Which ICC weapon?

[boazjuggalo]

Well I got my Nibelung a few weeks back and have basically kept it around for the novelty more than the stats. Got some spares sitting in the bank. Kinda wondering what the general consensus is on the weapons right now.

Armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...g&cn=Darkdread
My weapons: http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items...81;51788;50771

Edit: I fixed the wowhead link.

[Pullup]

Forget the weapon you have 19% hit....
You are hit caped without a boomkin or any hit talent...

[boazjuggalo]

Even a 251 frost needle with a 232 offhand from totc 10 is better than that staff.

Pretty much unless you are using the weapon from kt that staff isn't better

Well the 10totc weapon isn't a weapon I own and isn't on my list, so your point is null and void. If you count the offhand that I listed your gaining:
47 crit
54 haste
106 hit (i'm already 2% over where i need to be)

but I lose 54sp. Is gaining 47 crit and 54 haste really worth a lose of 54sp which is my main stat?

Considering the rule i've always heard for yellow sockets is only use a reckless if you are gaining at least 5sp it leads me to think that 23sp = 17sp + 10haste... seems like that would make the haste gain on the frost needle insignificant over the sp from the staff. The crit i'm kinda ignoring since it's next to last on our priority list of Hit>SP>Haste>Spi>Crit>Int listed in the sticky.

[marmion]

In my opinion, keep Nibelung. I've been using it for a while and apart from being pretty good, the proc is awesome. You're over hitcap already so the mh+oh combos you posted (all with hit) and also Abracadaver would push you even further over the hitcap.

As with Nibelung vs. Maghari, you are trading 80 spell power and the valkyr proc against 136 haste and 126 spirit.

In the wowhead comparison tool, you can also make item sets (like oh+mh) and add gems and enchant. Your initial comparison with enchants and gems:
http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items...1.0.3834:50781

[Deleted]

id keep Nibelung until you can get either http://www.wowhead.com/item=50068 with an good off hand preferably the one from BP. or http://www.wowhead.com/item=50181 (currently using that one)

[marmion]

Nibelung is awful when you have better choices like even Frost Needle + Scourgelord's Baton are better choices.

Of course, you get 50 more spellpower with Nibelung, but the proc is not reliable plus you lose a ton of haste and crit, and while these are not as king as Spellpower is, it's something you can't neglect either.

Comparison for this case:
Benefits Nibelung:
+50 Spell
+ Valkyr proc (~3% of total damage done)

Benefits Frost Needle + Baton (251)
+13 Int
+21 Stam
+47 crit (1.02%)
+54 haste (1.65%)
(+106 hit (useless here))

So keeping Nibelung will give you 50 more spellpower, and the proc usually (but not always) does more dmg than you will get from the haste & crit on FH+SB.

[vision2]

In General, I prefer MH+OH over 2H

You have more flexibility and normally get more Spellpower out of an MH+OH combination (assumed evrery Item has the same level)

[Jessicka]

Nibelung is worth it's item level. Much as it pains to me to say it, the MH slot is the singular slot where ilvl will actually trump all else, simply because it scales far better than any other slot. You gain nearly 100SP using Nibelung over any other 251 staff, which is not made up by other stats; furthermore the proc is worth about ~250DPS, which is really quite significant when you consider what 'other' stats are worth from a MH/OH at 251 level. Use it. It's good. If you were comparing it to other 264s, I'd be inclined to suggest pretty much anything else, but that isn't an option for you right now.

[Warlocomotif]

Wow, people here are freaking idiots. From the idiot shaman thinking Nibelung is BiS to the utterly stupid "anything is better than nibelung". All idiots.

1. Valkyrs are not useless, theyre worth DPS
2. The amount of DPS they're worth depends on your cast frequency
3. The amount of DPS secondary stats are worth depends on all your current stats.
4. Valkyrs are super RNG, despite the higher proc chance now you can still easily go an entire fight with no procs
5. Valkyrs still die from most aoe effects, though not as quickly as they used to.

*generally*:
Staff / Main hand of the same ilvl > Nibelung
Staff / Main hand of a lower ilvl < Nibelung

Mind you that's assuming your alternative has useful stats, a staff with lots of hit would be worse even if the same item level, since the hit would be wasted on you.

[Simon_Moon]

I have Nibelung, and switched back to the non heroic saurfang staff. For Affliction haste is almost as good as Spellpower, even overtaking it when the average ilevel gets higher than 264.
Furthermore 50% Spirit =Spellpower if you have the BiS Glyphs. So the Spellpower increase is smaller than it seems, you get a ton of haste and the valkyrs simple die too often for my taste.
Heroic Version would be best in Slot before Arthas 25.

Getting a good Mainhand/Offhand Combo when being hitcapped is also not easy in ICC without downing Arthas.

[boazjuggalo]

Nibelung is worth it's item level. Much as it pains to me to say it, the MH slot is the singular slot where ilvl will actually trump all else, simply because it scales far better than any other slot. You gain nearly 100SP using Nibelung over any other 251 staff, which is not made up by other stats; furthermore the proc is worth about ~250DPS, which is really quite significant when you consider what 'other' stats are worth from a MH/OH at 251 level. Use it. It's good. If you were comparing it to other 264s, I'd be inclined to suggest pretty much anything else, but that isn't an option for you right now.

Wow, people here are freaking idiots. From the idiot shaman thinking Nibelung is BiS to the utterly stupid "anything is better than nibelung". All idiots.

1. Valkyrs are not useless, theyre worth DPS
2. The amount of DPS they're worth depends on your cast frequency
3. The amount of DPS secondary stats are worth depends on all your current stats.
4. Valkyrs are super RNG, despite the higher proc chance now you can still easily go an entire fight with no procs
5. Valkyrs still die from most aoe effects, though not as quickly as they used to.

*generally*:
Staff / Main hand of the same ilvl > Nibelung
Staff / Main hand of a lower ilvl < Nibelung

Mind you that's assuming your alternative has useful stats, a staff with lots of hit would be worse even if the same item level, since the hit would be wasted on you.

I just wanted to say thanks to both of you. You are pretty much the only real help in these 2 pages. You gave me an answer with information other than "lawl thats bad". Thank you both.

[Killainstnct]

In all Honesty and jackassery aside,
Mag'hari is the best providing 136 haste and 657 SP plus about another ~66 SP with LT glyph and Improved Fel Armor(Demonic Aegis Talent)
Considering SP is king and in your gear Haste is very very close to Spellpower in pure DPS, go Mag'hari over all the others, Nibelung is nice if it procs heaps, but you really do notice that missing haste, its best left to boomkins who hit their Haste cap so damn easily.

[HavocLock]

In all Honesty and jackassery aside,
Mag'hari is the best providing 136 haste and 657 SP plus about another ~66 SP with LT glyph and Improved Fel Armor(Demonic Aegis Talent)
Considering SP is king and in your gear Haste is very very close to Spellpower in pure DPS, go Mag'hari over all the others, Nibelung is nice if it procs heaps, but you really do notice that missing haste, its best left to boomkins who hit their Haste cap so damn easily.

^ Disagree... yes probably better than Nibelung (not a fan of rng), but there are better MH/OH options if you can get them.

Wow, people here are freaking idiots. From the idiot shaman thinking Nibelung is BiS to the utterly stupid "anything is better than nibelung". All idiots.

1. Valkyrs are not useless, theyre worth DPS
2. The amount of DPS they're worth depends on your cast frequency
3. The amount of DPS secondary stats are worth depends on all your current stats.
4. Valkyrs are super RNG, despite the higher proc chance now you can still easily go an entire fight with no procs
5. Valkyrs still die from most aoe effects, though not as quickly as they used to.

*generally*:
Staff / Main hand of the same ilvl > Nibelung
Staff / Main hand of a lower ilvl < Nibelung

Mind you that's assuming your alternative has useful stats, a staff with lots of hit would be worse even if the same item level, since the hit would be wasted on you.

^ Agreed

Also, I got Nibelung on my first ICC raid after taking a break from raiding for 6 months. It was a nice upgrade from Seethe, especially considering I was running Demo... however - it has been a pain in the ass to get an upgrade since. I get "you already have a 264 weapon" or "you're Demo so it doesn't matter". Sigh I wish I never got that damn thing. Much easier to be considered for an upgrade if I was still rocking Seethe.. or even better TTT! If you have little control over loot (loot council, etc) I would not recommend grabbing Nibelung.

[Warlocomotif]

In all Honesty and jackassery aside,
Mag'hari is the best providing 136 haste and 657 SP plus about another ~66 SP with LT glyph and Improved Fel Armor(Demonic Aegis Talent)
Considering SP is king and in your gear Haste is very very close to Spellpower in pure DPS, go Mag'hari over all the others, Nibelung is nice if it procs heaps, but you really do notice that missing haste, its best left to boomkins who hit their Haste cap so damn easily.

The Valkyrs are worth more DPS than the haste from Maghari, unless you're talking about maghari heroic- Nibelung will beat it.

[gherkin]

I just deleted half of this thread. I was in my right to ban some of you but you had half-decent contributions in other threads/forums. Stop being tools.

[Dethh]

Nibelung for aoe trash and MH OH for a boss.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&cn=Dethdealer