Why do people hate ToC? (the raid)

[xionkarl]

I see a lot of ToC hate on the forums everyday, and I don't understand why. It's not that I think it's a great instance and I don't know why someone wouldn't like it, it's just that I've never really thought of it as that bad.

No trash, five new bosses, well, four new bosses and Anub re-done, separate lockouts for reg and heroic. What's the thing about it that people do not like?

I enjoyed not having to deal with any trash for once, it was a nice break.

[Miled995]

Because its two rooms. The same room. 4 Times a week. For months. Same bosses. No trash, no perks. It was godawful, and I really doubt any raid will compare to the failure of an instance Trial of the Crusader was.

[jonfauscett]

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=35575
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=35576

Even Blizz knew...

[Herecius]

Because its two rooms. The same room. 4 Times a week. For months. Same bosses. No trash, no perks. It was godawful, and I really doubt any raid will compare to the failure of an instance Trial of the Crusader was.

Pretty much. It's fine now that you only have to do it if you feel like it, and probably only once - once on normal, or once on ToGC25 if your guild is capable of it. It was horrendous when it was the only thing available.

[Melonberry]

ToC is tied for my favorite raid of the expansion. Ulduar was awesome, toc was amazing and had no trash.

Really...No one likes trash.

And the 5 bosses were all creative. Easily some of the most unique ones of the expansion.

[chronomasakari]

ToC was sort of a cheap attempt at a raid at first. But after months of farming it you appreciate not having to deal with trash and traverse these huge raids. Course what ended up happening is we'd end up going back to Ulduar some more. As if we weren't there enough already.

[shagrarz]

It made me miss trash...a lot. Just staring at those same walls every lockout. The only variance that I ever saw in that God forsaken instance was in the comp of Champs, and the comp of my own raid. Now that ICC is out you can actually feel like you 'accomplished' something if you clear the instance in one night. TOC was a joke...and a bad one at that.

[Marcalo]

The reasons I hated TOC... It made no sense lore wise... I mean... hey lets fight to the death right on arthas's doorstep to feed his army. Granted this isn't the first lolore... but it was very annoying. Secondly running the same thing 4 times a week was so tiring. Lastly... Faction Champs... I hate pvp, I hate anything that seems like pvp. On mage it was tolerable because I could blow up a target really quickly, but on lock I wanted to /wrist.

[shamaster]

lorewise.....

do u really think toc should have been a higher tier than yogg? i mean really? titans and old gods v a bunch of scrubs the argent crusade wrangled up

ulduar was so epic and rich lorewise, going into a titan city to fight an old god
toc was like ohh i am in a circus this shit must be hard

also imo trigger hardmodes > herioc settings

13 bosses + trash v 5 bosses with no trash

no lore + redundancy
is y i think toc sucked

[Sylviane]

Blizzard: "we're giving you FOUR NEW RAIDS!"

Us: "you mean ONE NEW RAID?"

Blizzard: "but... there are 4 lockouts!"

Us: "with a grand total of 5 bosses..."

Blizzard: "-with not ONE, but TWO Jormungar!"

Us: "so about those 10-man trinkets... why are they worse than every purple 200?"

Blizzard: "oh, trinkets and iLevel have nothing to do with each other."

Us: "we've noticed."

[Cactrot]

I think it's funny that people whined so much about trash for so long. They get rid of trash, everyone still whines. What should they do, have a boss, then a long walk on the beach to the next boss/room? Then everyone would complain about the walk too.

Somewhere someone hates any given thing. ICC ToC Naxx are just small examples. Hell, there are people out there who hate bunnies. Don't worry about the haters?

[Pojodan]

ToC is akin to watching a remake of a classic done in a trite, cliche manner that dashes your fond memories but, at the very least, releives you of the stress of wondering when it will be over with, and once its over you can safely go back to remembering the original as it once was.

ToC was, basically, Blizz doing something it knew it had to do at least once, despite the fact that it's flawed to begin with. It made sense and fit, lore-wise, and was a 'new' was of doing things, so it was done, with enough camp and silliness to try to make up for it's main flaws.

I don't hate it, really, as it was a refreshing pause from the standard of lengthy corpse-runs that we all came to loathe in Naxx (or BT, or MC, what-have-you), even though I'm definately happy to put that period behind me.

[Helansin]

i liked the idea of a short raid to pass the time, but the lack of atmosphere and trash made it very stale. The boss fights (except faction champs - pvp can gtfo) where kind of fun, if a little re-used. the had nice twists.. would have been nice to have seen them in a proper dungeon with some trash.

[blargh312]

The boss encounters themselves were actually very well done in my opinion. Probably tuned a little too easy on normal, but for the most part they were unique and creative fights. But that doesn't change the fact that the instance itself was a total snoozefest. No trash and no real change of scenery made it incredibly tedious, even if it does take only ~30 minutes to clear on reg.

[Shamslam]

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=35575
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=35576

Even Blizz knew...

Never noticed that...omg

[xionkarl]

Alright, I can definitely understand a lot of these arguments, but if you look at the expansion as a whole you have...

Entry Content
-Naxxramas; 13 bosses (might have missed one)
-Obsidian Sanctum; 4 bosses
-Eye of Eternity; 1 Boss

Next Tier
-Ulduar; 14 bosses (including Algalon, but not the other hard modes as individual bosses)

Next Tier
-Trial of the Crusader; 5 bosses (Heroic was it's own separate lockout)
-Onyxia; 1 boss

Last Tier
-Icecrown Citadel; 12 bosses
-Ruby Sanctum; 4 bosses

For a total of around 54 bosses in this expansion. Sure ToC was boring having nothing else to do besides Onyxia for 4 months, but it was more free time to do other stuff aside from raiding, which can be just as enjoyable.

I did like ToC as a whole, it did get boring after a while, but meh, everything will. ICC doesn't even have the same excitement now that our guild has killed the Lich King. Downing new bosses on hard mode is fun indeed, but it doesn't seem to give that same feeling that it did the first time the boss was killed.

Edit: Forgot to add my whole point of this reply. I enjoyed the "break" ToC provided after two tiers of fairly large and lengthy raids.

[Dark Side]

At the very least they should have made TOC a prerequisite for ICC, wasn't that the whole idea of the tournement anywAy

[Orumis]

Some people like trash, some people don't. Some people like simplicity, some people don't They can't please everyone.

Alright, I can definitely understand a lot of these arguments, but if you look at the expansion as a whole you have...

Entry Content
-Naxxramas; 13 bosses (might have missed one)
-Obsidian Sanctum; 4 bosses
-Eye of Eternity; 1 Boss

Next Tier
-Ulduar; 14 bosses (including Algalon, but not the other hard modes as individual bosses)

Next Tier
-Trial of the Crusader; 5 bosses (Heroic was it's own separate lockout)
-Onyxia; 1 boss

Last Tier
-Icecrown Citadel; 12 bosses
-Ruby Sanctum; 4 bosses

For a total of around 54 bosses in this expansion. Sure ToC was boring having nothing else to do besides Onyxia for 4 months, but it was more free time to do other stuff aside from raiding, which can be just as enjoyable.

I did like ToC as a whole, it did get boring after a while, but meh, everything will. ICC doesn't even have the same excitement now that our guild has killed the Lich King. Downing new bosses on hard mode is fun indeed, but it doesn't seem to give that same feeling that it did the first time the boss was killed.

Edit: Forgot to add my whole point of this reply. I enjoyed the "break" ToC provided after two tiers of fairly large and lengthy raids.

RS and OS are 1 boss each, and you forgot VoA.

[Baygon]

they could have made a couple more rooms if they wanted too, but it was annoying back during the day, but yeah it wasn't completely unbearable

[Deleted]

Permanent pressure when you were clearing hardmodes. A single fuckup on any boss could cause you to miss out on the best loot for this week. A single misstep on Icehowl. A single second of not catching balls on Twins. Not to forget the healing disaster that is Anub P3.