What a disc priest does for your raid!

[Samurai]

<snip>

I do all that already. I really really hate the shield spam mechanics of disc priests, which is the same as the renew spam holy play style, hate that too.

[Calendra12345]

It's been said before, but I'll say it again. A shield for the sake of shielding isn't your top spell.

False, shielding is the way to heal, prayer of mending at its time is fine aswell. Shields = your top healing spell. You can't just say "Prayer of Healing does 30k and shield does 13k, so Prayer of healing is more effective lol" its about you never doing any overhealing with your shields, therefore if played right, you can blanket all damage coming out. The main reason why you bring disc priest is shields.

3. Should almost never be going to Shadow Priests because they're currently the lowest DPS caster, but yes it's a nice DPS cool-down.

Shadowpriests scale the best with PI, as 2/3 dots benefit from haste.

[Revitalize]

False, shielding is the way to heal, prayer of mending at its time is fine aswell. Shields = your top healing spell. You can't just say "Prayer of Healing does 30k and shield does 13k, so Prayer of healing is more effective lol" its about you never doing any overhealing with your shields, therefore if played right, you can blanket all damage coming out. The main reason why you bring disc priest is shields.

Shadowpriests scale the best with PI, as 2/3 dots benefit from haste.

PI doesn't scale your haste rating on spells and DoTs.
Only casting speed.

[Calendra12345]

PI doesn't scale your haste rating on spells and DoTs.
Only casting speed.

Are you sure, it is "Spell Haste" even though the tooltip states otherwise (Wowwiki description: Infuses the target with power, increasing their spell haste by 20% and reducing the mana cost of all spells by 20%. Lasts for 15 seconds. This will not stack with other haste effects, such as Heroism or Bloodlust. )

I may be wrong, never really tested it, just assumed it is spell haste - I will test it as soon as I get home

edit: When I think about it I am sure its actually spell haste, my global cooldowns as disc are reduced when I cast PI on myself, therefore it is spellhaste, and not just the casting time.

"Changed to 20% spell haste in patch 2.4."

Source: Wowhead



ps: sorry about double post, wouldnt let me edit:

[Danner]

PI adds 20% to spell haste. The tooltip says -20% casting time, but that's not correct. It adds to spell haste directly, and has done so since TBC. The tooltip is just from before they invented haste as a mechanic.

The formula for cast times are derived from spell haste. And the relation is as follows:

Haste = ( ( BaseCastTime / DesiredCastTime ) - 1) * 100

Assuming you have no other source of haste present, A Flash Heal of normally 1.5 seconds cast time would be castable in...

20 = ( ( 1.5 / X ) - 1) * 100
0.2 = ( 1.5 / X ) - 1
1.2 = 1.5 / X
1.2 * X = 1.5
X = 1.5 / 1.2
X = 1.25

... 1.25 seconds with PI up.

Insidentially; 1.5 seconds casttime reduced by 20% is 1.2 seconds. This is NOT the cast speed you get. But the difference is small enough for it to not really matter.

Edit: And proof, I forgot about the proof

Look at the datamined values from
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=10060/power-infusion

Effect #1 Apply Aura: Haste - Spells (126)
Value: 20
Effect #2 Apply Aura: Mod Power Cost % (126)
Value: -20

It adds a haste value of 20 to all the abilities in group 126.
We don't know exactly which abilities reside in group 126, but for the sake of argument, that's all spells you can cast.
It also decrease the mana cost percentage by a value of 20 to the same spells.

[Calendra12345]

tested it, PI effectively decreases the longetivity from 11 seconds to 8.8 seconds on my vampiric touch.

[harky]

False, shielding is the way to heal, prayer of mending at its time is fine aswell. Shields = your top healing spell. You can't just say "Prayer of Healing does 30k and shield does 13k, so Prayer of healing is more effective lol" its about you never doing any overhealing with your shields, therefore if played right, you can blanket all damage coming out. The main reason why you bring disc priest is shields.

You're assuming that the Prayer of Healing will overheal for a large amount. If used properly at the right times it will not and it will greatly exceed the shielded amount of PW:S. The same is true of Binding Heal. Shields are the main reason you bring Discipline, yes, but they are not the strongest spell in Discipline's arsenal. That title belongs to PoM and PoH. PW:S is simply the easiest to use.

Shadowpriests scale the best with PI, as 2/3 dots benefit from haste.

Shadow Priests do not scale better than Warlocks, or Mages with haste. They do scale very well with haste, but they don't compare with the others. Affliction Warlocks in particular scale much better with haste than Shadow does. Yes, Shadow has DP and VT scaling with haste, but the combined DPS of DP and VT is similar to the DPS gain of Corruption by itself. That isn't the whole story though because you also must contend with Shadow Bolt and Drain Soul, both of which out scale Mind Flay. I know it's nice to show your fellow Priests some love, but your contention is based on false information.

[Auraye]

Discipline's place is essentially to be added to raids that already have sufficient healing and then put the other healers on cruise control by adding a damage buffer.

Oh, so I'm just in our 25 mans so the other healers can have time to kick back, relax, and buff their nails while we're doing hard modes? Sweet! I'm going to reroll now, because I could use a break.

In most setups involving Discipline Priests they can be removed without having a large impact on the fight, only converting over-healing into effective healing, but when another of the healers is removed the raid suffers.

Removing a disc priest makes a large impact on inflating YOUR eHPS. In a 25 man, replacing pretty much any kind of healer doesn't make a a lot of difference. However, discipline trivializes some fight mechanics such as infest, so saying that it doesn't have a large impact on a fight - many people will strongly disagree with you. If Disc priests weren't that huge of an asset, I wonder why serious raiding guilds bother giving us core spots? Maybe GMs feel sorry for us because we're such outcasts.

This is because, contrary to what most people want to believe, shields are inferior to heals in function.

So in function, you mean keeping the raid alive, right? I say this because fundamentally, that is the job of a healer. Soooo you're insinuating that mitigating damage is inferior to fixing damage already taken? So what about when I preshield someone that would otherwise get one-shot, that's an inferior role/function to you other healers that could otherwise look at another body on the floor that you couldn't save because they're one shotted?

That is because they have buff durations and static sizes a target who has taken damage and shielded must also be healed.

Who is "they"?

I'll take a guess in that you're calling the shields unnecessary because someone that's shielded from taking additional damage still has to be healed anyway? So what do you do when someone gets knocked to 25% health on heroic Putricide from stacking on the first ooze eruption ( it inflicts ~170k shared among nearby targets), and then the second one will kill them? Can you heal 15+ people back to full within the couple of seconds before the next eruption? You can't, especially when you were knocked back by the explosion as well. However, if those people were pre-shielded, they'd be able to handle 2 explosions before having to be topped off.

So while Discipline can be removed and only cause more 'pressure', if a healer is dropped in favor of a Discipline Priest it's quite possible that the healing may become too intense to manage.

How could the healing become too intense to manage if you take a disc priest over another healer when with a disc priest, there is less damage to heal? That's illogical. I had another healer complaining of being bored last weekend in a 10 man, because he had little healing to do. I can't count how many times I've heard similar complaints. Discipline can trivialize mechanics such as LK infest. What you're missing is that you, nor any other healer can stabilize someone at 5% health taking ticking aoe damage with an instant cast 12k negative heal, or stop someone from even getting infest in the first place.

Discipline stops incoming damage and saves lives. I'm sorry, but I am getting the impression that you feel like your raid spot is in danger. If you're going to diss another spec to make yourself look better ;D, at least base your argument on factual game mechanics instead of making blanket statements with no examples or numbers. Sure, there are a few fights where holy outshines disc, but more often than not, we wipe the floor with you. :P

BRB going to do some theorycrafting on how instant damage mitigation is inferior to reactive heals when it comes to keeping a raid alive. On second thought, I think it's going to take me a looooooong time to justify that one. :P

[Radalek]

Lich King Heroic...basically not doable without Disc Priest. I killed it on 10 man with Disc Priest/Holy Pala combo and if you try something else you need to go with 3 healers and then you will lack dps. And yeah, 25 man LK HC is just tailor made for Discipline.

[Auraye]

You're assuming that the Prayer of Healing will overheal for a large amount. If used properly at the right times it will not and it will greatly exceed the shielded amount of PW:S. The same is true of Binding Heal.

Even if your PoH goes completely toward eHPS, guess what...you know that thing called cast time, right? We can cast 2 or 3 shields in the time you cast a PoH, and for whatever *extra* of the shield that isn't used up, instead of going to overheal, it's on reserve for future use for up to 30 seconds. ANDDDDD it stopped the damage from occuring in the first place. Hmmm instant negative heal versus a heal that takes 2 to 3 sec to reactively heal...what to do, what to do, what to do...

Shields are the main reason you bring Discipline, yes, but they are not the strongest spell in Discipline's arsenal. That title belongs to PoM and PoH. PW:S is simply the easiest to use.

OK, you're either a troll, or have very little understanding of priesting.

[Bigslick]

OK, you're either a troll, or have very little understanding of priesting.

*grabs popcorn*

[Auraye]

Don't bogart the popcorn, dude.

[Melonberry]

Why would anyone replace a disc priest with a holy priest? If anything replace them with a dps, holy is really only good for one "niche"

Nearly unhealable aoe damage. Example, 2 healing Hodir 25. Anything not that insane (requiring glyphed poh), you're better off with a tree or a disc priest.

[Kelesti]

Why would anyone replace a holy priest with a disc priest? If anything replace them with a dps, disc is really only good for one "niche"

Nearly unhealable aoe damage. Example, 4 healing Algalon 25 or Anub'arak ToGC25. Anything not that insane (requiring an extra health buffer preventing imminent death), you're just as well off with a tree or a holy priest.

I fixed that for you.

[Kelesti]

However, discipline trivializes some fight mechanics such as infest, so saying that it doesn't have a large impact on a fight - many people will strongly disagree with you.

By “Discipline” you mean “Power Word: Shield”. The only mechanic, apart from Infest (which is still trivial in normal, by the way), that Discipline touched well was Leeching Swarm; that was simply because it didn’t actually heal. Spamming a glyphed Holy Nova was nice, despite the glyph nerf, just because it also didn’t heal for much. The other mechanics it ignores? Go ahead, name the mechanics that Discipline trivializes. Especially the ones that a HoT doesn’t.

Here let me do it for you: You get lucky with Festergut’s exhale, but the spamming shields throughout the gas itself doesn’t do shit all for people with Weakened Soul that get hit by Malleable Goo, or the disorient. There’s excellent use for Power Word: Shield on Sindragosa, specifically on hard mode when you’re paired up and spread the frak out for Unstable Magic. But guess what the average Discipline Priest does on this or any aura encounter? Spam shields on everyone and anyone. Why? “Because they take damage and it’s not overheal lol”. That’s not what Discipline is good for, but that's great for looking badass on a meter, and so many of you useless pathetic tools think that this is the Prime way to play Discipline. It's not.

If Disc priests weren't that huge of an asset, I wonder why serious raiding guilds bother giving us core spots? Maybe GMs feel sorry for us because we're such outcasts.

I’m going to stop you right there. "The best guilds do it" has nothing to do with the best players, and everything to do with the best coordination from the top 20% of players. There are people in absolute shit guilds that can outplay someone from <Top Guild> and is way more knowledgable at <Random Class>. But, <Top Guild> has the group going for them, and the time to put six or more nights a week into it. They also have the gear and achievements, only picking people who already have the same.

Top guilds also ignored Holy Priests throughout the entirety of TBC, but that didn't mean Holy was a terrible healer that should be replaced at all times by a Shaman, Druid, or Paladin. Far from it. Go ahead, though. This is entertaining.

So in function, you mean keeping the raid alive, right? I say this because fundamentally, that is the job of a healer. Soooo you're insinuating that mitigating damage is inferior to fixing damage already taken?

I believe what harky was implying, and has been implying all along, is that shielding is not directly superior to direct-actual-healing, both in an HPS environment and actual application.

So what about when I preshield someone that would otherwise get one-shot, that's an inferior role/function to you other healers that could otherwise look at another body on the floor that you couldn't save because they're one shotted?

Tell me again, what mechanics you, with your 10.5k Power Word: Shield, what mechanics do you actually “save” someone with, in a one-shot environment?

I'll take a guess in that you're calling the shields unnecessary because someone that's shielded from taking additional damage still has to be healed anyway? So what do you do when someone gets knocked to 25% health on heroic Putricide from stacking on the first ooze eruption ( it inflicts ~170k shared among nearby targets), and then the second one will kill them? Can you heal 15+ people back to full within the couple of seconds before the next eruption? You can't, especially when you were knocked back by the explosion as well. However, if those people were pre-shielded, they'd be able to handle 2 explosions before having to be topped off.

Actually, as a Holy Priest, this is one of the skills you NEED to be able to do. Time a Prayer for the first explosion, land one immediately after the explosion when you hit the ground (go go 70 yard diameter!), followed by a circle on whoever you can as the mad dash to regroup continues. 16 targets, not counting Mending, or already existing HoT ticks (renew, another Prayer). Your pre-shielding means nothing, when you take into the aura ticks eating away the first couple before you can finish shielding prior to the explosion, let alone being useless after the first.

How could the healing become too intense to manage if you take a disc priest over another healer when with a disc priest, there is less damage to heal? That's illogical. I had another healer complaining of being bored last weekend in a 10 man, because he had little healing to do. I can't count how many times I've heard similar complaints.

That’s logic of “We have too many healers as it is”. Discipline shines best under these circumstances, because Power Word: Shield spam overshadows other healing, simply because of the way it works.

Discipline can trivialize mechanics such as LK infest. What you're missing is that you, nor any other healer can stabilize someone at 5% health taking ticking aoe damage with an instant cast 12k negative heal, or stop someone from even getting infest in the first place.

Please, continue to quote infest as a meaningful mechanic. Please.

Discipline stops incoming damage and saves lives. I'm sorry, but I am getting the impression that you feel like your raid spot is in danger. If you're going to diss another spec to make yourself look better ;D, at least base your argument on factual game mechanics instead of making blanket statements with no examples or numbers. Sure, there are a few fights where holy outshines disc, but more often than not, we wipe the floor with you. :P

Discipline is capable, on a single target at a time, from stopping incoming damage. People having health, from any source, is what saves lives. All healers do that. The only “factual game mechanic” you brought to the table was “lol Infest is pitiful with shield”. Well guess what. It’s pitiful without the shield, if someone learns how to time a Prayer right. But I guess you can’t. You’re terrible at it, so by default, spending 5 seconds to do what it takes me 2? Sure, shielding trivializes an already trivial mechanic.

Bring real stuff to the table, or get the hell out.

Edit:

Even if your PoH goes completely toward eHPS, guess what...you know that thing called cast time, right? We can cast 2 or 3 shields in the time you cast a PoH, and for whatever *extra* of the shield that isn't used up, instead of going to overheal, it's on reserve for future use for up to 30 seconds. ANDDDDD it stopped the damage from occuring in the first place. Hmmm instant negative heal versus a heal that takes 2 to 3 sec to reactively heal...what to do, what to do, what to do...

The point is, one Prayer outweighs 3 shields. You spend less time doing it, and let your shield cover where it’s supposed to. Mending and Prayer are stronger than shields, especially when Shield can’t be reapplied due to spamming.

OK, you're either a troll, or have very little understanding of priesting.

I’d have to say this would apply to you, here.

[harky]

Auraye, there are three things you seem to be missing in this debate.

1. Prayer of Healing is more powerful than PW:S.

You will never get 3 PW:S casts per 1 PoH cast. You will usually only get 2, while you may be getting more. Also, this is not Holy's PoH, which is well over three times stronger than Discipline's PW:S, but rather it's Discipline's PoH. Assume a normal minimum amount of haste for ICC at 655 haste. This puts Discipline's PoH at 2.18 seconds. That's 2.18:1 for PW:S. However, with BT this drops to 1.74, which is again 1.74:1. Now using 12k per cast of PW:S, which will only occur when using the ICC buff, this means you'd need to get 20.9-26.2k for a PoH. Now what you'll find is that PoH gets 263% of your SP, which will then be glyphed for an additional 20% healing. With the ICC buff and ~4k SP, which is required for your 12k PW:S figure, your PoH would hit for up to 29.8k non-crit. Assuming a low 35% crit this is an average of 35k per cast. So without BT this means you would need <25% over-healing and with BT you would need <40% over-healing.

If you are looking for opportunities to land a BT PoH in many fights you will be able to find the opportunity without serious issues. It will not be your top heal, but it will be a large gain in healing for that execution time. So again, while PW:S is easier to use, PoH is stronger. This does not mean PoH is better, but denying that it is the stronger spell is ignorant. PoH offers higher HPS when certain over-healing percentages are met.

2. Heals are superior to shields in most situations.

This is because unless the shield actively prevents an attack that would have been fatal the order of receiving aid and taking damage is inconsequential and regardless of the conflict resolution the target will require healing after being shielded. Additionally, because PW:S has an associated debuff which limits it's usage on targets it means that shields can not be used to adequately protect a target from consistent damage. The best examples come through AOE Aura fights in ICC in which shields are destroyed invariably within 6 seconds. This means a Discipline Priest must always be shifting focus from player to player and can't be expected to assist any single player.

In regard to shielding versus healing itself the argument is not as complex as you believe. If a blow is not fatal then healing is superior because it uses the players health pool as its own 'absorb' mechanic, while simultaneously increasing the distance from death. Shields only perform one of these tasks, which then requires additional healing if incoming damage ever exceeds the absorb total within the debuff duration. When this occurs additional absorbs can not be stacked on the player until they have already received additional damage. This is complicated further by any unpredictability in the incoming damage which can cause shields to be wasted.

So to reiterate: Shields are superior if and only if they will prevent a fatal hit. If they do not prevent a fatal attack then heals are superior as they fulfill the same role without requiring additional support on the target.

3. Discipline has the lowest potential HPS of all healers.

This, combined with the previous point, is why Discipline is the most easily replaced healer in a setup. Discipline is kept alive entirely by over-healing holding the other healers back. Removal of a Discipline Priest will increase incoming DPS, but you're also removing the healer with this lower potential and a healer which requires support and can only play optimally with specific fight models. In terms of potential HPS this is a mathematical issue. The filler spells used by the other healers are Renew, Rejuv, Holy Light and Chain Heal. All of those abilities exceed the HPS produced PW:S. This is further complicated by the other raid healers having easy to use non-filler spells that greatly exceed their filler.

Again, the benefit of Discipline shines when you have sufficient healers for an encounter, but want to play it safe. In this manner since you already have the proper healers to manage incoming damage and then you add in a single Discipline Priest which is taken to smooth out the fight. This is where the comments of Discipline being meant to support the other healers. If you do not have this type of healing setup then you are not using Discipline to support healers, but instead in a standard healing role supporting the raid itself. The normal use is meant to prevent a problem with a healer having a lapse in conscience and give more room for error, while using Discipline as another healer typically exposes them to their rather large throughput problems. Discipline benefits from it's ability to ignore over-healing, but when damage is high enough, or healer count is reduced low enough, Discipline should be the first to be replaced, or dropped. This is because even a Paladin on raid healing actually has higher HPS potential than a Discipline Priest. This might be hard to swallow, but doing a simple check on the healing potential of different class abilities makes it obvious.


Oh and as far as me worrying over losing my raid spot? Why would I? I'm the only Priest with a PVE Discipline spec in my guild. Though I only use it for two fights now (Putricide 25H and LK 25H) because the other healers find it too difficult to heal when I'm Discipline instead of Holy due to our preference for using low healer counts. It's simply not worth it to use Discipline when 4 healing, their throughput is much too low.

[Auraye]

By “Discipline” you mean “Power Word: Shield”. The only mechanic, apart from Infest (which is still trivial in normal, by the way), that Discipline touched well was Leeching Swarm; that was simply because it didn’t actually heal.

No, you’re wrong, I didn't mean Power Word: Shield – I meant Discipline. We have more abilities than that. How do you figure that it's the only thing that discipline “touches well” when we can mitigate most of the damage in the game? I’ll give you two from each of the last three raids to help you remember:

Putricide’s ooze eruptions
Shielding the abom to give him more energy
Pain Suppressing someone that didn’t get 3 stacks of spores on Festergut
TOC Faction Champs instant mass dispels
Gormok’s staggering stomp on melee
XT’s tantrum
Kologarn’s shockwave

Like I said, Disc can mitigate most damage in the game with just PW:S. This can be applied to nearly every fight in game.

The other mechanics it ignores? Go ahead, name the mechanics that Discipline trivializes. Especially the ones that a HoT doesn’t.

Nothing is ignored. It's mitigated. HoTs aren't even needed if the damage is absorbed. I didn't realize this is a Holy vs. Disc debate.

If you want to go there, stopping damage from occurring in the first place is more powerful than healing after the fact. Do you know why? It’s because there’s a chance that there may be unexpected additional damage that will gib the player. Something can happen to the healer's cast that was supposed to land at *just the right time*, like they had to run from ghosts, malleable goo, empowered vortex, whatever...Why take damage when you can avoid it? It seems pretty logical to me. Do you avoid stubbing your toe, or do you just go ahead and stub it then put ice on it?

You get lucky with Festergut’s exhale, but the spamming shields throughout the gas itself doesn’t do shit all for people with Weakened Soul that get hit by Malleable Goo, or the disorient.

Get lucky with Festergut’s exhale? It’s a mechanic on every Festergut fight. Nobody can do anything about the Malleable Goo or Disorient, so why are you even bringing it up, like it’s the Disc Priest’s fault? So what if they already have Weakened Soul on them? They can still be healed, just not reshielded.

There’s excellent use for Power Word: Shield on Sindragosa, specifically on hard mode when you’re paired up and spread the frak out for Unstable Magic. But guess what the average Discipline Priest does on this encounter? Spam shields on everyone and anyone. Why? “Because they take damage and it’s not overheal lol”. That’s what the point is.

Then tell your disc priest to stop being bad and pay attention to the icons on their healing frames. That’s not my problem.

I’m going to stop you right there. "The best guilds do it" has nothing to do with the best players, and everything to do with the best coordination from the top 20% of players. There are people in absolute shit guilds that can outplay someone from <Top Guild> and is way more knowledgable at <Random Class>. But, <Top Guild> has the group going for them, and the time to put six or more nights a week into it. They also have the gear and achievements, only picking people who already have the same.

The best guilds attract the best players and theorycrafters. Even the crappy raiding guilds are stocking up on disc priests. Better now?

Top guilds also ignored Holy Priests throughout the entirety of TBC, but that didn't mean Holy was a terrible healer that should be replaced at all times by a Shaman, Druid, or Paladin. Far from it. Go ahead, though. This is entertaining.

Wow, I struck a nerve because this went from a discussion of gear to holy vs. disc. I’m sorry that holy is a spec that is ignored, or taken for granted. It’s not my fault that people are diggin’ the sexy shields.

I believe what harky was implying, and has been implying all along, is that shielding is not directly superior to direct-actual-healing, both in an HPS environment and actual application.

Yes, shielding is superior, because it stops incoming damage before it even could damage someone.

[Insert more off topic angry holy vs. disc ranting from K]

That’s logic of “We have too many healers as it is”. Discipline shines best under these circumstances, because Power Word: Shield spam overshadows other healing, simply because of the way it works.

So guilds are recruiting Disc priests because they want to run with too many healers, instead of taking an extra DPS?
PW:S doesn’t overshadow other healing. It stops damage. That means that you have less to heal.

[more angry…]Well guess what. It’s pitiful without the shield, if someone learns how to time a Prayer right. But I guess you can’t. You’re terrible at it, so by default, spending 5 seconds to do what it takes me 2? Sure, shielding trivializes an already trivial mechanic.

I can’t? I’m a disc purist, not a fail holy like you’re insinuating, so I wouldn't be timing a PoH for infest.

Bring real stuff to the table, or get the hell out.

If you want “the real stuff”, I don’t mind going over the specifics and my calculations with you, but not on this forum. This animosity isn’t cool, and I don’t think that giving you my calculations and going over a list of how I don’t agree is going to help you chill out, so I’m more than happy to take it to private PMs with you. I’m sorry that you got so angry that you turned rabid, but you just took a thread that was about something else and made it all about your anger as a holy priest. And you’re a moderator…

...and I need to leave work.

[harky]

I'm going to have to do some research and figure out exactly when this whole phenomenon of chopping other peoples posts into tiny little pieces and replying to them in segments became popular. I can understand one split, maybe even two, but 10? That's bloody hard to read. Learn to compose a paragraph people. :

Auraye, it seems you really like Discipline and that's great, but you should be able to understand the flaws in the spec without becoming defensive. Discipline is not 'special' in any way within the game. There is a single encounter that heavily favors Discipline in the game right now and that is due to a single gimmick. You need to grasp the concept that shields are only superior to heals when they prevent fatal damage and that event resolution of damage, healing and absorb mechanics is of little consequence if a players life is not in danger.

If you do not understand that then your arguments grow increasingly less coherent as debate continues. A good example of it is this claim: Nothing is ignored. It's mitigated. HoTs aren't even needed if the damage is absorbed. Here you've completely missed the point of the comment you're replying too because you have it stuck in your head that absorbs are so good. What you've missed is that what is being discussed is Infest. Infest favors absorbs not because of damage mitigated. The initial hit of Infest is minor and no threat. The issue at hand is actually the debuff, which proper absorb uses allow to be ignored. That is why PW:S is so good at handling Infest. If the debuff was not an issue then Discipline would be at a severe disadvantage on Lich King because the other healers are better able to heal multiple players at once for higher consistent healing.

So again, until you understand the way event resolution works out in relation to player survival there's no point debating anything further. If you are at 30k health and take a 10k hit it does not matter if you are shielded before the hit, or healed after the hit. Your life was never in danger. There is no advantage in preventing non-fatal damage. The advantage comes only when preventing fatal damage. When you consider the ICC healing style is more about keeping the raid stable than about reacting to emergencies you'll see where Discipline has started to fall short as ICC pushes forward. Discipline shines when damage bursts in relation to healthpool size where very high. That hasn't been the case for over a year and it's time people started to realize it.

[Samurai]

So again, until you understand the way event resolution works out in relation to player survival there's no point debating anything further. If you are at 30k health and take a 10k hit it does not matter if you are shielded before the hit, or healed after the hit. Your life was never in danger. There is no advantage in preventing non-fatal damage. The advantage comes only when preventing fatal damage. When you consider the ICC healing style is more about keeping the raid stable than about reacting to emergencies you'll see where Discipline has started to fall short as ICC pushes forward. Discipline shines when damage bursts in relation to healthpool size where very high. That hasn't been the case for over a year and it's time people started to realize it.

You also don't seem to grasp event resolution yourself.
Over your last few posts you keep blabbing on about PoH having better HPS then shield spam. Well sure it probably would, but that misses the entire point of shielding in the first place. Normally IC Aura AoE's have a timer, and if you know the encounters and follow your boss timers you can cast 5 shields in the 5-6 seconds before it goes off and it prevents the damage to that party, or you can just spam PoH after the Aura has hit people.

At the end of day, whether you PoH them, or preshield them, a few seconds after the damage they will be full HP again regardless of how you decided to go about getting them back to full.


There is also more to Disc, and Holy for that matter, then either shield spamming or Renew spamming. However both of these options currently is the best HPS output for both specs when reading WoL logs (or similar). If a priest is doing just that, they might as well reroll a druid and do the same and get much higher output. Priests have probably the highest arsenal of helpful spells of all classes imo, so if you are using only 1 or 2 for a fight just to max the meters then you are playing a priest for the wrongs reasons imo.

[Mr_Bojangles]

Reflected damage: maybe not as insignificant as you think

Oh dear

Reflective shield only reflects damage done to the priest, if you're speccing into it at all you are doing it wrong.