

For bears there were three possible ways to solve the gear problem:

1. make them use dps gear for tanking
2. make extra feral tank gear
3. make them wear def-plate xD

and the best compromise was taken.

DKs can wear all the tank stuff. Perfect solution. Why change perfect to a foul compromise?

It ready this:

"hey, what you think about Dks doing BaM! in tankgear?"
In Cata, there will be the blood tree and own special blood talents an the vengeance mastery to solve the dps problem. Tanks should be at 50% of all dpsers dps (says blizz)

So what do you want?

a) doing same dps and having same defense as other tanks?
b) doing more dps and having same defense as other tanks?
c) doing more dps and having less defense as other tanks?

And next thing: will your make dks unable to wear def plate than?
If you had the same defense in dps gear as a warrior in def gear, why not equip def gear instead and have even more defense? So this needs to be "locked".

a) wanna b imba
b) 2 foul compromises for the same result
______________________________________________________

Just ~ no. If you like more dps when you overgear content, just use dps items like everybody else does.

You act as if I'm posting this to increase tank DPS. I did not say such thing. I did say "do decent dps WHEN NEED BE", however. This is more towards certain fights where a tank has nothing to do really due to tank switches, such as Festergut. "DKs can wear all the tank stuff. Perfect solution.". Wrong. Did you happen to forget where I stated the portion about some plate gear having block value?

How exactly does block value help Death Knights, again? DKs not using Plate Tank gear would allow more usage of Block Value instead of them essentially being scared to put it on Plate gear since 1 of the 3 Plate Tanks cannot benefit from BV.

[Derlan]

Dunno if this has been said but block value is not going to be on gear soon enough, problem solved!

[Astray]

You act as if I'm posting this to increase tank DPS. I did not say such thing.

let me think...ah

This is more towards certain fights where a tank has nothing to do really due to tank switches, such as Festergut.

Situational DPS increase. I understand , its not "i want more dps" its "i want more dps sometimes". Big difference. I'm sorry.

"DKs can wear all the tank stuff. Perfect solution.". Wrong. Did you happen to forget where I stated the portion about some plate gear having block value?

How exactly does block value help Death Knights, again? DKs not using Plate Tank gear would allow more usage of Block Value instead of them essentially being scared to put it on Plate gear since 1 of the 3 Plate Tanks cannot benefit from BV.

How about.

- reforging
- put block on t-sets instead of offset gear

Why not the most simple solution? Your idea will cause a chain of consequent problems.

Let me ask: What would prevent dks from using tank gear anyway?

I can imagine the tooltip from that passive talent

[Weird Talent]
The dodge and parry rating on plate gear, rings and necklances does not work on deathknights. Instead dodge and parry rating are gained from crit- and hasterating. Gems and enchants still work, trinkets as well.
This is made so dks are not confused about block rating on gear.

[Shiira]

Druids get to tank in dps leather because the alternative is making tank leather that nothing else would want.

Dks have to tank in tank plate because there are three specs that use it.

[Offhand]

There's a whole host of problems with that idea, some of which have already been mentioned.

1) DK's would need to be balanced around dps but then become OP when using tank gear.

Obviously, if you're designed to tank in dps, then the boss encounters will be designed around you doing so. If you start wearing tank gear, then your survivability will shoot up in health and armor respects, as well as avoidance. Dk's are balanced around not wearing a shield at the moment, and because of that it's impossible for a DK to wear one. Imagine giving DKs another 9k armor on top of what they currently possess.

2) Plate gear is already got heavier competition then tank gear. No point in mincing words. A tank has to compete with, at best, 2 other people in the raid. Whereas a plate dps will probably end up competing against more people. I know my raids routinely run as many as 5 plate dps. Plate dps is incredibly popular already, increasing competition for gear would just piss people off.

3) Vengeance appears to already fix the problem you have. Not like DK's had any threat issues to begin with, with IT hitting as hard as a shield slam nowadays (threatwise).

[Wingwraith]

Um... but I already tank in mostly dps gear..

[Shelly]

Please point out this massive amount of BiS tanking gear with shield block rating of which there is no equivalent version.