Comparing everything to Vanilla.

[Jademist]

Trolling here I guess but I just want to say that its quite tiring to keep hearing people whining "vanilla WoW this" "Vanilla WoW that". Seriously, ALL MMO'S PROGRESS. Get over it. If you don't like the changes then go play Aion or something. So many whiners. I have enjoyed every single expansion so far and find the changes to be quite refreshing because they add new content and stuff to do. If we stayed at "vanilla" WoW I bet everyone, including yourselves, would've stopped playing. That or they will start whining about why WoW isn't progressing.

Just stop whining and play.

[General Vezax]

I didnt exist in Vanilla

Therefore, Vanilla sucked.

[Shiggity]

If you raided naxx in Vanilla only to see it recycled in wotlk, you'd be pissed off too.

[Caradinist]

If you raided naxx in Vanilla only to see it recycled in wotlk, you'd be pissed off too.

According to statistics that i don't even have, a small amount of people compared to the rest of the game population only saw the level 60 version anyways.

[Shiggity]

According to statistics that i don't even have, a small amount of people compared to the rest of the game population only saw the level 60 version anyways.

You still can't keep that % from being pissed. Ulduar and ICC were good, naxx and ToC were not, 2 good 25 man raids in one xpack = fail from my pov.

[Nymphys]

If we liked Vanilla the best, who are you to say we can't disfavourably compare everything else?

If you like Coke the best, at what stage is it no longer "legitimate" to say you prefer coke to other cola products? Until you like something better. Hasn't happened yet. Vanilla is still the bees knees.

[NecroNikolai13]

According to statistics that i don't even have, a small amount of people compared to the rest of the game population only saw the level 60 version anyways.

Firstly I adore your picture <333 Peace through power, brother.

And yeah, so few people actually saw Naxx40, that's why Blizz started "catering" to the casual base more. It seems like a lot of people confuse difficulty with time consuming. The most difficult thing about vanilla raiding? Getting that many people together to do it.

[Jeina]

Compared to the base game, everything is better. Except perhaps the community. It's gone downhill a bit.

[mebeblood]

when i first started playing wow, it was just before the first realm unlocked AQ. and honestly? it was some of the most fun ive had playing WoW. the leveling, the instances, it was all new and just was fun lol. when i finally started raiding, damn, nothing could beat that feeling of epicness, of like being in a group of that many people all going for gear competing against eachother like that. bosses didnt drop as much loot so when you got an epic it was awesome.

now? getting an epic is still fun, i wont deny it, getting rewarded for your efforts is good. in BC, getting epics was easier, but it was still an awesome expansion. kara, tk, ssc, bt, and za were all fun for me. Killing Illidan for my first time was fun too(before the nerf).

a reason ppl probably liked vanilla more is possibly the nostalgia factor and how everything was new, and that leaves an image of fun.

[Alar]

Firstly I adore your picture <333 Peace through power, brother.

And yeah, so few people actually saw Naxx40, that's why Blizz started "catering" to the casual base more. It seems like a lot of people confuse difficulty with time consuming. The most difficult thing about vanilla raiding? Getting that many people together to do it.

I disagree. The most difficult thing about vanilla raiding was getting that many people to know what the heck they were doing, and then to do it with excellence. And then creating encounters with mechanics that any one of the 40 people could irrevocably ruin. Nothing in WotLK can compare with that kind of difficulty.

Sunwell Plateau came closest in BC.

[Ebb]

I disagree. The most difficult thing about vanilla raiding was getting that many people to know what the heck they were doing, and then to do it with excellence.

you had 15 people with their heads out of their asses and carried 25 people i was MT and a RL for all of Vanilla.

Does anyone remember having a pally stay out of combat and just rez the bads? The game mechanics were so much easier to exploit back then, not to mention the encounters were so simplistic. If you dont agree look ant baron geddon or luci. or how about the 3 drakes in BWL, Sharazaraarara and the two right after him were cake too. Srsly even nef was an easy encounter. The only one that gave people trouble excecuting was Chromagus but even then ....

[Alar]

you had 15 people with their heads out of their asses and carried 25 people i was MT and a RL for all of Vanilla.

Does anyone remember having a pally stay out of combat and just rez the bads? The game mechanics were so much easier to exploit back then, not to mention the encounters were so simplistic. If you dont agree look ant baron geddon or luci. or how about the 3 drakes in BWL, Sharazaraarara and the two right after him were cake too. Srsly even nef was an easy encounter. The only one that gave people trouble excecuting was Chromagus but even then ....

Every example you just gave was from BWL or MC. Yes, once you got past the first 2 encounters, BWL was pretty easy. No one who says Vanilla raiding was hard even mentions BWL or MC. Did you guys even try AQ40 or the old Naxx? Twin Emps, C'thun? Four Horsemen?

AQ40 was a guild-breaker. Guilds went in there, and were eaten alive and spat back out in tiny pieces. Any instances like that in WotLK? Didnt think so.

[Spargon]

Did you do all of TBC and WOTLK without boss encounter add-ons and an internet flooded with kill videos and detailed strats? didn't think so

Yes Blizzard has made getting epics easier no one will dispute that but alot of the "Epicness" of Vanilla came from the limited internet and mod resourses available to the player community.

I can agree to an extent about people being mad over the Naxx recycle I saw everything in Vanilla but that however even at 80 it was a pretty big yawn-fest imo.

[Lilija]

If you raided naxx in Vanilla only to see it recycled in wotlk, you'd be pissed off too.

Naxx was a warm up ... not a real raiding. But then again, the amount of people who did the dragon achivements isn't that huge.

Now even we are going to whine how Naxx was easy and boring cause it's recycled content ... for the love of god, it was part of 1 tier of contents out of 4. So hardly 1/4 of whole raiding experience in WotLK. While Ulduar was a really great instance ... prolly the best I have ever done in 5 years of WoW (I haven't experienced only old Naxx cause I started raiding just before AQ40 was opened) and ICC 25 hm is quite enjoyable too - both can't be called recycled.

If Blizzard needs to use recycled content from time to time to focus more on really nice new things I can live with that. At least people have something to do to pass the time while devs are making new things better than if they had to hurry.

[Dephilia]

If we liked Vanilla the best, who are you to say we can't disfavourably compare everything else?

If you like Coke the best, at what stage is it no longer "legitimate" to say you prefer coke to other cola products? Until you like something better. Hasn't happened yet. Vanilla is still the bees knees.

These two examples don't go along.
The Cola example is one, where you still USE the product.

You don't play Vanilla WoW anymore, it's all nostalgia, then everything was better. Trust me, it wasn't. I don't think you were one of the guilds downing KT.

Also, ditching school/work or anything else for some pixels isn't healthy at all, so I think they've made progress. And how would you like to level a new alt, which not only takes ages to get to the level cap, but it takes even longer to gear him up. And you will never get a chance to see any endgame content if you don't ditch school/work.

[PrettyBiased]

Firstly I adore your picture <333 Peace through power, brother.

And yeah, so few people actually saw Naxx40, that's why Blizz started "catering" to the casual base more. It seems like a lot of people confuse difficulty with time consuming. The most difficult thing about vanilla raiding? Getting that many people together to do it.

So your beloved lich king 25 hard mode was not difficult just time consuming?

Did you do all of TBC and WOTLK without boss encounter add-ons and an internet flooded with kill videos and detailed strats? didn't think so

Yes Blizzard has made getting epics easier no one will dispute that but alot of the "Epicness" of Vanilla came from the limited internet and mod resourses available to the player community.

I can agree to an extent about people being mad over the Naxx recycle I saw everything in Vanilla but that however even at 80 it was a pretty big yawn-fest imo.

Bigwigs and DBM was created in vanilla and maintained up until your current addon, every other addon was available in vanilla either in its current form or some other alternative form. Saying addons made this expansion a failure is a huge and pathetic cop out on holding blizzard accountable for their preformance.

you had 15 people with their heads out of their asses and carried 25 people i was MT and a RL for all of Vanilla.

Does anyone remember having a pally stay out of combat and just rez the bads? The game mechanics were so much easier to exploit back then, not to mention the encounters were so simplistic. If you dont agree look ant baron geddon or luci. or how about the 3 drakes in BWL, Sharazaraarara and the two right after him were cake too. Srsly even nef was an easy encounter. The only one that gave people trouble excecuting was Chromagus but even then ....

you clearly raided nerfed content, MONTHS BEHIND everyone else.

[Sirsimeon]

This thread sucks... threads were so much better back in vanilla :\

[Duskmourne]

Trolling here I guess but I just want to say that its quite tiring to keep hearing people whining "vanilla WoW this" "Vanilla WoW that". Seriously, ALL MMO'S PROGRESS. Get over it. If you don't like the changes then go play Aion or something. So many whiners. I have enjoyed every single expansion so far and find the changes to be quite refreshing because they add new content and stuff to do. If we stayed at "vanilla" WoW I bet everyone, including yourselves, would've stopped playing. That or they will start whining about why WoW isn't progressing.

Just stop whining and play.

I don't care if you're trolling or not. You're right.

However, nostalga is a very powerful thing. For many people this was their first MMO, and your first is always really special. :

People fell in love with the game, as it was, then. Of course, it's not going to be as brilliant to them after playing for five freaking years. They don't seem to realize that the game itself has grown so much. It's not that the game is boring and old, it's that their perspective of it is.

If I were to be all nostalgic and long for the good old days, I would still be playing Ultima Online.

[Spargon]

I never implied this xpac was a failure because of mods or at all. I was simply pointing out one way the implied difficulty of Vanilla is being misconstrued as better game design.

Also yes DMB existed but not in the level of sophicstication it is now.

I personally love WOTLK yes Naxx was boring to me but I have enjoyed the other dungeons even ToC altho to a lesser extent.

[Cairm]

While stating Vanilla was harder, you actually need to be able to prove your point correctly.

We used addons in Vanilla. If we weren't, we KNEW what the boss's abilitys were, and were able to understand the core mechanics of the fights. I wa in a PvE mid-end raiding guild (AQ40 when BC was lunched) and I remember reading throught strats and thinking to myself, how can i be the most usefull here. I am sorry, but at the moment, with ICC going up 20% this week, i just do not give a flying fish about that kind of thing anymore.
Fights were hard for the same reason as today. Tight enrage timer made trivial because 2-3 dps dies per exemple, or healer not healing ENOUGHT when an AoE was coming. Undergeared tanks getting crushed can be also placed here.

Now to compare it to right now with WOTLK. Instead of trying to form a group for 10 minutes (wich was still epic back then because the dungeon were not that overused, yet quite large in term of boss's), you just click random dungeon and it pops and you AoE the whole place. This alone, added to the casual being able to access T9 that easily, is why WOTLK IS EASIER then VANILLA.

Hell if during the Naxx40 days in Vanilla someone had made the suggestion :

Let's give badges in Scholo, Strat and Dire Maul that when you have 50, you can get T2.5 (AQ40 set). This person would had been trolled on the forum for insanity