Nonsensical Race/Class Combos

[Danur]

Alright gonna preface this, with I am completely stoked about Cata regardless of what lore they tear to shreds, because the gameplay changes look sick and I'm hopelessly addicted anyway.

But still the inner lore-nerd in me is just outraged at some of the new race/class combos they are allowing. So far, I've heard their logic (excuses) for Tauren Paladins, so I'll just accept that and let that be. But some of the others...I can't wait to see what kind of rabbit they are gonna pull out of their hat to justify them.

Worgen Druid? So we have a kingdom of xenophobic humans who have been cut off from the rest of the world for generations, and have been transformed into a race of werewolves. So they once were friendly with Night Elves so this means they can be druids now? What about the humans, dwarves and gnomes who have been fighting alongside the Night Elves all this time the Were-men were hiding behind the greymane wall?

Goblin Shaman? This one really gets me. Goblins are supposed to be this plundering, greedy, money-driven race. How on earth they can then turn around, and befriend the elemental spirits to gain their blessings to use their power is beyond me.

Undead Hunter... yeah so all this time there was one human hunter who was taught the ways of communing with nature in order to tame beasts and be a ranger warrior. Now all of a sudden the undead humans, who have done nothing but shun anything in nature unless trying to pervert it via alchemy now can manage to master those abilities?

Nelf Mage: Ok so an entire society is splintered, the world itself is nearly ended in an apocalyptic sundering, and a portion of their wayward brethren now roam the northern region of the eastern continent crazed and starved to fulfill their addiction to magic. And they are going to just forget that, turn away from their druidic-based society and re-embrace the magic that nearly destroyed them twice over? Some things in this game gave it flavor in the form of contrast. Having mages in the alliance while despised by the night elves was one of them. Though I suppose if orcs can be warlocks, then nelves can be mages >.>

I'm all for most of the class combo changes, but these ones are just beyond me. I can't wait to see Blizz explain them away -_-

[Deleted]

Worgen Druid? So we have a kingdom of xenophobic humans who have been cut off from the rest of the world for generations, and have been transformed into a race of werewolves. So they once were friendly with Night Elves so this means they can be druids now? What about the humans, dwarves and gnomes who have been fighting alongside the Night Elves all this time the Were-men were hiding behind the greymane wall?

This is somewhat of a stretch, but seeing as they can change into an animal and are rather feral, it seems logical they are closer to nature than all the other alliance races ever hope to be. Thus explaining why no other alliance race can become druids. Still, this is no worse than having to put up with the cow druids... they made a very good effort in fitting them into the lore.

Goblin Shaman? This one really gets me. Goblins are supposed to be this plundering, greedy, money-driven race. How on earth they can then turn around, and befriend the elemental spirits to gain their blessings to use their power is beyond me.

Maybe they harvest the elements, rather than asking them. The totems seem to be telling that tale with unholy contraptions simulating the elements, burning fire, fan to make wind, etc. Also very interested in their explanation.

Undead Hunter... yeah so all this time there was one human hunter who was taught the ways of communing with nature in order to tame beasts and be a ranger warrior. Now all of a sudden the undead humans, who have done nothing but shun anything in nature unless trying to pervert it via alchemy now can manage to master those abilities?

They become a hunter because that is the wow-equivalent of the Ranger. A bit closer to their lore, perhaps throw in some undead beasts (would be cool if they could only tame undead beasts...), but mostly hunter because there is no ranger.

Nelf Mage: Ok so an entire society is splintered, the world itself is nearly ended in an apocalyptic sundering, and a portion of their wayward brethren now roam the northern region of the eastern continent crazed and starved to fulfill their addiction to magic. And they are going to just forget that, turn away from their druidic-based society and re-embrace the magic that nearly destroyed them twice over? Some things in this game gave it flavor in the form of contrast. Having mages in the alliance while despised by the night elves was one of them. Though I suppose if orcs can be warlocks, then nelves can be mages >.>

There are already Nelf mages ingame since vanilla. Seeing as how the night elves have gathered numerous allies, that all use magic, and that used the magic to defeat the legion, why not..? They banned mages because they feared it would lead the legion back, well, it is back and it will keep it's gaze focussed on the only world that managed to foil about 3 invasion attempts. No need to shun mages now!


But all in all, I too am very interested in how they will be fitted into the lore/quests. But I don't think it will feel that weird, even to lorenerds (neither better nor worse than other lorelols *cough*draenei*cough*).

[Danur]

Skohsl all I can say to you is...

QQ. I DUN WANNA. SHUT UP! /wrists

[jonaas]

Worgen Druid: The Druids of Teldrassil help to bring control to the Gilneans animal side, allowing them to shift back and forth at will. As a result the more spiritual gilneans turn toward a life a druidism as a way to further their control. Druids, and the night elves as a whole, worship the moon. The worgen's curse made them slaves to the moon.

This all seems very logical and fitting, not much of a stretch at all.

[OldHordeGlory]

The one that makes the least sense to me is the orcs as mages. Like, trolls have a pretty strong background in shapeshifting given their animal gods, and the blood elves with warriors is kind of a 'duh'.

But as far as I know, there is no established precedent for orcs sitting at length, studying tome after tome of arcane incantation to the point of becoming practitioners of those magics. That's pretty out of left field, if'n you ask me. At least warlocks make a bit more sense, in that it's less study and more...inherent? Not sure what the word is, but suffice to say I think warlock is more trial and error, practical learning than it is studious stuff. In game terms it's all left-clicks regardless, but you know what I mean

[Tenderoni]

I think it's safe to say that regardless of how much lore they shatter, Blizzard know that by shoe-horning in more race/class combinations they'll please more people than they will alienate.
Lore-nuts are a minority. :P

[Albert the fish]

The one that makes the least sense to me is the orcs as mages. Like, trolls have a pretty strong background in shapeshifting given their animal gods, and the blood elves with warriors is kind of a 'duh'.

But as far as I know, there is no established precedent for orcs sitting at length, studying tome after tome of arcane incantation to the point of becoming practitioners of those magics. That's pretty out of left field, if'n you ask me. At least warlocks make a bit more sense, in that it's less study and more...inherent? Not sure what the word is, but suffice to say I think warlock is more trial and error, practical learning than it is studious stuff. In game terms it's all left-clicks regardless, but you know what I mean

i have to concur. most of the changes make some sort of sense. orc mages is a little...... quirky

the best orcs go in for the arcane in the past was as warlocks. and dont get me wrong. they make great locks and locks and mages are only a little bit different. however the orc mentality doesn't lend itself to arduous study.

being charismatic to the elements sure
dominating demonic forces with their sheer willpower ok
commanding the power of death itself when risen as death knights. i can buy that.
outside of that, they don't really go in for magic.

[tankytanktank123]

Blizz makes the lore.

there have been various good explanations for the worgen druids on this thread.

tauren paladins being Sunwalkers is legit, therefore there can be another similar light worshiper like a priest.

dwarf shaman is possible because of the wildhammer dwarf clan from Hinterlands have many shamans. since they were made to be an official alliance group in BC, dwarves allied with the alliance offically practice shamanism, and has now spread to the bronzebeard clan(the ones we play as).

human hunters, why not? They were closely allied with high elves during WC3, which means they were also exposed to the high elf rangers. plus it seems to be one of those classes that fits with everything, like warriors with a couple acceptions.

Undead hunters, they used to be people, so if a human hunter was infected and became forsaken, there you go there're an undead hunter.

Gnome priests, theve been in the game healing shit in Gnomer since vanilla, now you can play one. IMO gnomes should be able to be something else, not sure what though, but i think they still fall short as far as the selection of classes to choose from for them.

troll druid, theyve been turning into tigers, bears, panthers, bats and so on forever, they could easily be classified as a druid, maybe with different beliefs or customs.(like sunwalkers)

dwarf mages were in vanilla alpha, even in the wow instruction booklet from the original WoW CD packages. they were removed last minute.

blood elf warriors....that was just kinda stupid that they weren't able to be before(hypocritical to say, i know).

Blizz makes the lore. follow it and sheddep :P

/thread

[Elanale]

Worgen Druid isn't nonsensical. The shapeshifting race has access to the shapeshifting class. What the hell, people?

[whisperingsage]

The Gilneans have been cursed with something that changes their form. Right away, they have more Druidic potential than any other Alliance race (barring Wildhammer Dwarves and RPG book stuff). If they could be trained to slowly manipulate their curse, especially with the blessing of the animal gods/spirits, would be able to learn how to control their shapeshifting.

Goblin Shamans don't have to befriend the elements. The Taunka don't, and they have control over the elements. They've dominated the elements, twisting them to their control. The Goblins could go that direction, or they could do what Goblins do best, and strike up a deal. I'm sure the elements would look just as favorably to a trade of goods and services as they would "befriending." Besides, Tauren, Orcs, and Trolls already basically trade goods and services (elemental powers for serving the elements), but they just view it differently.

Undead Hunters make a lot of sense. First off, they were Human in life (Human Hunters basically being like Dwarf Mages, and were not an option before because other classes fit them better). So, they aren't tree-huggers anymore, but who says that they aren't connected to nature? They definitely are! What are the Forsaken connected to most? Death. That's a pretty large aspect of nature. Plus, nature is cold and uncaring, not loving and nice. The Forsaken are actually closer to the cruelty of nature than other races.

Night Elf Mages are likely not the normal Darnassian Night Elves. They're probably the Highborne Shen'dralar who went to have an audience. If they do it right, they'll still show that the Darnassians have contempt for you, but are grudgingly allowing you. Why would they do this? Have you seen what's been happening with Ashenvale and Darkshore? They need all the troops they can get. Plus, since they don't have Shamans, the Highborne probably show their worth by showing their mastery over Fire and Frost, which is better than nothing to help suppress most of the effects of the Cataclysm.

Orc Mages make sense as well. Sure, they probably won't be the image of the wise scholar, learned beyond their years. However, Trolls can be mages, and they aren't really studious. The only real difference between Warlocks and Mages is the use of Fel and Demon magic. There's no difference in intelligence, and actually Warlocks have to deal with intelligent demons and unstable(ish) magic. While Orc Warlocks may not be booksmart (and some are more than you'd think), they're certainly intelligent, and even crafty. Warlocks already use the Arcane (in the sense that Fel is Arcane+Demon blood), so all they have to do is try to stop using Fel magic, and they already have mastery over most magic. I would imagine the Shadow magic Warlocks use is probably akin to pure Arcane, albeit tainted with demon magic. They obviously have magic over Fire, so they'd only need to train with Frost (not hard if you think about channeling Fire in reverse), so the only thing left is why. Garrosh probably will crack down harder on Warlocks, as demon corruption is what gave his family a bad name. Thrall was tolerating them because he was using them to track down their leaders, and we know Garrosh isn't as crafty. I'm interested to see how there will be Warlocks left at all.

[Cadus]

People have stated why those make sense already.

My question is, though, why you think Orc Warlocks are strange. Discounting Eredar, weren't Orcs the first of all races to become Warlocks? They pretty much invented the modern Warlock.

[Albert the fish]

People have stated why those make sense already.

My question is, though, why you think Orc Warlocks are strange. Discounting Eredar, weren't Orcs the first of all races to become Warlocks? They pretty much invented the modern Warlock.

first mortal race. the man'ari eredar predate them. but man'ari are no longer mortal.


who said orcish warlocks are strange?


i see some sense to your orc mage jsutification whisper. i'll go with that

[BagOfChips]

Nothing in this game makes sense.

[OldHordeGlory]

who said orcish warlocks are strange?

I think he was alluding to the post just before his own that questioned how the existence of warlocks could persist in the theoretically hostile environment of a Garrosh-led Horde. It was speculated that Garrosh would seek to stomp out any traces of magics that lend memory to his father's pact with demons, rather than see the strategic advantage to possessing those powers within the Horde.

It wasn't really questioning the validity of orc warlocks due to race as much as it was due to circumstance.

I'm still not really biting on the whole mage thing, but it's better than nothing. I mean, Kel'Thuzad was a mage turned necromancer due to special interest in necromancy...it isn't too farfetched then I suppose to say that warlocks are mages that focused on demons and fel magic, and as such those specializations could be stripped away to create mages.

Even so, since specific learning in magecraft would have to be learned from blood elves, undead and/or trolls, I don't have high hopes in Garrosh being the catalyst for their creation.

[The Madgod]

Undead hunters are similar to the Blood Elven hunters. They aren't really hunters, but rangers. If you've been in Forsaken-controlled parts of Northrend, you know of the Dark Rangers. That's the organization to which the Undead hunters belong. A good bit of the Forsaken is also elven; dont forget that. Some of them could have been Elven Rangers.

[Izhara]

Alright gonna preface this, with I am completely stoked about Cata regardless of what lore they tear to shreds, because the gameplay changes look sick and I'm hopelessly addicted anyway.

But still the inner lore-nerd in me is just outraged at some of the new race/class combos they are allowing. So far, I've heard their logic (excuses) for Tauren Paladins, so I'll just accept that and let that be. But some of the others...I can't wait to see what kind of rabbit they are gonna pull out of their hat to justify them.

Worgen Druid? So we have a kingdom of xenophobic humans who have been cut off from the rest of the world for generations, and have been transformed into a race of werewolves. So they once were friendly with Night Elves so this means they can be druids now? What about the humans, dwarves and gnomes who have been fighting alongside the Night Elves all this time the Were-men were hiding behind the greymane wall?

Velinde Starsong is featured in the teaser footage unveiling the Worgen. Druidism is a school of spiritual thought centered on balance, both of nature and within the druid. That means, druidism could well act as a second option to Light Worship as a means of finding the inner peace and inner strength needed to keep the wolf at bay rather than degenerating into feral worgen once again.

Goblin Shaman? This one really gets me. Goblins are supposed to be this plundering, greedy, money-driven race. How on earth they can then turn around, and befriend the elemental spirits to gain their blessings to use their power is beyond me.

They are a major minority, if that makes any sense, much like gnome priests will be. They are a minority in their race, but prevalent enough to be playable. A good parallel right now are draenei shaman.

Undead Hunter... yeah so all this time there was one human hunter who was taught the ways of communing with nature in order to tame beasts and be a ranger warrior. Now all of a sudden the undead humans, who have done nothing but shun anything in nature unless trying to pervert it via alchemy now can manage to master those abilities?

Dark Rangers say hello, so do common marksmen. This is an instance of a class being used as an approximation, much in the same way that the priest class is an amalgamation of all the schools of thought among the races and their respective religions, simply for gameplay's sake.

Nelf Mage: Ok so an entire society is splintered, the world itself is nearly ended in an apocalyptic sundering, and a portion of their wayward brethren now roam the northern region of the eastern continent crazed and starved to fulfill their addiction to magic. And they are going to just forget that, turn away from their druidic-based society and re-embrace the magic that nearly destroyed them twice over? Some things in this game gave it flavor in the form of contrast. Having mages in the alliance while despised by the night elves was one of them. Though I suppose if orcs can be warlocks, then nelves can be mages >.>

The current story is that, after ten thousand years of the Highborne leaving the night elves be, the night elves have finally gotten to where they can let the Highborne start making amends for the War of the Ancients. Add to this that things are about to go tits-up in Ashenvale, the night elves will end up relaxing a taboo in favor of survival.

[Cadus]

Some things in this game gave it flavor in the form of contrast. Having mages in the alliance while despised by the night elves was one of them. Though I suppose if orcs can be warlocks, then nelves can be mages >.>

That was what I was referring to, in the original post.

[ejfimp]

Danur, I don't know if you woke up on the wrong side of the bed, or if you just can't except changes. All of them do make sence, just use ur brain :P (haven't read all the replies but anyhow) The first reply was like, exactly what I thought myself and your response to that was "QQ. I DUN WANNA. SHUT UP! /wrists". Why even make the post in the first place if you don't wanna listen to the simple reasons to why the class combinations are there? I don't understand your way of thinking tbh :P

[Hoothor]

think about this
You are in an alliance with other races, in real terms lets say white and black people (no racist remarks plz) the black person is acting in a cool way and is really popular so the white likes this and starts acting like the black guy

why not like that in WoW? the undead likes the look of hunters from tauren and orcs etc so they decide to train in hunting, the tauren likes the look of being a holy warrior so he trains to become a paladin, WoW is a multi-cultural society in lore terms so it only makes sense for them to copy each other or to influence the others

for more examples look at the effect of western culture on the east

[FrozenFlames]

The thing is: in cataclysm the world changes ''now'', ''now'' nelf mages are going to be allowed again, ''now'' sylvanas is going to teach her undeadies how shoot with a bow. While TBC and Wotlk were more focused on what already happend.


p.s. FEMALE DWARF ENHANCEMENT SHAMAN FTW


And: ejfimp ...your pic is pure evil, resetti must burn in hell!