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  1. #21

    Re: Blue Fire VS Blue Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkforCalde
    Where, when you sign up for WoW, does it anywhere guarantee challenge?

    Why would you say that personal limitations intended to enhance difficulty would EVER be an insult against the game?
    Games that aren't challenging aren't fun. When the main way of being challenged is to impose irrational restrictions on yourself - not because you're so good that hard modes aren't hard, but because there simply isn't an appropriate difficulty level otherwise - that's kinda balls.

    The difference between your RE4 example and our discussion of WoW bosses is just that - you mastered RE4 and still had fun with it by imposing restrictions on yourself (and this could be said about a lot of games - the Final Fantasy series springs to mind), but I'd venture to guess a fair number of us have problems with ICC because the first half is faceroll but required to get to the challenging part. My old guild had that problem, and it wasn't like we could just turn on hard modes since we hadn't downed LK by the time I quit.

    (Am I making any sense? I should just go to sleep. The point is that player-imposed challenges because it's fun and you've mastered all the other challenges are ok, but player-imposed challenges because the game otherwise doesn't have an appropriate difficulty level for you feels artificial.)

  2. #22

    Re: Blue Fire VS Blue Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Ormula
    It looks like they're using everything you could get when you were starting Naxx. Blue quality gems, but some are using JC gems, et cetera.
    I get that, using only what was available at Wraths begining and only blue quality gear, gems etc. But if you can use the EPIC legs enchants, why cant they use the Exaulted Hodir Shoulder enchants (Part of their guidlines say this one specifically)?

  3. #23

    Re: Blue Fire VS Blue Gear

    OMG U GAIZ DOWNED MARROWGAR IN BLUES, WOTLK IS TOO EASY! WOTLK SUCKS VANILLA WAS THE BEST!!!!!one11111one1111



    Great job guys, I look forward to hearing more of your success!
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  4. #24

    Re: Blue Fire VS Blue Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoying
    My issue with the whole "in blues" thing is that it makes up for laziness on blizzard's part. I shouldn't have to artificially lower my stats to be challenged.
    Do hardmodes. And now, do them without the buff.

  5. #25

    Re: Blue Fire VS Blue Gear

    gratz dude, for the accomplishment AND being creative in finding new and exciting challenges.

    heck i'd try this out myself if i didn't delete all my old gear, however i doubt we'd be able to get enough guildies who want to try that sort of thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoying
    My issue with the whole "in blues" thing is that it makes up for laziness on blizzard's part. I shouldn't have to artificially lower my stats to be challenged.
    don't think like that, almost every game has an easy/medium/hard mode.
    if you cant put in the effort to make your own challenges, then how are you going to put in any effort to overcome challenges proposed by blizzard... i'm confused.

    sure blizzard can make it ridiculously hard, however what then would be the point of having the gear?

    i propose then a new mmorpg in which the gear does nothing except look cooler with more bling and flash, however the stats are not changed... that way, the game will always be a challenge!!! :

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer
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    Re: Blue Fire VS Blue Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Armond
    Games that aren't challenging aren't fun.
    Stopped reading here. This isn't true at all and has never been true. You can feel that you only have fun when you are challenged but that certainly is not the case for me or for the majority of gamers. You can't make blanket statements like this that are 100% subjective and state them in any sort of declarative fashion and expect to be taken seriously.

  7. #27

    Re: Blue Fire VS Blue Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinettik
    I get that, using only what was available at Wraths begining and only blue quality gear, gems etc. But if you can use the EPIC legs enchants, why cant they use the Exaulted Hodir Shoulder enchants (Part of their guidlines say this one specifically)?
    The quick answer is that Epic leg enchants are allowed so that people have a choice in the professions they pick, otherwise everybody would be JC/Tailor or JC/LW.

    Quote Originally Posted by xionkarl
    Great job guys, I look forward to hearing more of your success!
    Over the weekend I hope to rework the OP and add more information (rules of the "game", etc.). I will also be making regular updates about our progress on this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Armond
    I don't see any tanks getting one-shot in that video. That said, because of the ICC buff, I'd be more interested in a yogg video.
    Yogg Saron is, as of yet, unkilled by the Undergeared guild. However, Gevlon has already took a group, fitted it in blues and killed Yogg (and everything up to him, of course) before. That's basically the event that gave him the idea of starting the guild.

    Now that we have someone FRAPS'ing the encounters, I'll link the videos whenever I update the thread.
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    Ardoric <Undergeared> Raiding in blues 'cause gear is overrated (8/12 ICC 10 | 3/4 RS 10)

    Quote Originally Posted by ardoRic
    You argue that you need gear to compensate stupidity, I argue that you shouldn't take stupid to your raids.

  8. #28

    Re: Blue Fire VS Blue Gear


  9. #29
    Fluffy Kitten Annoying's Avatar
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    Re: Blue Fire VS Blue Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkforCalde
    ... what?

    Where, when you sign up for WoW, does it anywhere guarantee challenge?

    Why would you say that personal limitations intended to enhance difficulty would EVER be an insult against the game?

    I played Resident Evil 4 so many times that even pro mode was no challenge. So I challenged myself by limiting my weapon choices to nothing but handguns. Sure made it more challenging and I had a blast doing it. Is this a knock against the game? Of course not. Only someone absolutely delusional would ever even insinuate that it was.
    When I signed up for wow, there *was* challenge. There was challenge for the majority of this game's lifespan. When I signed up, I hoped there would be challenge and there was. It's not an issue of "this game promised to be challenging", it's an issue of "this game used to be challenging, but blizzard's made it too easy." The resident evil analogy implies that RE4 was challenging at some point. Short of a few keynote encounters, this isn't the case with nearly the entire expansion thus far. I would have a completely different stance if the game was challenging, I happily cleared all the content, and then began artificially limiting myself. There's a huge difference between limiting for additional challenge, and artificial limiting because there's no challenge in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by xeroxide
    if you cant put in the effort to make your own challenges, then how are you going to put in any effort to overcome challenges proposed by blizzard... i'm confused.
    I, and many others, don't enjoy making my own challenges. At least not in other people's video games. I know how my mind works, and simply developing a challenge for myself ruins a large part of that challenge. It's like trying to play chess with yourself. It's very easy to beat yourself in chess when you know the next move. I don't get what's so wrong about wanting hard content. I'm not hoping blizzard puts an insanely difficult boss at the beginning of a normal mode instance. I'm hoping blizzard puts the hard back in hard mode.
    sure blizzard can make it ridiculously hard, however what then would be the point of having the gear?
    Gear can be part of the challenge. Fights like brutallus had a significant gear check on top of the skill check to perform burns/tank swaps/slash management. Gear checks will probably never exist again, because they hamper the average player's ability to jump right into current content. That leads me to this question: What's the point of having gear now? You imply it has some meaning in a thread proving that it doesn't matter.
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  10. #30

    Re: Blue Fire VS Blue Gear

    Blizzard can't raise the difficulty, because they always want more players, and more players means, more people want to kill stuff, and for that stuff needs to be killed easier, because a lot of the players right now, can not afford the time it needs to master the Hardmodes.

    How many people saw Naxx 1.0? maybe 1/3? If you keep this going, they lose players, cause every player wants to see everything.

    Btw. did anyone ever ytry AQ in Blue Stuff? or Black Temple? Maybe that was possible too? What you Guys always forget is, that many players have played wow since 3+ years, and simply know what to do if the boss does this or that. Put ICC in vanilla, and we would probably still fighting LK normal mode.

  11. #31

    Re: Blue Fire VS Blue Gear

    Wow! Congrats and best of luck with Deathwhisper and chums.

  12. #32

    Re: Blue Fire VS Blue Gear

    I cheer for the guys/galls doing this on a regular basis for the thrill and fun of it. If you are interested in either a Hunter or Shaman (both still 70 but done the leveling before) give me a shout, I don't mind transferring for this much awesome-sauce! :P

    Good luck and God speed for future encounters!
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    Pilot: There are snakes on the plane.
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  13. #33
    Warchief Sarcasm's Avatar
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    Re: Blue Fire VS Blue Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by habla2k
    How many people saw Naxx 1.0? maybe 1/3?
    1/50, by Blizzard's numbers.
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  14. #34
    Ardoric Sollis Ardodeath. Proud pet collector

    Ardoric <Undergeared> Raiding in blues 'cause gear is overrated (8/12 ICC 10 | 3/4 RS 10)

    Quote Originally Posted by ardoRic
    You argue that you need gear to compensate stupidity, I argue that you shouldn't take stupid to your raids.

  15. #35

    Re: Blue Fire VS Blue Gear

    That DK did a significant amount more damage than anyone else. OPOPOPOP.

  16. #36

    Re: Blue Fire VS Blue Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Ormula
    That DK did a significant amount more damage than anyone else. OPOPOPOP.
    On LDW he was sitting on the boss, plus he's the one of us with 10/12 HC experience in ICC.
    Ardoric Sollis Ardodeath. Proud pet collector

    Ardoric <Undergeared> Raiding in blues 'cause gear is overrated (8/12 ICC 10 | 3/4 RS 10)

    Quote Originally Posted by ardoRic
    You argue that you need gear to compensate stupidity, I argue that you shouldn't take stupid to your raids.

  17. #37

    Re: Blue Fire VS Blue Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by ardoRic
    On LDW he was sitting on the boss, plus he's the one of us with 10/12 HC experience in ICC.
    On your Marrowgar attempt he was still top by a lot, and even had damage on bone spikes.

  18. #38

    Re: Blue Fire VS Blue Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Fojos
    Do hardmodes. And now, do them without the buff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Armond
    My old guild had that problem, and it wasn't like we could just turn on hard modes since we hadn't downed LK by the time I quit.
    My point was that there were five bosses (put, blood council, blood queen, green dragon, sindragosa) that were in that "challenging but doable" zone for us. The rest of the weekly runs was just grind. And since we were blocked by the dragons, we didn't get a solid shot at LK.

    Yes, the guild was reasonably bad. No, I'm not a stellar player by any measure. No, I didn't change guilds for a "better" one. That doesn't change the fact that there's such a huge gap in the difficulty of the first and second halves of ICC.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkforCalde
    Stopped reading here. This isn't true at all and has never been true. You can feel that you only have fun when you are challenged but that certainly is not the case for me or for the majority of gamers. You can't make blanket statements like this that are 100% subjective and state them in any sort of declarative fashion and expect to be taken seriously.
    You are, in all seriousness, the first person I've ever known to say that. Do you honestly have fun in games where you steamroll your way through everything? Do you have fun when there's no choice - just "do this thing in all circumstances"? Can you keep doing that for hours on end, comparable to raids? If so, why bother turning up the difficulty on RE4, as in your previous example? I agree that burning through games like The Lion King (SNES) in half an hour can be invigorating, but I wouldn't call it fun and I certainly wouldn't do it twice in a row.

    If I'm not allowed to make blanket statements, you can't either. You claim that the majority of gamers feel like you do. Prove it, because the popularity of games like Rock Band, Zelda, Smash Bros, and Guild Wars Prophesies are directly counter to your statements.

  19. #39

    Re: Blue Fire VS Blue Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Armond
    You are, in all seriousness, the first person I've ever known to say that. Do you honestly have fun in games where you steamroll your way through everything?
    Well let me be the 2nd person then. Some of my favourite games are the GTA series, my favourite being Vice City. However, there were only a handfull of missions that took me more than 1 attempt to do. Yet somehow, I still had a blast doing it. Games are fun when they are challenging only when you are looking for a challenge. Sometimes you might just be looking to unwind & relax, or enjoy a decent story, or just stomp on a night elf's face.

  20. #40
    Mechagnome Doctadrew's Avatar
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    Re: Blue Fire VS Blue Gear

    With your DK tanking having below 20% dodge anyways there's no reason for him to gem it.

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