Libram of three Truths

[Rëtribution]

Am I the only ret that thinks he's not going to get this? I tested this for 1 hero and 30 mins last night on dummies, and the downtime in between CS's and it stacking to 5 stacks shot my dps about ~800

Valiance usually netted me around 6.2k while Truths usually netted me about 5.4k

44 * 5 = 220
Valiance = 200

Anyone else got input on this? I cant find the EJ post or I'd link it here, Xyrm/Bluedeep(?) dove heavily into it before ICC patch came out

[Badpaladin]

It's better than the 245 libram for any fight where you can hit something for 15 seconds. It just has a ~45 seconds ramp-up time until the benefit passes up the 245 libram.

And really, I don't see how you're getting CS downtime. In an optimal setting(ie doing it right), your effective cooldown for CS should be 5 seconds. If you're referring to frontloaded burst, then Valiance wins out, but after ~45 seconds it stops.

There's just no possible way that it would shoot your DPS so low, unless you were testing periods of less than 45 seconds. Hell, even during heroism you should intuitively get 1 more CS in than usual due to the spell GCD of Exo/Cons being lowered.

And they spoke about it on EJ quite a bit, there's a summation(and chart) on the front page of the Retribution: Updated for 3.3 thread.

[Deleted]

Not one, not two BUT THREE TRUTHS!

[MestHoop]

You use SoV for heroics? o_O

[DaGhostDS]

You use SoV for heroics? o_O

on boss you lazy..

[Nillo]

on boss you lazy..

Bosses in heroics last longer than 10 seconds? Nah sorry not worth the gcd and mana !_!

[DaGhostDS]

Bosses in heroics last longer than 10 seconds? Nah sorry not worth the gcd and mana !_!

depend on the group
around 20-25sec+
SoV > SoC from 13sec if i remember right

[Badpaladin]

Yeah, I just do it how I normally do it in 25m and cast wings after my first Judgment. Usually get a full, or almost full duration of AW in with ~80% uptime of trinkets and a speed pot. It's very feasible to do 9k+ in that short span, 10k+ if there's an enh shaman.

Of course a well-geared arcane mage will do 20k+ if they play their toon right, so good luck beating that.

[Kisko]

Am I the only ret that thinks he's not going to get this? I tested this for 1 hero and 30 mins last night on dummies, and the downtime in between CS's and it stacking to 5 stacks shot my dps about ~800

Dummy is not precise enough: you missing all raid buffs, there is always a chance someone else will come and hit it, screwing your test data.

Three Truths is a good libram, it's BiS for trash, Saurfang, Festergut, Valks@LK. Every ret should have it.

[Dorn]

Yeah, I just do it how I normally do it in 25m and cast wings after my first Judgment. Usually get a full, or almost full duration of AW in with ~80% uptime of trinkets and a speed pot. It's very feasible to do 9k+ in that short span, 10k+ if there's an enh shaman.

Of course a well-geared arcane mage will do 20k+ if they play their toon right, so good luck beating that.

The bolded text is backwards, instead you should pop wings and then immediately use judgement, if you're quick enough you can fit 3 judges in during wings instead of 2.

[Nikoll]

The bolded text is backwards, instead you should pop wings and then immediately use judgement, if you're quick enough you can fit 3 judges in during wings instead of 2.

a lot of us have to apply the debuff so we have to lead with judge.

[Badpaladin]

The bolded text is backwards, instead you should pop wings and then immediately use judgement, if you're quick enough you can fit 3 judges in during wings instead of 2.

It has to do with procs having full uptime with wings. You essentially waste that first GCD because you don't have any ICD procs up, resulting in lower overall damage.

[BDF]

It has to do with procs having full uptime with wings. You essentially waste that first GCD because you don't have any ICD procs up, resulting in lower overall damage.

It is for reasons like this that I always lead out with divine storm to proc my trinkets and maybe repring/serking before I cast wings then judge in a fight.

[Trajer]

You really think a libram will cause an 800 dps difference?

lol

You must be doing something wrong.

[Badpaladin]

It is for reasons like this that I always lead out with divine storm to proc my trinkets and maybe repring/serking before I cast wings then judge in a fight.

Divine Storm over Judgment won't get you any higher chance to proc an ICD, you'll still get a chance at RV, seal + melee and DS/J. The point of what I'm saying is ICD procs + DS/CS/Melee/Exo/Cons at time zero with a speed pot(I pot on everything) is the highest DPS you can attain at the start of a fight, especially a heroic where the boss will last 20-30 seconds tops.

[BDF]

Divine Storm over Judgment won't get you any higher chance to proc an ICD, you'll still get a chance at RV, seal + melee and DS/J. The point of what I'm saying is ICD procs + DS/CS/Melee/Exo/Cons at time zero with a speed pot(I pot on everything) is the highest DPS you can attain at the start of a fight, especially a heroic where the boss will last 20-30 seconds tops.

I realize that, but I like to give my trinkets a chance to proc so that they are active for my first judge.

[Badpaladin]

Why? It's a burst situation, but not a short enough burst to ignore least-clash resolutions. Judgment with full procs at sub-4 stacks does less damage than Divine Storm with full procs, which has no ramp-up time.

[BDF]

Why? It's a burst situation, but not a short enough burst to ignore least-clash resolutions. Judgment with full procs at sub-4 stacks does less damage than Divine Storm with full procs, which has no ramp-up time.

I've got nothing but anecdotal evidence to say otherwise, however I would be interested in finding out if that is true.

Does that take into account that delaying judge for a cooldown allows the %13 spell damage buff to go up on the boss? Or what about averaging the chances that divine storm will reset within a gcd or two anyway over the starting of a few different encounters? or that sunder armor isn't up at the time?

In addition it ensures that I will get a third judge off in the duration of my wings, which I pop right after my divine storm as to take advantage of my trinkets being up and to squeeze as many into a fight as I can.

[Badpaladin]

Does that take into account that delaying judge for a cooldown allows the %13 spell damage buff to go up on the boss? Or what about averaging the chances that divine storm will reset within a gcd or two anyway over the starting of a few different encounters? or that sunder armor isn't up at the time?

It's about least-clash, not damage-per-cast. I don't parse heroics so all I've got is anecdotal evidence as well, but my Divine Storm hits harder than Judgment at sub-4 stacks. You also can't assume you'll have +13% or sunders up in a heroic. In a raid setting, even then least clash will preside over these things. As for Divine Storm, that logic simply isn't practical. If you could do that on a heroic boss, why not a raid boss? ...Because it's less DPS. Least-clash trumps damage-per-cast.

In addition it ensures that I will get a third judge off in the duration of my wings, which I pop right after my divine storm as to take advantage of my trinkets being up and to squeeze as many into a fight as I can.

The difference is very minimal, but you're allocating wings such that a third 5-stack Judgment will not have Speed Potion/ICD procs under wings whereas I'm getting a DS with full Speed Potion/ICD procs under wings. If you don't have a 277 weapon you'll likely see bigger results with the former, but if you do then you'll likely see the minimal increase with the latter.

Anecdotal evidence is fucking awesome =/

[BDF]

The difference is very minimal, but you're allocating wings such that a third 5-stack Judgment will not have Speed Potion/ICD procs under wings whereas I'm getting a DS with full Speed Potion/ICD procs under wings. If you don't have a 277 weapon you'll likely see bigger results with the former, but if you do then you'll likely see the minimal increase with the latter.

I guess I'm not seeing the point you're making from this particular paragraph, yes I'll have a third 5 stack judge with wings up...and I'll have a 4 stack judge with potion/procs/wings, and a 1 stack judge with potions/procs/wings. In addition to that the number of divine storms I get off in the time that wings is up would depend on the rng gods and t10 2 piece. And while I have seen my divine storm with trinkets up hit harder than a judge with solely wings up on the same fight/buffs/gearset that only occured when I had used two temporary buff trinkets (DV/WFS) and I have not seen it occur again since I have picked up TaJ.