Original Buffers and Debuffers ends up being the worst.

[Shawaam]

I wonder if anyone else besides me have noticed this trend, that when blizzard tries to remove the "Bring the player, not the class", that they end up giving the other class a metter mechanic to apply the buff or debuff compared to the original.

Let me give you some examples:

Curse of Elemenents, the original Spelldamage debuff:
Moonkin druids and Unholy Death Knights applies it through their normal rotations, no DPS lost, only DPS gained.
Warlocks have to use a Curse which deals no damage. If there isn't anyone else to apply the spelldamage debuff, warlocks will lose DPS compared to if they weren't needed to apply the debuff.

Scorch and Winter's Chill, the original spellcrit debuffs:
Two of three Warlock speccs applies it through their normal rotation. Firemage's loses DPS using scorch compared to if they didn't need to. And even if Winter's Chill applies through a normal mage-rotation, it is a stackable debuff, and therefore worse.

Totem of Wrath, the original, best spellpower buff:
Demonwarlocks applies it through their normal rotation, and it can give up to 400+ extra spellpower for an entire raid. Elemental Shamans lose's DPS if they are the one who are giving the spellpower buff, and totem of wrath does only give 280 spellpower.

There are some more (like mages getting a bloodlust+sprint ability in Cataclysm and Frost DKs applying 20% melee haste without having any annoying totem to look after), but isn't it all just weird? In my opinion, it should be reversed, that the original's should get the best stuff.

Well, have anyone else noticed this strange pattern made by Blizzard?

(IMPORTANT: This is not a flame thread against classes, this is "flaming" against Blizzard's decisions. And sorry for my bad English.)

[Excalibur]

Have you noted how some players whine and bitch about the smallest things ?

/sarcasm

[Lark]

It's a pretty well known trait of design that as you return to a concept (in this case, buffing/debuffing) you end up not balancing them out correctly - usually, but not always, with the newer version getting a better deal. There are several better examples of 'new buffs' being better than 'old buffs'; especially relevant was the time when shamans had to spend more to get a worse talent for 10% ap.

That being said, many of these are getting fixed soon so they're aware and working on it.

edit: oh, and on a tangent, the spellpower buff issue isn't actually quite as simple as it appears. There's been tons of changes regarding that totem vs buff issue and the balancing isn't quite exact either. That's a work in progress, not really an older buff getting a worse deal.

[Frankminimia]

I think the Demo warlocks spell damage buff caps for the raid at the same amount as elemental totem, but still increases for the lock.

But yes i have noticed this trend.

[Lark]

I think the Demo warlocks spell damage buff caps for the raid at the same amount as elemental totem, but still increases for the lock.

But yes i have noticed this trend.

No it doesn't.

A demo warlock in top end gear likely provides double the buff over the elemental shaman.

[kneeo]

I think the Demo warlocks spell damage buff caps for the raid at the same amount as elemental totem, but still increases for the lock.

But yes i have noticed this trend.

Demonic Pact provides 10% of the warlock's spell power. Meaning that in high end gear and fully raid buffed they're giving upwards of 500+sp to everyone in the raid. That's a bit more than the 280 of totem of wrath.

[MushroomBomb]

I believe pretty much every one of the buffs you mention are being fixed in Cataclysm to be equal. There's absolutely nothing wrong in having buffs a bit spread out, so long as 8 out of 10 classes won't bring the very same one, in my opinion.

At the very least, so long that the buffs are as equal as possible, it's okay by me.

EDIT: For reference regarding Totem of Wrath vs. Demonic Pact (as it's not yet been posted on the frontpage.

[Surfd]

Curse of Elemenents, the original Spelldamage debuff:
Moonkin druids and Unholy Death Knights applies it through their normal rotations, no DPS lost, only DPS gained.
Warlocks have to use a Curse which deals no damage. If there isn't anyone else to apply the spelldamage debuff, warlocks will lose DPS compared to if they weren't needed to apply the debuff.

Actually, I dont think this example is fully accurate. Yes, in the OLD (as in OLD OLD Vanilla wow days), one warlock had to sacrifice some personal dps in order for the entire raid to benefit, which in any good raid environment, no one really minded (also, remember there were 15 extra raid spots, so it usually was not much of an Issue).

With Earth and Moon vs CoE however, I don't think it is entirely accurate to describe it in terms of personal dps gained / lost when comparing a boomkin vs a lock and CoE. I would assume that, when blizzard balances / looks at Moonkin DPS, they pretty much assume that the Earth and Moon effect is a 100% given for every max level boomkin, so their dps is balanced around it being there all the time.

Locks however, for personal dps, can chose between a curse that does damage, or CoE, for 13% more damage taken by the mob. Now, I may not know all the math behind it, but how much personal damage in a typical boss fight does Curse of Agony equal out to for a warlock? If you are not affliction, does CoA end up being 13% or more of your total damage? In the case of a lock, I am not sure what blizzard would look at when doing balance passes to tune their damage. Do they assume that ALL locks always use CoA?

Also, Curse of Elements is still better then Earth and Moon, since CoE also reduces all resistances by a heafty amount, which can make a difference in many situations.

[Arean]

Agreeing here.

Of course it is understandable that blizzard doesn't want one class to be necessary, just because it has this buff or that debuff, but the fact that all the new buffs/debuffs seem slightly more powerful just makes no sense. Same goes for the new Mage "Bloodlust". While I'm quite peeved about shaman losing their long time signature spell, what really bugs me is that the mage version gives a move speed buff as well. Can't really see why they're doing this.

[kerwyn]

Curse of Elemenents, the original Spelldamage debuff:
Moonkin druids and Unholy Death Knights applies it through their normal rotations, no DPS lost, only DPS gained.
Warlocks have to use a Curse which deals no damage. If there isn't anyone else to apply the spelldamage debuff, warlocks will lose DPS compared to if they weren't needed to apply the debuff.

This is being changed.

[lethargik]

warlocks are fine.

[Taurei]

The dps provided by CoD(coa is overrated if you aren't an affli lock) vs CoE is very minor so I don't get the point why people are crying, I in fact prefer doing coe over cod, spares you 4 mins every min spamming a button ;D

[Shawaam]

Many are writing stuff about CoE. Of course CoE > CoD/CoA if no other spelldamage debuff is on the target. What I meant was this:

Let's say we have two warlocks with the exact same gear etc. One is forced to CoE, and the other one is using CoA or CoD. The one using CoD and CoA will do more DPS than the one using CoE, therefore using CoE is a DPS loss compared to if you could use CoA or CoD.

[Edit:] ... while the druids and DKs can provide the debuff without sacrificing one of their damaging abilities.