Random dungeons and votekick system

[Untoldblasphemy]

Something very disturbing happened to me for the second time today. I am currently leveling a warlock and im not really sure how it goes down at high levels, but at this point (40), I need to life tap constantly. This morning in a random dungeon a healer complained about me using Hellfire, something I can understand, although he never asked for a mana break, so it should have been OK. Later on the healers changed and there was a misunderstanding that I was still using Hellfire, when the damage I took was either from Life Tap from Rain of Fire, or aggro AND mana tap when dealing damage with shadowbolts on a single target during AoE. So a discussion arose about what I was doing wrong. DEspite that, we finished the instance. The second time i signed for RDF today, I got paired in uldaman again. Up until the last boss, we never had a mana break. NEVER. And right before the descent, the healer started complaining. Here's a log(chat) of what happened:


[22:25:44][P] [Sorrowful]: so?
[22:25:47][P] [Sorrowful]: if it wasnt for my damage
[22:25:47][Dungeon Guide] [Senopyl-Frostwhisper]: Recount - Damage Done for Overall Data
[22:25:48][Dungeon Guide] [Senopyl-Frostwhisper]: 1. Sandynella-Lightning's Blade 156711 (145.9, 34%)
[22:25:48][Dungeon Guide] [Senopyl-Frostwhisper]: 2. >Sorrowful<-Neptulon 148912 (218.3, 32.3%)
[22:25:48][Dungeon Guide] [Senopyl-Frostwhisper]: 3. Josdenos-Sylvanas 86798 (90.7, 18.8%)
[22:25:48][Dungeon Guide] [Senopyl-Frostwhisper]: 4. Laurelai-Sylvanas 61088 (75.1, 13.2%)
[22:25:48][Dungeon Guide] [Senopyl-Frostwhisper]: 5. Senopyl 7013 (11.6, 1.5%)
[22:25:51][P] [Sorrowful]: you'd still be
[22:25:54][P] [Sorrowful]: on first boss
[22:26:00][P] [Josdenos-Sylvanas]: yes yes, you guys can do dps with your fancy heirlooms and enchants
[22:26:04][P] [Sandynella-Lightning's Blade]: so lock it is a team play
[22:26:06][P] [Josdenos-Sylvanas]: go whine somewhere else
[22:26:29][P] [Sorrowful]: i dont have enchants and im not the one whining
[22:26:40][Dungeon Guide] [Senopyl-Frostwhisper]: bow please
[22:26:43][P] [Sorrowful]: yes, and not healing comes where in team ?
[22:27:06]Stonevault Flameweaver attempts to run away in fear!
[22:27:13][P] [Sorrowful]: do you realise
[22:27:15][P] [Sorrowful]: that we havent made
[22:27:19][P] [Sandynella-Lightning's Blade]: team play means all should do the best for team
[22:27:21][P] [Sorrowful]: a SINGLE mana break ?
[22:27:26][P] [Sandynella-Lightning's Blade]: and u burn healers mana so!
[22:27:34][Dungeon Guide] [Senopyl-Frostwhisper]: just shut up
[22:27:56][P] [Sorrowful]: no please, answer me
[22:27:58][P] [Sorrowful]: do you realise this
[22:28:02][P] [Sorrowful]: we havent made a single mana break
[22:28:05]Stonevault Flameweaver attempts to run away in fear!
[22:28:07][P] [Josdenos-Sylvanas]: stop talking more playing
[22:28:21][P] [Sandynella-Lightning's Blade]: will stop when healer ask
[22:28:28][Dungeon Guide] [Senopyl-Frostwhisper]: tank dot u have soul stone
[22:28:28][P] [Sorrowful]: so
[22:28:29][P] [Sandynella-Lightning's Blade]: dps stfu and dps
[22:28:42][P] [Sorrowful]: if the healer didnt ask this means that he is ok with the healing
[22:28:54][Dungeon Guide] [Senopyl-Frostwhisper]: bow me
[22:29:37]You have been removed from the group.

(I'm second here, because I missed a few groups because I was training skills, on my recount I was first)

How was this fair? Considering how many times I ran out of mana, it would have taken all the food in the world to keep me going. Not to mention how much slower the run would have went. Am I terribad or do I just expect too much out of randoms ? And the problem is not just in warlock damage per mana ratio on lower levels. Every time I try to apply logic to any argument that arises instead of mindlessly bashing some poor blue geared tank, that can't do more threat than leeroyesque t10 dps, I recieve threats like "I HONESTLY WONDER WHO TO VOTEKICK RIGHT NOW BLUE GUY FOR NOT BEING IN BIS EPOX BECAUSE THIS IS VERY HARD OR THE GUY DEFENDING HIM BECAUSE HE BRINGS LOGICZ TO MY INTERTUBES".
The reason I am putting this in general is to, hopefully, start a discussion about reasoning behind votekicks. Most of the time they are abused, and truth being told, they shouldnt be there. It would only make sense to kick a tank or a healer that aren't doing their job, because even if you kick a lame dps theres no guarantee that a worse one won't come and generally it only slows you down.
Please, restore my faith in humanity(or atleast in me), because honestly, im contemplating suicide and/or homicide right now.

[iceberg265]

Please, restore my faith in humanity(or atleast in me), because honestly, im contemplating suicide and/or homicide right now

I was on your side till you went there. Go ahead and do it if a game matters that much to you.

Assuming you choose not to kill yourself, I don't get what the problem is either. Lifetap is part of the warlock class. If the healer has the mana for it, and its not exactly stressful to heal, it shouldn't be an issue.

[sprrw]

votekick is great because, at least on my server/faction/lvl80, the dungeon finder introduced a lot of dumbasses who dpsed with righteous fury on and refused to respond to party chat, or rogues who would sprint forward and pull groups back to the party while the healer was requesting time to drink, or people who afk for nearly the whole thing (okay, so that's not a big issue--we can continue with four, but it's nice to kick and give the new person an easy one-boss frost emblem).

just looks like you get bad luck with noobs in your groups. sorry to hear that.

[Yunru]

Lifetap+bandage after every combat and you shouldnt have a whining healer (you make 10000 of them while lvling 1st aid anyway).

[Untoldblasphemy]

I was on your side till you went there. Go ahead and do it if a game matters that much to you.

Assuming you choose not to kill yourself, I don't get what the problem is either. Lifetap is part of the warlock class. If the healer has the mana for it, and its not exactly stressful to heal, it shouldn't be an issue.

You know, a parallel could be drawn with real life also, but I don't wan't to go there really. I may have dramatized it a bit, but the fact remains. Both times on my warlock and just about every time someone is getting bashed without any plausible justification, I try to explain everything logically - warlocks need lifetap, blue tanks can't keep aggro if you hit mobs with cooldowns even before they targeted said mobs, etc. It just doesen't work on most of the people out there. And Blizzard seems to enable them. You know, I almost NEVER see 0/0/71 dks kicked because they are borderline useless, but most of the time otherwise useful players get kicked because they had a RL issue pop, or like I just got kicked - because the healer was lazy...

[darkbshadow]

They didn't kick you because of your damage or life tapping. They kicked you because you wouldn't drop it. I've been in groups where there has been a dispute, but if one side stops talking it's fine and nothing happens. However if you continue on about it someones going to leave or get kicked. No one cares about the drama, and it's not like your going to group with them again so no reason to defend yourself.

I'm a mage so i know no mana breaks are annoying, however it's trash so right as you get out of combat you need to sit down and drink. So what if you don't dps for a few seconds into the pull, you'll have your mana back and you finish the instance faster. And if you want to use life tap follow it up by a life drain if it annoys your healer that much.

[Elysia]

Yeah, hate to say it, but you were in the wrong with your attitude. And you may have dramatized a bit? : The healer himself asked you all to drop it, so best bets were you should have. And I see your one of those many warlocks I've run into leveling who uses Hellfire... like, honestly.. why? Do you enjoy pissing your healers off?

[Sesshomaru]

Whiners who gets their punishment is just perfect.
OT: You made a seriously mistake. You flamed the group, making the progress getting further delayed. Well, life tapping now and then is just fine, BUT you should watch the healer/tanks pace. If your healer/tank don't have any problem with you life tapping now and then, then it's fine, but if they don't like it, don't do it. Bragging about the dps (or damage done) is just bad playing, and makes you almost worthless in their eyes. If you continue with this behavior, I can almost bet that you get kicked out of every instances you join.

[Taurei]

hellfire is failspell anyway, don't use it. Though the healer should stfu and l2p if he can't heal your lifetaps.

[Mix]

Leveling a warlock with RDF.

Rule #1: NEVER expect a heal.

Rule #2: Manage your mana. NEVER life tap to 5% health. Life tap during combat but never twice in a row, keep your mana at at least 50%. Near the end of a fight you may burn your pool to zero.

Rule #3: Life tapping while moving to next pull. Do not expect a heal. Either bandage, eat, healthstone etc if you do not receive a small heal before you enter combat again.

Rule #4: Not all trash needs to be AoE'd. Don't use Hellfire, it pisses people off. Use SoC or RoF. Watch your aggro, leveling tanks do not have all of their nice aoe tanking abilities. IT is ALWAYS the dps's fault if you get aggro and take damage and DIE. (no word of a lie, I can't think of a single death my main (warlock) when I grabbed aggro where it was not my fault for grabbing said aggro)

Tips:

Many newly leveling healers do not know how warlocks work. Also, healers that DO have a warlock alt and are leveling a healer are not going to tolerate you life tapping to near death.

Spec affliction. You heal yourself as you dps, life tap just before Haunt recast once you get it. Keep corruption up for self heal.

Death coil - this is an instant heal, use wisely/carefully and not when the trash may be feared into more trash. Bosses are immune.

Most people are very impatient with dungeons right now. If a healer burns mana on you, then he/she may have to stop to drink. Tank may not wait so some new healers do not waste mana on dps between pulls.

During combat a good/decent healer will throw heals on dps provided that the tank isn't taking every global cooldown to keep alive (happens sometimes)

[apostate]

At OP:
1. As long as you are paying attention to the healers mana - liftetap to your heart's content
2. As long as you are paying attention to the healers mana - liftetap to your heart's content
3. As long as you are paying attention to the healers mana - liftetap to your heart's content
4. As long as you are paying attention to the healers mana - liftetap to your heart's content

To people who stupidly queue as healer even though they aren't specced for it, don't have the mana to finish a single pull, and who complain about other people playing as they should:

1. Stop queuing as a healer so you can get a faster queue even though you suck at healing and have no mana pool
2. Stop queuing as a healer so you can get a faster queue even though you suck at healing and have no mana pool
3. Stop queuing as a healer so you can get a faster queue even though you suck at healing and have no mana pool
4. Stop queuing as a healer so you can get a faster queue even though you suck at healing and have no mana pool

That's all there is to it. I never ran out of mana on my priest or druid when i healed pre-80 at any range regardless of whether I had a lifetapping warlock or not. Matter of fact, 9 times out of 10, I'd be so bored and sitting at 95% mana the whole instance I would tell the lock to lifetap whenever they weren't at 100% mana just to have something to do.

@OP: You just had a shitty healer or a shitty group that didn't know how to play.

[Untoldblasphemy]

Dramatizing was about the homicide part. On to the matter - there were NO mana breaks whatsoever. The healer never stopped to drink even once, nevermind if I used hellfire or not (Just for the record, its waaay more damage than any other aoe, 120 per mob even at rank 1. It's more damage and easier for me. Secondly, I refrained from using it the second run) the fact remains, healer had zero problems with his mana. Whereas, I had to life tap after almost every pull.

@darkbshadow, honestly, mages have it way better. If you are arcane, especially at max level, you can just spam explosions, because you would get clearcasting almost every time, plus evocation on 2 minutes CD. Furthermore, the warlock class is BALANCED around lifetap, this is what I tried to explain both times - wether it would be life tap or hellfire, I would still have to drain my HP to deal damage.

Please, it's not a matter of class mechanics. The problem here is that even if logic is applied, people refuse to hear it. How is asking for advice wrong attitude, would you care to explain ? Because if a problem is presented, a solution to it should follow. "fix it" doesen't work. Especially when they were OBVIOUSLY wrong. I don't see how I have any fault for the healer being lazy and wanting to go with minimal button presses. If this is so, then I can also slack with the damage, but I would know the difference even if others don't.

And for the love of my sanity, please read - the healer didn't have issues with his mana. I'm not some newbie, thank you very much. I've been playing since end of vanilla, I know my abc's in a group, especially about group pace, but im not here to brag. My problem here is that every time I try to reason with people in RFD, heroics or leveling dungeons, some bizarre stuff happen. Like NANANAN I CANT HEAR YOU YOU GONNA GET RAEP(kicked). Is this normal or I'm out of luck and how do you deal with it. Not when to life tap and breathe...

[Lolzzor]

Tell the healer not to heal you if your over 50% and l2 use drain life it should work

[Promark]

The problem here is that even if logic is applied, people refuse to hear it.

The problem here is that you refuse to listen. Your argument might be sound to you, and maybe to a few others. Regardless if you are 'right' or not, the others in the group don't want to hear you bitching about it. If you would simply say something like "the healer and I will work it out" and then you /w them, then things would most likely have been smoother. You could bring mana pots if it is a problem, bandages, stop to eat, etc. Putting all the blame on others is why you are kicked.

Also, please don't comment on max level mage mechanics when the discussion is about level 40 5 mans and life tapping.