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  1. #441

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    Quote Originally Posted by Montego
    You're not complaining about the subscription you're paying for, are you? You're complaining about a service that's not forced upon you or affects you in any way just because you can't get it for free because apparently £9 a month is sufficient to see that you get everything Blizzard creates for this game.
    So it's purely coincidence that vanilla WoW wasn't launched with any pay-to-____ features? It's a slippery slope fallacy to say that this will lead to buying gear and levels with real money, but the seed has been planted. Blizzard said no PVE -> PVP transfers, then implemented them. No race changes, then implemented them. No faction changes, then implemented them. No Horde/Alliance on same PVP server, then allowed it. They've proven that nothing is set in stone. Depending on customer wants (and some $$$), anything is possible.

    As far as cash for items, it started with tickets to Blizzcon. Buy a ticket, get an in-game reward. Cosmetic, of course. Then it was plush toys with bonus in-game pets and "charity" pets on the Blizzard Store. Then it was purely digital items (mount and pet). Now it's an exclusive service.

    Watching the progression, it's not hard to imagine a WoW with both a cash shop and a monthly subscription. We're already on our way.

  2. #442
    Brock2525
    Guest

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    Quote Originally Posted by Florentzia
    About the fact that activision-blizzard spends more and more time with making micropayment content that costs extra cash, then content for the real game.

    But why i should wonder, TRH the best money maker from Activision Blizzard after wow.

    Yes an ingame Item from a store makes more profit then all the other games (besides wow) from such a big publisher.
    What a shame
    You have no proof developing this system took dev time away from the actual game. There was more database work in this than anything else and I doubt they're needed to develop content for the game.

  3. #443

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    Quote Originally Posted by Kholeric
    I never once told anyone what to do with their money, nor do I believe every individual who buys store content or paid services is stupid (in a reply to another post) - obviously these are fun purchases - if you buy them all though it is my opinion that you have more money than sense, but that is my opinion - I'm not telling anybody to do anything. Why should I be belittled for my opinions, I accept everybody elses. Flaming me so you can sit of the fence is what's embarassing. Having an "oh well, shit happens and it's none of my concern" attitude is embarrasing. Don't you have any thoughts of your own? I'm not saying Blizzard aren't an excellent service provider, nor am I saying people should not play WoW. All of the other micro sales Blizzard have made have been merely cosmetic, I believe this one tips the balance from the unnecessary into the exploitive. Just remember that some people see things and don't think, some people are addicted. These were the people I was thinking of when I made my post. Don't decry me and others opposing this addon simply for thinking beyond the "Blizzard can do what they want with their product" midset, they also have responsibilities.
    ^This.

  4. #444
    Brock2525
    Guest

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    Quote Originally Posted by potaco
    So it's purely coincidence that vanilla WoW wasn't launched with any pay-to-____ features? It's a slippery slope fallacy to say that this will lead to buying gear and levels with real money, but the seed has been planted. Blizzard said no PVE -> PVP transfers, then implemented them. No race changes, then implemented them. No faction changes, then implemented them. No Horde/Alliance on same PVP server, then allowed it. They've proven that nothing is set in stone. Depending on customer wants (and some $$$), anything is possible.

    As far as cash for items, it started with tickets to Blizzcon. Buy a ticket, get an in-game reward. Cosmetic, of course. Then it was plush toys with bonus in-game pets and "charity" pets on the Blizzard Store. Then it was purely digital items (mount and pet). Now it's an exclusive service.

    Watching the progression, it's not hard to imagine a WoW with both a cash shop and a monthly subscription. We're already on our way.
    They never said they'd never allow race/faction changes, character recustomization, PvE to PvP transfers or paid server transfers. They ALWAYS said "we have no plans" for them.

  5. #445

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    Quote Originally Posted by Brock2525
    You have no proof developing this system took dev time away from the actual game. There was more database work in this than anything else and I doubt they're needed to develop content for the game.
    The point cannot be realistically argued. Neither of you have proof that ONLY money from X was/wasn't spent on Y.

    Saying "I doubt" is not a convincing way to win an argument.

  6. #446

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    Quote Originally Posted by Brock2525
    They never said they'd never allow race/faction changes, character recustomization, PvE to PvP transfers or paid server transfers. They ALWAYS said "we have no plans" for them.
    lol

    No plans, yet here they are. They have no plans for gear/levels/characters for $$$ either. The people worth really listening to aren't the ones saying it WILL or WON'T happen, but the ones who realize that business models change and are simply afraid of what it means for the game.

  7. #447
    Brock2525
    Guest

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    Quote Originally Posted by potaco
    The point cannot be realistically argued. Neither of you have proof that ONLY money from X was/wasn't spent on Y.

    Saying "I doubt" is not a convincing way to win an argument.
    Thinking Blizzard had to take time and people away from developing raids and quests and zones and models and weapons and storyline to develop what largely amounts to direct database access to the AH, bags, mail and bank systems is pointedly retarded.

    So yeah, my argument that a couple database programmers and a web design guy who aren't needed for content development spent a few months developing this application makes a lot more sense than the opposing argument.

  8. #448

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    Quote Originally Posted by potaco
    So it's purely coincidence that vanilla WoW wasn't launched with any pay-to-____ features? It's a slippery slope fallacy to say that this will lead to buying gear and levels with real money, but the seed has been planted. Blizzard said no PVE -> PVP transfers, then implemented them. No race changes, then implemented them. No faction changes, then implemented them. No Horde/Alliance on same PVP server, then allowed it. They've proven that nothing is set in stone. Depending on customer wants (and some $$$), anything is possible.

    As far as cash for items, it started with tickets to Blizzcon. Buy a ticket, get an in-game reward. Cosmetic, of course. Then it was plush toys with bonus in-game pets and "charity" pets on the Blizzard Store. Then it was purely digital items (mount and pet). Now it's an exclusive service.

    Watching the progression, it's not hard to imagine a WoW with both a cash shop and a monthly subscription. We're already on our way.
    Cosmetic items =/=useful items.
    Tickets to BlizzCon = buy a ticket to go to a huge gaming convention and fuck with all Blizzards cool new shit, oh, and get a cool little useless in-game pet.
    Plush toys = buy a Beanie Baby, get a cool little useless in-game pet.
    Lil' KT/Lil' XT/stupidfuckinhorse = useless in-game pet/mount.

    Gameplay-wise, all of those could disappear tomorrow and nobody would be affected. Your character looks less cuddly because you aren't riding a constellation and you don't have a KT's mini-me following you. The game stays the same.
    Mobile AH is the first thing introduced that has ANY effect on your character itself, and it's in such a miniscule way that its impact is negligible. I don't understand how people see this as a bad thing. Not only is it a cool fuckin idea, but it's harmless.

  9. #449
    Brock2525
    Guest

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    Quote Originally Posted by potaco
    lol

    No plans, yet here they are. They have no plans for gear/levels/characters for $$$ either. The people worth really listening to aren't the ones saying it WILL or WON'T happen, but the ones who realize that business models change and are simply afraid of what it means for the game.
    I have no plans to go to Walt Disney World. This time next year I might have plans to do so. Those statements are purposefully worded such that they aren't binding.

    Business models do change. However, I do believe a blue or two HAS stated "NEVER" when it comes to selling in-game items for real money that significantly benefit the player that bought them over a player that didn't. I'm not entirely sure, though. And you can draw a pretty distinct line between things that feel optional (like sparkling ponies or karate pandas) and that feel mandatory (like a weapon or shoulders improve your character's stats).

  10. #450

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    This is very pathetic and just another attempt at getting more money. Only the real nerds would do this shit.

  11. #451

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    Quote Originally Posted by Brock2525
    Thinking Blizzard had to take time and people away from developing raids and quests and zones and models and weapons and storyline to develop what largely amounts to direct database access to the AH, bags, mail and bank systems is pointedly retarded.

    So yeah, my argument that a couple database programmers and a web design guy who aren't needed for content development spent a few months developing this application makes a lot more sense than the opposing argument.
    I'm not arguing the personnel issue. Obviously, there are specific roles on WoW's development team. Some do in-game artwork, some do database coding, etc.

    The point you cannot argue is the financial issue. Nobody on this forum can definitively say where the money to develop the remote AH functionality came from. In the end, does it really matter? If Blizzard is making $xx million profit per year, it's ridiculous to believe that all of it would be invested back into the game. Activision-Blizzard is not a non-profit organization. Maybe they took a portion of the profits and said, "let's invest this in a mobile auction house system." Just because they're taking in X amount of dollars each year doesn't mean we should expect X dollars worth of content.

    Quote Originally Posted by steale
    Gameplay-wise, all of those could disappear tomorrow and nobody would be affected. Your character looks less cuddly because you aren't riding a constellation and you don't have a KT's mini-me following you. The game stays the same.
    Mobile AH is the first thing introduced that has ANY effect on your character itself, and it's in such a miniscule way that its impact is negligible. I don't understand how people see this as a bad thing. Not only is it a cool fuckin idea, but it's harmless.
    Exactly, Mobile AH is the FIRST thing introduced that has any effect on your character itself. This is exactly what people were afraid of when the "first" pay services, and subsequently the "first" item shop items, were introduced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brock2525
    Business models do change. However, I do believe a blue or two HAS stated "NEVER" when it comes to selling in-game items for real money that significantly benefit the player that bought them over a player that didn't. I'm not entirely sure, though. And you can draw a pretty distinct line between things that feel optional (like sparkling ponies or karate pandas) and that feel mandatory (like a weapon or shoulders improve your character's stats).
    So now it's that Blizzard won't sell anything that "significantly" benefits the purchaser? Who draws that line?

    Extra socket for $5? That's not very significant.
    Potions to increase XP gain by 50% for an hour? That's not very significant either.
    Self-rez elixir? Only worth a few minutes and some silver.
    Premium chat channels? It's just chat, who cares?
    Premium races/classes? They're all balanced, so where's the benefit really?
    Premium queues? Getting into a random 5 min quicker isn't really significant, right?
    Extra character/bank slots? No big deal!
    etc
    etc

    And the doubt about whether a blue has said the word "never" is why people are scared. (Not that "never" from a blue poster really means "never")

  12. #452
    Brock2525
    Guest

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    All that shit you listed is far more beneficial to the player than being able to buy and sell on the AH on your iPhone when you're stuck in traffic. If you can't see that, then I'm not going to argue it with you. Your argument is on principle alone, which is noble, but irrational.

  13. #453

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    Quote Originally Posted by Undercovercracker
    This is very pathetic and just another attempt at getting more money. Only the real nerds would do this shit.

    /gasp! a business selling an additional product to make additional money! gawd, they're so pathetic. wtf are they thinking? who does that!?!?

    Also, real nerds, or someone who had $3 a month to spend on this. Because $3 is a lot of money, right? That's, like, totally 8 months of mobile AH that could have gone to like, buying a starry horse, or over a year, buying 2 large pizzas from dominos.

  14. #454

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    Quote Originally Posted by Brock2525
    All that shit you listed is far more beneficial to the player than being able to buy and sell on the AH on your iPhone when you're stuck in traffic. If you can't see that, then I'm not going to argue it with you. Your argument is on principle alone, which is noble, but irrational.
    this. at least 3 or 4 times.

  15. #455

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    Quote Originally Posted by Brock2525
    All that shit you listed is far more beneficial to the player than being able to buy and sell on the AH on your iPhone when you're stuck in traffic. If you can't see that, then I'm not going to argue it with you. Your argument is on principle alone, which is noble, but irrational.
    I can obviously see that. But where do you draw the line? When does it go TOO far?

    What about:

    $x/month subscription to have AH take 1% less of their cut of the sale?
    $x/month subscription to get 1 extra bag slot
    $x/month subscription to upgrade backpack to 18 slots

  16. #456

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    If the day ever arrives when you can buy things that will give you a significant advantage over another player then this moaning is entirely justified, for cosmetic items and a phone app it's just laughable.

    As for 'having my own thoughts' this just reads as if I have been brainwashed but the truth is I can see that these items mean nothing to me and they won't take a penny from my pocket while I'm playing this game so what is there for me to complain about? Don't give me the addict sad story and that Blizzard should know better because that's just a cop out for something so insignificant in the long run.

  17. #457

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    Also MUCH more impacting than mobile AH. mobile AH is just logging into a wow function without having to be at your computer. no different from people who use a laptop, or from those who are able to get wow running on an ipad or other mobile device, except blizzards version has much less functionality. the AH doesn't do anything for you, it doesn't make your character special in any way. that's why it's not crossing any boundaries.

  18. #458

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    Well that's not entirely true, Race/server/faction changes actually have an effect on your character, certainly much more so than a subscription service that... Allows you to do something you can already do anyways....


    Remember those trinkets in Shattrah City that cost a ton of gold, did nothing, and have flavor text saying they'd let you eat food to regain health or return as a ghost when you died?

    It's like you're looking at those items and then complaining that someone who buys them gets an absurd character advantage....

    And all of your mock suggestions Potacto give real character advantages beyond what's currently available in game, even the paid services that do give you an advantage ( dunno why you're complaining about the AH instead of them ) can be perfectly emulated with enough time spent in game

    although to be fair, I might be willing to maybe spend a small fee to skip some of fhe level grind >_>

  19. #459
    Brock2525
    Guest

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    Quote Originally Posted by potaco
    I can obviously see that. But where do you draw the line? When does it go TOO far?

    What about:

    $x/month subscription to have AH take 1% less of their cut of the sale?
    $x/month subscription to get 1 extra bag slot
    $x/month subscription to upgrade backpack to 18 slots
    Personally, I draw that line at selling gear or items that grant stat boosts. If the advantage granted by purchasing something from the Blizzard store can be measured in a raid or PvP, then its too big of an advantage. Kung Fu pandas or an extra bag slot don't affect the game in that manner. Neither does a mobile AH.

  20. #460

    Re: Introducing the Remote Auction House

    Quote Originally Posted by steale
    Also MUCH more impacting than mobile AH. mobile AH is just logging into a wow function without having to be at your computer. no different from people who use a laptop, or from those who are able to get wow running on an ipad or other mobile device, except blizzards version has much less functionality. the AH doesn't do anything for you, it doesn't make your character special in any way. that's why it's not crossing any boundaries.
    Weird. I didn't realize they added functionality to create auctions from your mailbox/bank items for everyone from anywhere in Azeroth/Outland and to collect the items/gold without traveling... oh wait.... well, hey, that's not really a benefit, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylari
    Well that's not entirely true, Race/server/faction changes actually have an effect on your character, certainly much more so than a subscription service that... Allows you to do something you can already do anyways....


    Remember those trinkets in Shattrah City that cost a ton of gold, did nothing, and have flavor text saying they'd let you eat food to regain health or return as a ghost when you died?

    It's like you're looking at those items and then complaining that someone who buys them gets an absurd character advantage....

    And all of your mock suggestions Potacto give real character advantages beyond what's currently available in game, even the paid services that do give you an advantage ( dunno why you're complaining about the AH instead of them ) can be perfectly emulated with enough time spent in game

    although to be fair, I might be willing to maybe spend a small fee to skip some of fhe level grind >_>
    I'm not complaining about the AH functionality... I'm pointing out a potentially game-changing trend towards cash for in-game benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brock2525
    Personally, I draw that line at selling gear or items that grant stat boosts. If the advantage granted by purchasing something from the Blizzard store can be measured in a raid or PvP, then its too big of an advantage. Kung Fu pandas or an extra bag slot don't affect the game in that manner. Neither does a mobile AH.
    Good to see that Blizzard will be deferring the decision of what is acceptable to you personally. Whatever Brock says goes!

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