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  1. #41

    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    Quote Originally Posted by russykh
    Also on the armoury one of your tanks is wearing an epic helm. Seems odd that he would log out wearing the rest of his blue raiding gear but change his helm. I know its a low level epic, but if he was wearing it for toc, you cant really say cleared with raid fully in blues.
    Who?

    He's probably an engineer. We are allowed to use profession perks. Epic head for engineers, shoulder enchant for scribes (non-scribes can only use the blue SoH enchant), Dragon's Eyes for Jewelcrafters (non-JCs need to use blue quality gems), etc.
    Ardoric Sollis Ardodeath. Proud pet collector

    Ardoric <Undergeared> Raiding in blues 'cause gear is overrated (8/12 ICC 10 | 3/4 RS 10)

    Quote Originally Posted by ardoRic
    You argue that you need gear to compensate stupidity, I argue that you shouldn't take stupid to your raids.

  2. #42

    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    Quote Originally Posted by ardoRic
    Who?

    He's probably an engineer. We are allowed to use profession perks. Epic head for engineers, shoulder enchant for scribes (non-scribes can only use the blue SoH enchant), Dragon's Eyes for Jewelcrafters (non-JCs need to use blue quality gems), etc.
    Pally tank, he was an engineer, and it was the engineering helm. Cant remember the name (or be bothered to look it up if I'm honest, but I guess you will know who I mean).

    So, you werent actually properly all in blue gear then?
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldrad View Post
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    Just saying.
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  3. #43
    Immortal Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    The engineering helm is an ilvl 200 epic (ie like one you got from the end boss of old heroics) and is considered the "profession perk" on par with Bsmiths having 2 extra sockets or chanters and their rings.
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  4. #44

    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfròst
    No thread is complete without the retard dickhead chiming in.
    While rather vulgar, he/she is absolutely right. A big gratz on accomplishing this, but I honestly don't think this thread is going to change anyone's mind when it comes to Gearscore.

  5. #45

    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    Your tank Latviah has epic helm on >.<

  6. #46

    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    Quote Originally Posted by Grievuuz
    Noone cares.
    Go clear something, then come back and talk.
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  7. #47

    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal
    The engineering helm is an ilvl 200 epic (ie like one you got from the end boss of old heroics) and is considered the "profession perk" on par with Bsmiths having 2 extra sockets or chanters and their rings.
    Not the point. They say several times and make a big deal that they are wearing only blue gear. They are not. A helm is gear, wether it is considered a proffession perk or not. You cannot say "we are only wearing blue gear" if someone isnt.

    They state on that blog that the engineering helm is ok. That doesnt mean they are fully blue geared and completing toc. They arent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldrad View Post
    You know, at some point, Hitler was "just a beta" and people didn't stop him... then he went live.
    Just saying.
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  8. #48
    The Lightbringer Keosen's Avatar
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    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    Quote Originally Posted by Thatwsntmilk
    And how intelligent is it if you say that "one mode of one lockout of one single boss in the expansion = quality of the expansion".
    It's not one boss, i bring the end boss as an example do you want the current top end tier raid numbers?

    25 man
    H: Lord Marrowgar (25): 4353 (8.41%)
    H: Lady Deathwhisper (25): 2363 (4.56%)
    H: Gunship Battle (25): 4517 (8.73%)
    H: Deathbringer Saurfang (25): 3147 (6.08%)
    H: Festergut (25): 3528 (6.82%)
    H: Rotface (25): 4098 (7.92%)
    H: Professor Putricide (25): 1128 (2.18%)
    H: Blood Prince Council (25): 3583 (6.92%)
    H: Blood-Queen Lana'thel (25): 3596 (6.95%)
    H: Valithria Dreamwalker (25): 3341 (6.45%)
    H: Sindragosa (25): 1176 (2.27%)
    H: The Lich King (25): 36 (0.07%)

    Total < 9% of the 10k+ ranked guilds
    10 man
    H: Lord Marrowgar (10): 12438 (24.03%)
    H: Lady Deathwhisper (10): 12340 (23.84%)
    H: Gunship Battle (10): 13540 (26.16%)
    H: Deathbringer Saurfang (10): 10896 (21.05%)
    H: Festergut (10): 10908 (21.07%)
    H: Rotface (10): 11257 (21.75%)
    H: Professor Putricide (10): 5747 (11.10%)
    H: Blood Prince Council (10): 8641 (16.69%)
    H: Blood-Queen Lana'thel (10): 10028 (19.37%)
    H: Valithria Dreamwalker (10): 8002 (15.46%)
    H: Sindragosa (10): 4564 (8.82%)
    H: The Lich King (10): 246 (0.48%)

    Total < 27% of the 10k+ ranked guilds
    The vast majority of the ones that calling WoTLK easy haven't even seen most fights in ICC, most of them would linstantly quit if there was no hard mode choise. Really how many of you remember the epic whine of Sunwell?
    How many guild disband threads have you seen because M'uru was un-killable before the nerf?
    Do you know that until the major -30HP% nerf only 0.5% of the ranked guilds have actually made it past the trash to Kalegcos?

    Do you want hard for all again?
    Do you want not to be able to see the contect?
    You whined back then because you were raiding BT for 1year+ cause you were unable to step foot in Sunwell and you whine now because you have cleared the normal modes but not even get past Marrowgar Heroic.

    Get the fuck out of here seriously

  9. #49

    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    i have to agree with you keosen... people purposely avoid the difficult content and then whine about the game being too easy. the majority of people who do whine, however, are the ones that are either guildless or uninvited to raids by their guilds and have to pug their runs (which forces them to do normal modes, because i can't even imagine how a togc or h icc pug would go)

  10. #50

    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    Cool achievement but you completely fail at making the point you are trying to make. You start out talking about people recruiting in trade requiring too much gear. Then you seek to disprove that gear is required when recruiting by hand picking skilled friends to help you clear in blues. The only way you can prove that gear is not required when recruiting from trade channel is to recruit 9 unknown people in blues from trade channel and then clear ToC. We all know that would NEVER work. If you're hand picking skilled raid members who have experience working together and expecting that to say something about the gear you should look for on people in trade/lfg then you're comparing apples to oranges.
    Drunk toddlers in a dryer

  11. #51

    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    Personally, I'm still not sure if I believe OP. He says they one shot everything, except Faction Champs, but then goes on to say that they failed on Twins. So that's not one-shotting except....

    However, I do think it's doable, but with people with complete experience in the instance. ToC10 was designed pretty much with Naxx gear in mind, and pretty close to naxx10 which was tuned for people in blues also.

    Also add, that I'd be pretty sure this isn't a typical blue type toon either. As said, every toon in that raid had probably run toc10/25 about 100 times before that, so they know the instance inside and out. Most likely every blue item was gemmed and enchanted as well. Kinda more like a level 80 twink than a real toon.

    ICC might be another challenge, the hardest bosses of 1-4 would be marrowgar and Saurfang. Marrowgar simply because tank coordination would have to be precise otherwise tanks would get one shot. On Saurfang, dps and heals would need to step it up heavily othewise if more than 1 person got the debuff, it'd most likely be over. 2 healers would be needed and they'd run oom really fast and at 30% soft enrage, it would make this encounter difficult.

  12. #52

    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    Quote Originally Posted by wooshiewoo

    ToC hasn't recieved any buffs though, it is still as hard as it was, and if you play in low gear you have the original challenges since when it came out.


    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-ac...90reamCatchers


    A tribute to madness completed by myself on 10th September 2009 in Naxx/Ulduar gear. I wasn't even close to being the first, and people already had the full achievement with 50 attempts when i done mine.

    I had a Gear Score of around 4.8k

    People who can't complete it in today's gear simply suck. There is no other way to say it. They suck.
    actually, id say it's probably just as much if not more of an accomplishment today than it was back then. And here's why. No one really does it any more. Which means guilds don't do it as part of their weekly runs, thus it means you have to pug it. Sure you can get 5 guildies to probably help you out, but that means 5 pug players. And regardless of GS, they have a 75% chance of being full fail. GS regardless, most of the time gear/spec, etc... isn't right, not gemmed right, not enchanted, etc...

    Thus it was much easier to do with guildies who knew what they were doing, most likely flasked, knew the fights, even if they had less quality gear, they had better quality players, which made it much, much easier.

  13. #53

    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    I'm not horribly surprised you were able to do this from a DPS and maybe a healing perspective. I'm a bit surprised you could do it from a tanking perspective. Several of the ToC fights put out a pretty significant amount of damage relative to the health and mitigation of a Blue geared tank. I'm kinda surprised you didn't see some "Urgh, 2-shot, dead" situations. Overall the enrage timers in ToC are pretty generous, with only Anub and the Twins being anything like worrisome in ten man, so I can see it from that perspective.

    I'd not be surprised if you got the first three bosses in ICC either, but I'll be pretty shocked if you get Saurfang. I'll be flabbergasted if you get Festergut. Saurfang has tighter DPS requirements than Anub 10, and Festergut is a pure DPS check. Maybe when the buff hits 30% you could do him in Blues, but I'll be really impressed if you do it before then.

  14. #54

    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    Is it just me, or do you get the impression that the haters in this thread are extremely butthurt by this?

    Grats on the kills. Even if you did use engineering Helms, I still think its a great achievement.

  15. #55

    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    One engineering helm on one character won't make a significant difference, and I think what you guys are doing is great.

    BUT

    Engineering helms are not perks for the profession any more than the Titansteel Destroyer is a perk for blacksmiths. The profession perks I would have no objection to in this kind of a raid setup are as follows:

    Herbalism: Lifeblood
    Skinning: Master of Anatomy
    Mining: Toughness

    Blacksmithing: 2 added sockets
    Engineering: Cloak, Glove, and Boot tinkers
    Jewelcrafting: Dragon's Eye gem cuts (technically epic, but no stronger than the other professions by the numbers, just in choice)

    Leatherworking: Fur Lining

    Alchemy: Flask of the North, Mixology
    Inscription: Master's Inscriptions

    Enchanting: Ring Enchantments
    Tailoring: Cloak Embroideries

    Anything else is not a perk of the profession, and should not be permissible, in my opinion.

    Still, congrats

  16. #56

    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    People have trouble getting 5.5k GS? People still run ToC 10? People don't get invited to pugs based on promises that they're pro?

    This thread brings up so many interesting topics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keosen
    Really how many of you remember the epic whine of Sunwell?
    Really? I remember hearing about how well Sunwell was tuned and that it was a step up from previous content. Where's all this complaining you talk of?

  17. #57

    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    The engineering helm is not just made by engineers, it requires an slvl 400 engineering to wear. Titansteel destroyer or tempered titansteel helm does not have limitations, anyone can wear it. The engi helm is a "Requires Level 72" item, just like the alchemy-only and JC-only trinket. Both are colored blue, but according to RAWR are much better than any ilvl 200 blue trinkets, and on par with most ilvl 200 epics.

    By allowing the engi helm and "epic" leg armor, we simply wanted to allow players to choose their own professions instead of having JC/tailor or JC/LW a must be profession combo.

  18. #58

    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    Quote Originally Posted by Keosen
    The vast majority of the ones that calling WoTLK easy haven't even seen most fights in ICC, most of them would linstantly quit if there was no hard mode choise. Really how many of you remember the epic whine of Sunwell?
    How many guild disband threads have you seen because M'uru was un-killable before the nerf?
    Do you know that until the major -30HP% nerf only 0.5% of the ranked guilds have actually made it past the trash to Kalegcos?

    Do you want hard for all again?
    Do you want not to be able to see the contect?
    You whined back then because you were raiding BT for 1year+ cause you were unable to step foot in Sunwell and you whine now because you have cleared the normal modes but not even get past Marrowgar Heroic.
    Just fyi not everyone thinks that added HP/dmg plus a couple of "new" abilities = totally new and awesome boss.

    Also ICC numbers are kind of ehfed up. I know tons of old hardcore raiders that stopped raiding in wotlk (most of them during toc).

  19. #59

    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    Quote Originally Posted by draticus
    Cool achievement but you completely fail at making the point you are trying to make. You start out talking about people recruiting in trade requiring too much gear. Then you seek to disprove that gear is required when recruiting by hand picking skilled friends to help you clear in blues. The only way you can prove that gear is not required when recruiting from trade channel is to recruit 9 unknown people in blues from trade channel and then clear ToC. We all know that would NEVER work. If you're hand picking skilled raid members who have experience working together and expecting that to say something about the gear you should look for on people in trade/lfg then you're comparing apples to oranges.
    But we are not exactly hand picking skilled raid members. The guild was formed from scratch and anyone interested was allowed to join. Whoever managed to follow the very simple guild rules and lvl to 80 and get good enough gear (doesn't even have to be full blues), could also get into raids. Usually the raids were made up of whoever was online, very rarely have we been able to pick-and-choose members to get the best setup possible. Afaik, none of the guild members in Undergeared are RL friends, none have ever raided with each other before joining this guild, and none of us are playing a character of the same class as our main is.

    Quote Originally Posted by chronomasakari
    Next, the buff doesn't increase all stats 30%, nor does it increase 30% of the stats gained from gear.

    What it does do, is boost 15% of your hp. A tank in 200 gear should be what, 25k hp unbuffed? In current gear he's 40-45k hp unbuffed. That's almost double hp, but his gear level is only 251-264. Even a 30% buff to his health won't bring it up to that level (33k or so).
    Actually a tank in full blue gear has closer to 27k - 29k health. Fully buffed (all class buffs, flask and fish) it can go to around 37-39k hit points. I'm not pulling these figures out of my ass, these are the numbers I see on my own character (I'm one of the tanks in Undergeared, hi!). What the ICC buff does is boost the total health by up to 30%. The buff is now at 20%. 20% increase of 38k hp = around 45k hit points. I believe that should be more than enough to survive through the first four bosses of ICC at least.
    I hope this answers some questions.

  20. #60

    Re: LFM ToC10 5.5K GS, achie or no inv

    What's next, someone saying that wasd is more important than GS??? Oh wait, that's what all gearscore topics in the last 20 years have been about.

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