View Poll Results: How many months will the ignorance go on?

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  • some people just wont get it.

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  1. #41

    Re: Inc Healing Ignorance

    Quote Originally Posted by Vook
    I'm still confused about this whole "nobody is going to be topped off" thing. How are they gonna manage that? If someone's low, you heal them...they don't get healed to full? Or is blizz just going to put a shitstorm of AOE damage in every dungeon/raid?
    10 dps at half health. You can either heal them quick for a 1 second cast for 10k each, or a 1.5 sec cast for 10k each. The difference is that 4 minutes into the fight if you only used the quick heal, you will be oom and you won't be able to heal anyone.

    This at least seems like the goal. There may actually be a reason why in Cata you will just let a hot tick away to heal someone over 12 seconds instead of top them off immediately.

  2. #42
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Re: Inc Healing Ignorance

    We already know that Leap of Faith is specifically designed as the ultimate "anti-retards" button. I mean, it's far more useful in PvP, and logic would dictate such, but given the average intellect levels of a player in the game today...it's nothing more than an anti-retard life preserver.

    As far as healing goes, I do think people are overreacting a bit. The way it sounds to me is that it will be much more like BC healing. In BC, you had to watch your mana bars, but it certainly didn't mean that people stayed at half health for extended durations of time or anything. All this should do, at best theory, is two things. One, as explained very appropriately, this will make healing more of a "triage" style of gameplay again. All this means is that if you have an option of a person at half health and a person at one quarter health, you prioritize. Now, any good healer is already doing this. So this will have no affect on them whatsoever. The second is it might force DPS to learn self-survivability once again, something that has been dead this entire expansion. It's amazing how many DPS have so many self-survival cooldowns and instead of touching any of them, prefer instead to blame the healers for their death. Those people, as any healer already knows, are idiots.

    However, with guild perks becoming a higher focus, I see fewer and fewer PuG groups happening beyond the daily heroic. So, on a bright note, any doofus that doesn't understand anything at all about healing can simply be placed on ignore and never seen again. The best part about being a healer? DPS are expendable. But good healers are a commodity that any competent player will want to keep happy.

    At the end of it all, I am highly excited about the healing changes.

  3. #43

    Re: Inc Healing Ignorance

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown
    We already know that Leap of Faith is specifically designed as the ultimate "anti-retards" button. I mean, it's far more useful in PvP, and logic would dictate such, but given the average intellect levels of a player in the game today...it's nothing more than an anti-retard life preserver.

    As far as healing goes, I do think people are overreacting a bit. The way it sounds to me is that it will be much more like BC healing. In BC, you had to watch your mana bars, but it certainly didn't mean that people stayed at half health for extended durations of time or anything. All this should do, at best theory, is two things. One, as explained very appropriately, this will make healing more of a "triage" style of gameplay again. All this means is that if you have an option of a person at half health and a person at one quarter health, you prioritize. Now, any good healer is already doing this. So this will have no affect on them whatsoever. The second is it might force DPS to learn self-survivability once again, something that has been dead this entire expansion. It's amazing how many DPS have so many self-survival cooldowns and instead of touching any of them, prefer instead to blame the healers for their death. Those people, as any healer already knows, are idiots.

    However, with guild perks becoming a higher focus, I see fewer and fewer PuG groups happening beyond the daily heroic. So, on a bright note, any doofus that doesn't understand anything at all about healing can simply be placed on ignore and never seen again. The best part about being a healer? DPS are expendable. But good healers are a commodity that any competent player will want to keep happy.

    At the end of it all, I am highly excited about the healing changes.
    Healers are also expendable, as well as tanks. I have seen good dps carry terrible healers and tanks on more than one occasion.

  4. #44
    High Overlord Within's Avatar
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    Re: Inc Healing Ignorance

    Eh, I will heal as usual.

    And no, I don't top off players if it isn't necessary.
    Zhezl - Level 90 Mistweaver Monk.
    Do you really not know anything about how businesses run? What, do you think Blizz is ran by 30 people - 15 of them are working on WoW, 10 of them on SC2, 4 on Diablo, and a retarded donkey worked on this app for a few months? Do you also think that hamsters power their servers and when they get tired, all the servers crash?

  5. #45

    Re: Inc Healing Ignorance

    i only yell at healers if they are being stupid or im on vent giving my friends crap

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaiah View Post
    Congratulations to Egypt, who after many wipes over a very long raid lasting most of the week, resulting in some very close attempts earlier this morning, has finally downed Mub'arak, earning a tribute to insanity. Now that they have completed trial, will Paragon beat them to the punch in ICC? Only time will tell. According to a very credible source, some of the loots included liberty, freedom of speech, and, most importantly, the internets.

  6. #46

    Re: Inc Healing Ignorance

    Quote Originally Posted by Abb
    I guess you're one of those annoying people that don't answer questions in randoms, huh =P


    OT, yes I can imagine stupid DPSers whichng about no heals. They do it alredy when I do randoms, I often leave everyone of half hp while I DPS stuff. They won't die, why should i waste combat time healing them when I could kill the boss faster?

    Also, I liked your old avatar better kel ='[
    soooo bad

    your 2k dps isn't helping anything go down faster

    dps gets sketchy when they don't get heals and that will lower their dps more than the 2k you are putting down...

  7. #47

    Re: Inc Healing Ignorance

    Quote Originally Posted by Vook
    So basically we have to spend our mana more wisely? Doesn't sound too hard to me.
    I know a population of resto druids, used to blanketing raids with rejuvs and only rejuvs *Throwing in an occassional WG/Swiftmen* They will....For their sake (And my own as a tank) I hope that they can adapt..
    I am more than a fish, I am more than a man! I am...Some sort of cat, cuddlier than men, and they friggin EAT fish!

  8. #48

    Re: Inc Healing Ignorance

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanefodder
    Healers are also expendable, as well as tanks. I have seen good dps carry terrible healers and tanks on more than one occasion.
    DO you know how many people do not share the same opinion?
    Bad Tanks \
    Bad Healers = Expendable
    Bad DPS /

    Good Tank \
    = Not Expendable
    Good Healer /

    Good DPS = Expendable

    Only reason for this is because there are Tons of DPS out there. The ratio might be the same for good/bad any type of role. But when you have 2/3 tanks or healers/ or DPS being good... and there are 3 tanks 6 healers and 14 DPS... then getting rid of 1 DPS isn't as big of a deal.
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  9. #49

    Re: Inc Healing Ignorance

    Bring ranked dungeons, problem solved.

  10. #50

    Re: Inc Healing Ignorance

    Tbh, the people shouting for heals now will be the people shouting for them in the future... Stupid is as stupid does.

  11. #51

    Re: Inc Healing Ignorance

    Quote Originally Posted by anmax09
    I think, every dps in guild should be required to lvl a priest (or any other healer) to level 15, and forced to heal a few Deadmines/WC with random groups. That might make them remember about our mana.

    edit: I had this idea, because I just had a couple runs there on my alt druid (lvl 17). Ii IS actually some fun trying to conserve mana, not healing those always-tapping locks (exept an occasional hot), trying not to overheal. Feels so different from heroics or raids. But most of the dps and tanks apparently thought they are in "heroic for lowbies" and tried to chain-pull. Ugh
    well to be fair, since warlocks are using Demon Armor until lvl 62 just tossing a rejuv,FoL,Renew, or LHW should be enough to keep them up without wasting mana. just wait until the fight is over unless they are actually taking dmg before you heal.

    but besides that, i agree
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  12. #52

    Re: Inc Healing Ignorance

    Quote Originally Posted by waddlez
    soooo bad

    your 2k dps isn't helping anything go down faster

    dps gets sketchy when they don't get heals and that will lower their dps more than the 2k you are putting down...
    You have a lot of faith in those pug DPS to even be around 2k. generally as disc I shield the party and throw PI on myself and do 3k DPS while everyone else is sitting around 1k. So them having health or not doesn't effect their terribadness.

  13. #53
    Bloodsail Admiral Cjeska's Avatar
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    Re: Inc Healing Ignorance

    With mana regen beeing obviously higher out of combat (no 5 sec rule anymore), I think it would be a good idea to just heal your group after every trashpack (or just right befor they go down) and stay as long ooc as you can to regen faster. If there is not too much dmg coming in, your dps and tank should be fine.

  14. #54

    Re: Inc Healing Ignorance

    Quote Originally Posted by grevari
    DO you know how many people do not share the same opinion?
    Bad Tanks \
    Bad Healers = Expendable
    Bad DPS /

    Good Tank \
    = Not Expendable
    Good Healer /

    Good DPS = Expendable

    Only reason for this is because there are Tons of DPS out there. The ratio might be the same for good/bad any type of role. But when you have 2/3 tanks or healers/ or DPS being good... and there are 3 tanks 6 healers and 14 DPS... then getting rid of 1 DPS isn't as big of a deal.
    The bottom one is not true at all.
    If the whole group is good you need LESS healers, therefore if you go without an extra healer it doesnt matter, DPS makes the fight faster.
    Which is also true if you compare old raids to the new ones, if everyone is good/outgears it, healers are no longer needed as much, DPS is always needed.

    Throwing the DPS is expendable card never rides right with me, good DPS is NEVER expendable on Hardmodes or actual progression and saying that they are is really arrogant.

    The best part about being a healer? DPS are expendable. But good healers are a commodity that any competent player will want to keep happy.
    That's like saying that a Tank can do whatever he wants or mouth off to a group/raid because he thinks he's nigh-God for being able to tank a boss, just because 5-7 people are good at playing whack-a-mole for 5 minutes to keep people up during a fight doesn't make you irreplaceable, there is ALWAYS a better player out there and healers arent exactly hard to find. The only reason people state such things in thier ignorant haze is because there are less raid spots for you, not because there are less OF you. Even if there are DOUBLE the amount of DPS to healers/tanks on any given server, healers and tanks are more easily replaced than dps.

    3 tanks = 30 on the server 1/10
    6 healers = 30 on the server 1/5
    14 dps = 60 on the server 1/4.28

  15. #55
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  16. #56
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Re: Inc Healing Ignorance

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanefodder
    That's like saying that a Tank can do whatever he wants or mouth off to a group/raid because he thinks he's nigh-God for being able to tank a boss, just because 5-7 people are good at playing whack-a-mole for 5 minutes to keep people up during a fight doesn't make you irreplaceable
    Methinks you do not look at the game from a realistic perspective. Also, I stated GOOD healers. If a healer is good, and surrounded by other people who are good, the chances of complication or conflict is near nil.

    Now, let's say that an average server population for an entire faction is 10,000 players. If you were to roughly break down the number of DPS, healers, and tanks of that entire total, this would be a realistic ballpark figure.

    Tanks : About 1,000
    Healers : About 2,500
    DPS : About 6,500

    This means of your server's population, 10% are tanks, 25% are healers, and 65% are DPS. Now, to fill a PuG, let's eliminate some numbers since we know the odds of people in, say, the top 5 guilds on your faction are likely not going to be doing anything outside of the guild. This probably lowers your total pool to about 8,000, and likely reduces your number of tanks and healers (percentagely speaking) far more than it reduces your DPS totals, as hybrids that are in most of these guilds will be able to fill additional roles (which I have factored into my total).

    To illustrate this, try to do invites for a 25-man raid. Tell me how many tells you get from people saying "I will tank" or "I will heal" that could potentially fill multiple roles as opposed to "I can DPS" from paladins, warriors, death knights, priests, druids, and shamans. You're probably now looking at about 80% of that 8,000 that is strictly "DPS only" (including pure classes, obviously).

    Now, tell me. With that ballpark figure in your head...if you're doing a PuG raid, which is easier to replace? A healer? Or a DPS?

    DPS is EVERYWHERE. Literally. You can't take ten steps without tripping over a 10-man raid's worth of DPS. Good healers, and moreso good tanks, are certainly far fewer and further between.

    Also, you are still comparing the Wrath mentality of healing (playing "whack-a-mole") to what healing will be like in Cataclysm. This leads me to believe that you did not heal in BC, and certainly did not heal in vanilla. Neither of these expansions had a "whack-a-mole" style of healing mechanics. Mana efficiency, overhealing, prioritizing, these were what healing was about in raids prior to Wrath. I'll give some examples.

    You are doing Archimonde and you are assigned to group healing (generally, each group was given a specific raid healer, at least in my guild). You have the following scenario.

    -You are fine and have no incoming damage.
    -DPS 1 has just been feared into a fire. They have trinketed and taken some damage, but have quickly moved out and are currently safe.
    -DPS 2 and 3 have been feared into a fire and trinket is on cooldown. They passed through the fire and onto the other side, but have taken moderate damage and are about at half of their health.
    -DPS 4 has been feared and his trinket is on cooldown. The fire is coming directly at him. There is no way to avoid, and you know death is likely imminent.

    What do you do?

    a. Spam group healing spells (PoH, CoH) to get the entire party up.
    b. Heal DPS 2 and 3 because they have taken the most current damage.
    c. CoH DPS 2 and 3 once. Place massive healing on DPS 4. Then Renew DPS 1.

    If you said a. or b...you never healed in BC, and it shows.

    The entire object (and what actually, to me, made it fun) of healing in BC and vanilla was that you had to be decisive on who needed your spells most immediately. This is known as "triage" healing. If you played in vanilla and leveled first aid, you would know what this system is like as this allowed you to advance from 225 first aid through a quest. I use Archimonde as my best fight example because it was the ultimate fight where if anyone dies under any circumstance, your raid nearly guarantees a wipe.

    Your comparison is false. Healing in Cataclysm will not be the same as it is today, where six people stand there and simply hit their biggest button when someone takes damage. Spells such as Renew will become far more commonplace to use as a priority and spells such as Flash Heal will become a more "emergency" spell. You won't get to just sit there and mash buttons repeatedly and keep everyone at full. You're going to have to make choices, and those choices will decide almost completely the differences between success and failure. Do you heal the person at 70% health with more incoming damage, or the person at 50% health with none? Do you use a slower, more mana-intensive group healing spell or use more GCDs and less mana to slowly get the raid topped off? Do you heal the guy standing in the fire and save him from himself or heal the person with the very large incoming damage ability about to hit him?

    That's nothing near "whack-a-mole" healing, and I feel that you're one of the very, very many that's going to have to relearn what you have learned when this new expansion hits if you think that that's all healing ever was and ever will be.

  17. #57

    Re: Inc Healing Ignorance

    It will most likely never change. DPS will still take no responsibility in their own health and will instead cry when they have any amount of health that isn't 100%.

  18. #58

    Re: Inc Healing Ignorance

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown
    [snip]

    And you are the typical healer too, ALL you do is play whack a mole, the entire expansion, dont even act like you havent, I never said anything about BC, and no sir, it was not THAT bad to heal. The reason people died to the flame mechanic was shear stupidty and if you didnt renew the guy that got the DOT, and sicne disc didnt exist YOU were the bad healer...

    Why do you think Almost every end game guild that is recruiting is recruting DPS? OH well it's pretty simple, the fact of the matter is it harder to find good dps worth keeping and the healer tank openings are filled almost immedietly, WHY? because of supply and demand my friend.

  19. #59
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Re: Inc Healing Ignorance

    I never disputed that healing in Wrath is like playing "whack-a-mole". But I'm done attempting to discuss things with you rationally, as it's very clear you're only here to try and start unnecessary and irrational arguments. Which leads me to believe you've never even played a healer and are posting in a healing-related topic regardless of not having any knowledge at all as to what you are talking about.


  20. #60

    Re: Inc Healing Ignorance

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown
    I never disputed that healing in Wrath is like playing "whack-a-mole". But I'm done attempting to discuss things with you rationally, as it's very clear you're only here to try and start unnecessary and irrational arguments. Which leads me to believe you've never even played a healer and are posting in a healing-related topic regardless of not having any knowledge at all as to what you are talking about.


    I have more than one healing class at end game, I know what im talking about. I started an arguement because there is another dps bashing looney toon that thinks just because DPS are DPS makes them stupid, expendable, and easily replaced which isn't true at all, healers and tanks are just as easily replaced. Which was my point from the beginning.

    The whole "DUR IM A DPS HEAL ME TO FULL" is a cliche generalisation that some healers makes to justify thier postion in a group as more important than the others. We are not moving out of a pre-naxx void zone because it's a DPS loss and rather pointless.

    In a nutshell this is almost all the healers I have personally heard complaining:

    "INSTANCES AND RAIDS SUCK, I HAVE NOTHING TO DO, IM FALLING ASLEEP HERE! GG BLIZZ"

    "DON'T FUCKING STAND IN THAT!"

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