Hastestacking Retribution paladin.

[Requital]

This chart should tell you how effective haste is, For those that said haste is good shame on you gemming haste would be like gemming agility it's not good we accept it because it's on gear. There is nothing good about haste it's a horrible stat and will never be more effective then strength.

[Nillo]

-chart-

This chart should tell you how effective haste is, For those that said haste is good shame on you gemming haste would be like gemming agility it's not good we accept it because it's on gear. There is nothing good about haste it's a horrible stat and will never be more effective then strength.

You're comparing apples to oranges here :P
+ Haste is about as good as crit for yellow slots (depending on gear it might be slightly better)
+ Haste is about as good as crit as an extra on gear (=> Crit/Haste >> Crit ArP >= Haste ArP)
- Haste is not even close to Str, but it's far from being a horrible stat !_!

[Deleted]

Jesus, haven't we been through this haste shit so many times before already? And always with the same result: haste is revolting shit, end of it. If it's on gear and the gear is an upgrade, live with it. If you gem/enchant for it, you are just bad.

You're comparing apples to oranges here :P
+ Haste is about as good as crit for yellow slots (depending on gear it might be slightly better)
+ Haste is about as good as crit as an extra on gear (=> Crit/Haste >> Crit ArP >= Haste ArP)
- Haste is not even close to Str, but it's far from being a horrible stat !_!

I'm not quite ready to buy all of that. Haste only affects white swings. Crit affects ALL attacks. Common sense says crit >>>>> haste any day. Means str/crit gems on yellow sockets.

[Nillo]

1) Haste only affects white swings.
2) Crit affects ALL attacks.
3) Common sense says crit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> haste any day.

3 doesn't necessarily follow from 1 and 2 -.-
Casters usually go for haste > crit even though some of their abilities are cooldown based (and cooldown based abilities have usually a terribly low haste scaling, because only their gcd is affected by haste) just because crit scales BAD.

[Badpaladin]

+ Haste is about as good as crit for yellow slots (depending on gear it might be slightly better)
+ Haste is about as good as crit as an extra on gear (=> Crit/Haste >> Crit ArP >= Haste ArP)

Haste is not a practical stat. The point of this thread is attaining haste at the expense of other stats(like crit). Attaining haste at the expense of crit or strength is very bad.

[Nillo]

1) Haste is not a practical stat.
2) Attaining haste at the expense of crit or strength is very bad.
3) The point of this thread is attaining haste at the expense of other stats(like crit).

1) And what are you trying to say with that sentence? -.-
2) Str yes as I already stated. Crit no, as there is certainly a point, where haste is slightly better than crit, so why would you refrain from gearing or gemming for haste?
3) I have no clue what this thread is about (because the op's walls of text don't make sense), but to me it doesn't look like it's about Crit vs Haste.

[Thilia]

2) Str yes as I already stated. Crit no, as there is certainly a point, where haste is slightly better than crit, so why would you refrain from gearing or gemming for haste?

The length of fights affect the value of haste and crit. Rawr and simcraft show 5 minute fights, go ahead and sim your character and attain values for both at 4 minutes, 3 minutes, 7 minutes, 8 minutes.

It's a situational stat that ends up on our gear and has good synergy with BiS items.

Edit: After playing around with the fight lengths, the stat values are roughly the same. Crit outweighs haste.

[Tykku]

Seal of Corruption/Vengeance hits for 41%-42% of melee damage as bonus holy damage PER SWING. what i was wondering if having lets say 3.5sec swing time normally countra 1.8 seconds or something would the damage from the seal alone be enough to make up for the 3-400 extra damage per swing at 3.5sec swing time?

Im just specualting, im not claiming that haste is better than STR currently but where would the meetingpoint be and what would be the result?

Random numbers:

4500-5000 melee swing 3.0seconds. gives dps around 1600 + increased damage on judgements exor and so on.
3500-4000 melee swing 2.0seconds. gives dps in white roughly 2k + 2k holy damage per swing due to corruption/vengeance.
Question is, When will the Bolded text be superior than the underlined text?

The Damage you gain from haste on seal of veng procs is very noticeable. The damage you lose from Judgement, Divine storm, Crusader strike, Cons, and Exorcism due to having a lot less strength is also very noticeable, and outweighs the gain from Seal of veng.

[Yoshimiko]

As already mentioned, haste isn't that good.

It doesn't give any benefit to instant attacks (judgement, crusader strike, divine storm) so STR will beat it at any gear level.

Actually, this is wrong. Haste does directly effect how many divine storms you use in a fight. Haste also gives benefits to ALL instant attacks, due to the decreased GCD timer. At some point haste > str, is it obtainable in current gear levels? probably not. A better place to check would be Elitistjerks.com searching for a good spreadsheet or a good config of rawr, rather then just asking here.

Haste will *always* be the best stat at *some* point, the question is whether that point is obtainable in the current level of gear. Maxdps.com doesn't take into account 2pc and claims at around 9k AP, 25% crit 3.6 speed weapon, 251 DPS weapon in a perfect rotation 20haste rating>20 str.

Take this with a grain of salt, and find something better calibrated to your gear before dropping thousands of gold on the switch.

[Thilia]

Actually, this is wrong. Haste does directly effect how many divine storms you use in a fight. Haste also gives benefits to ALL instant attacks, due to the decreased GCD timer. At some point haste > str, is it obtainable in current gear levels? probably not. A better place to check would be Elitistjerks.com searching for a good spreadsheet or a good config of rawr, rather then just asking here.

Haste will *always* be the best stat at *some* point, the question is whether that point is obtainable in the current level of gear. Maxdps.com doesn't take into account 2pc and claims at around 9k AP, 25% crit 3.6 speed weapon, 251 DPS weapon in a perfect rotation 20haste rating>20 str.

Take this with a grain of salt, and find something better calibrated to your gear before dropping thousands of gold on the switch.

Haste doesn't affect physical GCD, only spells.

Your Crusaderpoke and Divine Storm will have 1.5s GCDs but your Flash of Light might have a 1.34 GCD.

[Nillo]

Haste also gives benefits to ALL instant attacks, due to the decreased GCD timer
Haste will *always* be the best stat at *some* point, the question is whether that point is obtainable in the current level of gear.

1) Only instant spells (Consecration + Exorcism) not instant attacks (everything else)
2) It won't be

[Yoshimiko]

Haste doesn't affect physical GCD, only spells.

Your Crusaderpoke and Divine Storm will have 1.5s GCDs but your Flash of Light might have a 1.34 GCD.

Ahh, My mistake- However haste does still effect divine storm due to 2pc.

[Thilia]

Ahh, My mistake- However haste does still effect divine storm due to 2pc.

That doesn't mean that it will be better at any point of gear level.

As for Cataclsym, its too early to speculate on anything with the truckload of changes that will follow open beta.

[Yoshimiko]

That doesn't mean that it will be better at any point of gear level.

As for Cataclsym, its too early to speculate on anything with the truckload of changes that will follow open beta.

Haste is always better at *some* gear level due to the way it scales, like I said the question is whether or not that's an obtainable gear level is the question.

I highly suggest running a sim rather then asking around.

[Skulldancer]

i have over 593 haste http://www.wow-heroes.com/index.php?...me=Skulldancer.... i have more haste ret than alot of holy pallys. Is this too much?

[Ronark]

Haste doesn't affect physical GCD, only spells.

Yet.

[Nillo]

Haste is always better at *some* gear level due to the way it scales

What's special about linear scaling?

[Bluepants]

With specific items (Such as Bryntroll, TAiaJ, or Shadowmourne) Haste has been shown to dance with crit as far as stat value, and at very high gear levels (HM ICC) has been shown to come out ahead of crit. The reason you don't gem it is because, as soon as a 2nd target gets thrown into the mix, crit vastly outdoes haste.

[Nillo]

The reason you don't gem it is because, as soon as a 2nd target gets thrown into the mix, crit vastly outdoes haste.

Why would haste become worse with more targets involved o0?
- Seal of Command and DS profit from haste.
- Stacking of SoV is faster with haste.
And rawr also tells me, that the number of targets doesn't affect the relative stat values of haste and crit (haste even gets better with 4 or more targets involved !_!)

[macke]

i have over 593 haste http://www.wow-heroes.com/index.php?...me=Skulldancer.... i have more haste ret than alot of holy pallys. Is this too much?

No not at all, myself I am at 550~ aswell without tier chest and TAJ ;]~.

If any holy paladin got less then 900 haste its just lol.