Heroic bosses: To skip or not to skip?

[Durandro]

So I'm beginning to notice a very distinct trend: healers and tanks want to skip everything, DPS wants to kill everything.

My question to the DPS is: Does your guild not have tanks and healers you can run with to speed up queue times?

Yes, because tanks and healers totally should be allowed to go it alone.

Seriously, I'm a healer and I'm rather annoyed by this attitude. I like doing all bosses. The same people who complain about WoW are the ones who mess it up. Mind you, the number of 6k+ GS who fail in HoS when attempting to do all bosses is hilarious.

In Cata I hope randoms only complete if you kill ALL the bosses in the instance.

[Yomiko]

No, my guild doesn't do "Heroic runs" and I'm a DPS. My younger brother, who is a healer will sometimes que up with me but honestly it really bothers me when a tank skips bosses.

You need to ASK first, just because your the big bad tank doesn't mean your the leader of the party and decides everything. If a tank asks, depending on the instance I'll always say "No, I want badges". Certain bosses like the Mushroom guy in OK are the only ones I don't care about skipping. Anything else (First two bosses in UK, Maiden/Rock guy in HoS, Novos and so on) really bother me if they are skipped.

It's down out rude for a tank to skip because it's "faster" for him to get HIS own badges then the DPS who've been waiting 20 minutes to find a party. inb4 "DPS are easy to come by, we don't need you". Yea try to solo a heroic with just a tank/healer and come back saying how long it took.

You're the one being rude here, ask first and sometimes people will be willing to skip. It's selfish to skip because it's faster alone for you.

Come Cataclysm we need to have "Kill all bosses" in order to get the last two badges. Sure it sucks for the people who join in on the last boss, but it would stop people from leaving after one wipe after the first boss (or some nonsense).

[Arandmoor]

So I'm beginning to notice a very distinct trend: healers and tanks want to skip everything, DPS wants to kill everything.

My question to the DPS is: Does your guild not have tanks and healers you can run with to speed up queue times?

Seriously? You ask this?

If there wasn't a shortage of tanks and healers you might have a good question. However, the answer, across the goddamn board, is no. It's a global problem. There are NOT enough tanks and healers for the number of dps in the game right now. So until that problem is solved, then no: guilds, in general do not have enough tanks and healers for people to run with to speed up queue times. Just like the PUG community.

[Gardod]

When I'm on healer or dps idc.. dont need emblems, but if we go all boses I can always buy gems with them.
When I'm doing daily with my tank and it usualy depend on me, I quickly look at ppls GS at start. If its a healer in need of emblems I ask him if he wants to do all, so its his call. If its a dps I automaticly do all (unless I have a bad day and cba). Takes like 5min of my time, but he has to wait another 10 min wait+10min dungeon to get the amount of skiped emblems. Still remember from gearing my mage what a hastle that is.

[vayron]

I simply cannot fathom why some people get upset about skipping bosses in heroics.

In fact, insisting that a 10 minute heroic run be turned into a 20 minute run seems extremely rude to me, and yet I find people all the time who insist that skipping bosses is poor etiquette.

First, yes I removed much of the OP's content.
My statements are regarding the above quoted text, and no I haven't read the entire thread yet.

What is wrong with people who are motivated to play the game and enjoy the content of the game rather than race to get badges/gear? Granted, the majority of current players likely DO prefer to fast clear to the last boss for a couple frosties, and I can understand their motivation, but I would hardly describe it as poor etiquette for some players to actually want to play a complete dungeon the way it was intended. On the contrary, at least to me, I think it's poor etiquette for players to insist on skipping optional bosses while some of the group wants to clear.

[Deleted]

the bosses in a dungeon are not put in there to skip i can imagine if you would want to skip a boss like the mushroom boss in OK, but if the boss is in the same route on your way to the boss why would you skip it, like that lich boss in DTK

And if you want to skip a boss you should always ask but if 1 person in the group needs it or wants then you should do it.

If you want to do a hc with less badges and less bosses then find a group that wants to do that with you

[Zeuq]

I think that, unless at least 2-3 people in the group needs everything, skipping should be the default. Besides the fact that asking everyone else to spend an extra 10 minutes so you can get one more Triumph Emblem is sort of selfish, it is no more efficient if you're farming the Triumph badges either.

Let's consider some of the more obvious examples, like Old Kingdom. Ignoring the wall jumping to skip the second boss, you can clear 2 boss in, say, 10-15 minutes, which nets you 4 Triumph emblems (assuming you're doing a random and already done the daily). If you clear everything, it can easily take 25-30 minutes or more, and you net 7 emblems. If you do the math, you can easily see that the time invested per Emblem is less by skipping bosses. Also consider Halls of Stone, you can get 4 Emblems in 10-15 minutes, or 6 in 20-25 minutes

Now, of course, if you're a tank or a healer, it clearly makes sense to skip if you're farming badges. And even if you're a DPS, if you can off-spec tank or healing, you probably ought to do that if you're farming Triumphs, because it'll be a lot faster. So, really, it's only more time efficient to clear everything if you're pure DPS because you have no choice but to wait out the 10-15 minute queue. Tanks and healers that insist on clearing everything obviously haven't really considered the circumstances.

But that leads back to the original part. Consider that most people are probably either just doing their daily for Frost Emblems, or are farming Triumphs but have a short queue, I think it's a reasonable concession if you're a pure DPS with 3-4 other people that don't need everything to be courteous and let them just skip stuff. And by the same token, I have no problem clearing more if it's pretty much right on the way (like the first couple bosses in UP, Keleseth in UK, Novos in DTK, etc.) or if more than one person really needs it.

[Waalt]

Being the tank I usually go with the flow may sound weird but with dps pulling ahead anyway it doesn't feel that odd :P

[Cactrot]

I simply cannot fathom why some people get upset about skipping bosses in heroics.

As far as I'm concerned, there are two types of people who do heroics:

• Typical players trying to do their daily random as quickly as possible
• Brand new 80's trying to earn badges as quickly as possible

For the first group of people (which I imagine constitutes at least 90% of the people doing heroics at any given time) getting to the final boss seems like the only thing that should matter. Skipping optional bosses (Hadronox, Prince Keleseth, Novos the Summoner, etc.) seems like it should be the obviously correct etiquette for heroics.

In fact, insisting that a 10 minute heroic run be turned into a 20 minute run seems extremely rude to me, and yet I find people all the time who insist that skipping bosses is poor etiquette.

For the second group of people, it's almost always more badges-per-hour to simply finish dungeons as quickly as possible, anyway, because of the bonus 2 badges per clear. The only possible exceptions to this rule are quick and easy optional bosses that can be done on the way to the final boss, such as King Dred, Elder Nadox and Infinite Corruptor. Even then, unless you're with a group specifically formed for farming badges, these bosses are best skipped. Bosses who are out of the way and/or have time-consuming mechanics (Novos the Summoner, Krystallus, Eck the Ferocious, Jedoga Shadowseeker, etc.) should absolutely never be bothered with, even when farming badges.

I'm mostly just interested in gauging the community's thoughts on this. I get the feeling that this is a case of a few irritated people yelling louder than the larger group of people who are quietly happy about skipping bosses.

------------ EDIT ---------------

So I'm beginning to notice a very distinct trend: healers and tanks usually want to skip everything, while mainspec DPS players usually want to kill everything.

My question to the DPS is: Does your guild not have tanks and healers you can run with to speed up queue times?

And to preemptively answer your next question: yes, my main is a healer, and yes, I typically dual spec tank for heroics and dailies. I also have 3 alts, of which 1 is a tank, 1 is a healer, and 1 is a DPS. When I play my DPS, I always queue with guildie tanks/healers.

aaaand that's where I stopped giving a crap what you have to say. That was a logic fail right there. Yea, a bunch of people only run for badges, but it sure as hell isn't 90%. I don't think you realize what the casual to hardcore ratio is, and apparently you've failed to consider that most hardcores have alts to gear up as well. Furthermore, looking at the percentage of people is dumb. You should be looking at the percentage of RUNS being made for badges vs daily. Cause guess what? If someone's gearing up an alt or new player, they're not going to stop at one run. They're going to do dozens and dozens of runs, but they still only count as one person.

Your post screams of "me me me" thinking. You think everyone else wants what you want, and refuse to get over yourself for long enough to consider what the overall picture looks like outside of your little world.

This message brought to you by someone who prefers to skip bosses, but still thinks you're a self centered twit.

[scudmuffin]

seems like the OP was correct, and that most people would like to just skip everything, and there is just a VERY vocal minority that doesn't want to skip

I play 3 dps classes and a tank, I skip all the bosses I can on all 4 characters, I don't care how long the DPS queue is, I want to be out of that dungeon as quickly as possible, since I've run them so many times it's not 'experiencing the content' anymore, it's being bored out of my mind.

[Excellent]

To me, heroics are fun. The badges are an added bonus, especially when you are trying to farm gold or just get tier gear.

One thing that rattled me about this thread are the people who say stuff like "im not gonna let scrubs waste my time" or "its extremely rude to want to do more than race to the end of the dungeon."

You guys are probably the same kids that were never taught manners by your parents. You probably never say thank you to people in RL or hold doors open for strangers at 7-11. So entitled aren't you!? The world just revolves right around you doesn't it?!

When you Q for a dungeon, whether you are tank, healer, or dps.... you aren't Queueing for a solo quest, you have to work with 4 other people to get it done. This means that you need to be considerate of other people's needs... shocking isn't it.

People do random heroics for different reasons. If you don't feel like helping some undergeared dps get some badges to improve their gear, don't fucking call them scrubs. You were a scrub once too and you didn't just get all that gear yourself. You had dps helping you down all those bosses for all those badges... stop being a dick and start being considerate of others... or stop doing heroics without your guildies.

[Manialol]

As a tank (Paladin), a healer (resto shammy/pally) and dps (ele shammy and arc mage) I usually want to skip as much as possible, but usually you run in to them hard headed morons that think they are always right.

Recently I ran a heroic with my pally tank. So i queued in to DTK for my random. I got stuck with 3 dps, who were doing about 800 dps each. The dungeon, at Novos, was already around 25 minutes long. So with me as prot doing 2500+ dps a pull and the rest doing between 500-1000, I wanted to skip it. All the dps and I get past the boss, though this holy pally in emblem gear pulled, distinctly pulled. I replied "keep running he will reset, and the dps and I did, though that holy pally was still in there. After a while we all had to run in and kill the boss. So, not a big deal, i figured it was an extra emblem. So as we continued, we downed the raptor boss. The pally pulls all the extra raptors, after the boss, and says don't be lazy you retarded tank. This is when I started getting rather upset with this paladin. I told him the trash is useless but he was not buying. So we go up the stairs to the trolls. Pull the pats and hug the wall all the way up to the next set. The paladin, nowhere to be found, rides up with all the extra useless mobs and starts cussing me out because he died.. The pull alone finished with only me alive and 1 dps. This paladin, who for one, never stepped foot in a 10/25 raid, was 80 for 2 months and healing and wasting time, had the indecentsy to whisper me and tell me how bad I was. I just hated this expierence and never want it to happen again. So when i queue i as a tank I first ask if they want to down all bosses(skippable bosses) and if they don't i just leave the instace and let them sit there for 20 minutes waiting for a tank.

TLDR: i hate people who suck and pull extra trash and bosses.

[ItachiZaku]

Usually depends on the group, but I voted for "Don't waste too much time on optional bosses, but don't bother with crazy shortcuts, either."

That being said, If I bother doing a daily heroic, it seems to be a 45 minute queue. My only source of income is that daily heroic, so any extra killing is extra gold. Yeah, in 45 minutes of queue time I can do 10-12 dailies, depending on which I decide to do, but f that, i'm doing other shit.

However, being nearly non-heroic BiS, I don't even need the badges for gems and no one uses flasks anymore (melee dps) so really, the only costs are repairs... which any good raiding guild allows raiders to expense that to the guild.

[darkwarrior42]

I simply cannot fathom why some people get upset about skipping bosses in heroics.

As far as I'm concerned, there are two types of people who do heroics:

• Typical players trying to do their daily random as quickly as possible
• Brand new 80's trying to earn badges as quickly as possible

You forgot about people who actually enjoy playing the game. But given your post, I can only assume you don't have fun playing the game, so it's an understandable mistake I suppose.

In fact, insisting that a 10 minute heroic run be turned into a 20 minute run seems extremely rude to me, and yet I find people all the time who insist that skipping bosses is poor etiquette.

Yeah, how dare people not assume that absolutely everyone wants to do a speed run and that nobody actually wants to play the game?

I'm sorry, but you're basically trying to find out why people don't want to play the game while playing the game. Stupid question.

As a tank (Paladin), a healer (resto shammy/pally) and dps (ele shammy and arc mage) I usually want to skip as much as possible, but usually you run in to them hard headed morons that think they are always right.

Pot, I have a letter here from kettle, who would like to speak to you regarding issues of coloration...

[Cactrot]

seems like the OP was correct, and that most people would like to just skip everything, and there is just a VERY vocal minority that doesn't want to skip

I play 3 dps classes and a tank, I skip all the bosses I can on all 4 characters, I don't care how long the DPS queue is, I want to be out of that dungeon as quickly as possible, since I've run them so many times it's not 'experiencing the content' anymore, it's being bored out of my mind.

Poll reading fail. Half of people don't seem to have a strong opinion (2 and 4. 2 says do them, but don't waste forever, so probably depends on the bosses) about 30% say skip 'em, 25% says do them. That's not exactly an overwhelming majority you've got there. Especially considering people who want to do them all are probably there for badges, thus will be in far more heroics than your just-the-random-daily crowd who just want to get in and out. So the people who want to do them all will be far more common to see in the heroics. If the average gearing up person just does 2 randoms a day, they will be the majority in most heroics. I dunno about you, but I sure as hell do more than 2 heroics a day when I'm gearing up a new char.

Seriously people, look at what's actually there, not just what you want to see.

You forgot about people who actually enjoy playing the game. But given your post, I can only assume you don't have fun playing the game, so it's an understandable mistake I suppose.


Yeah, how dare people not assume that absolutely everyone wants to do a speed run and that nobody actually wants to play the game?

I'm sorry, but you're basically trying to find out why people don't want to play the game while playing the game. Stupid question.

Pot, I have a letter here from kettle, who would like to speak to you regarding issues of coloration...

Damn straight on every point.

[Epiclurker]

When dungeons and raids are bad its the designers fault, when the playerbase stops supporting its self, its the playerbase's fault. I always ask on both my tanks. So what if that toon has ICC 25 gear, those badges might be buying epic gems for an alt. If someone wants to do all the bosses I find it no harder then skipping. What tanks and healers see as a 15 minute dungeon is sometimes a 45 minute dungeon for dps, including que time.

[GemaRawr]

I usually prefer to get to the last boss and get my frost emblems. With that said, each boss only takes 15-30 seconds if I'm not grouped with horribly geared players.

[Rykin]

Generally people see to want to skip bosses, I always skip eck. In UP/OK I usually ask the group what they want to do, half the time no one responds. THen complain when I skip a boss. :-\

[ItachiZaku]

I usually ask the group what they want to do, half the time no one responds. THen complain when I skip a boss. :-\

Jesus Christ. That is annoying. I don't care, even on under geared toons, whatever the majority wants, let's do it. If you enter and /s Hi guys, guess what? I'm going to /s Sup dude. If you ask if I want to skip or mind skipping, I'm going to reply. I think it's kinda rude to not reply. Even worse when you ask, no one says anything and THEN complains... shit, boot that idiot. What's so hard about /p I'd like the emblems, my alts need gems.

Something. Anything.

[rantus]

I think that, unless at least 2-3 people in the group needs everything, skipping should be the default. Besides the fact that asking everyone else to spend an extra 10 minutes so you can get one more Triumph Emblem is sort of selfish, it is no more efficient if you're farming the Triumph badges either.

Let's consider some of the more obvious examples, like Old Kingdom. Ignoring the wall jumping to skip the second boss, you can clear 2 boss in, say, 10-15 minutes, which nets you 4 Triumph emblems (assuming you're doing a random and already done the daily). If you clear everything, it can easily take 25-30 minutes or more, and you net 7 emblems. If you do the math, you can easily see that the time invested per Emblem is less by skipping bosses. Also consider Halls of Stone, you can get 4 Emblems in 10-15 minutes, or 6 in 20-25 minutes

No. It's selfish of the rest of the group if even one person wants to do the full thing. When you sign up for a random hc, its signing up for the full thing, not skip to the end as fast as possible. If everyone wants to skip it doesn't matter, but if you have a guy who still needs triumphs, he is in the right place and shouldn't be denied them because other people value their own time over his.


For example, my healer ended up with 34 badges after a hc where the group insisted on skipping a boss, just doing that extra boss would have saved me about 30 minutes doing another hc for one more, at the cost of maybe 3 minutes each to the group, which should hardly matter.

Basically, if you want to skip, make a group from your own server and don't waste someone's queue time to con them out of badges.