It is almost time to make hybrid's on par with the pure bloods. (TLDR at bottom)

[SamuraiJakkass86]

With the upcoming changes to spirit and healing, it has gotten me thinking on the future of heals in the world of hybrids.

The changes to spirit, make it so that the only spec that will benefit from additional healing power is the healing tree, making (presently) decent heals, sub-par for use in combat after the changes go into effect. My thinking behind this is that all that additional spell power (as an example) an elemental shaman has, will no longer effect their heals, making them weak. Enhancement already have week heals, and we even have talents for additional spell power right now! In the future, the heals will be even worse, creating rifts in our talent trees where the points spent will not be worth much.

The changes to heals and stamina, further promote the notion that off-spec healing is becoming worthless. We're having normalized HP amounts, and they are (according to the blue posts) supposed to be very high numbers. Not only that, but heals are no longer supposed to be easy to put out. It was at one point (I can't find it, haven't looked though..) stated in a blue post that you should have to do a lot more healing in order to get a target to full.

Knowing this, why would a hybrid use heals in combat (where it is actually an advantage presently over the pure bloods). In the expansion, it looks as though we'll just be doing less damage (5% supposedly), because "zomg we can heal!", which will at that point be worthless to us. At this point, it seems safe to say that our damage should be made par with the pure bloods. It seems silly to put us below in the first place when the only reason it is, is because we can heal - which is ultimately a utility to any non-heal specced player. Even the pure dps have utility right?

TLDR: Read the above stuff, it's good. Anyways, heals are on their way out for hybrid non-healers, so our damage should be brought up to par with the pure bloods.

[Nayt]

Regardless of how efficient off-spec healing will be, the fact remains that an Ench Shammy will still be able to heal itself .. a Rogue will not. To bring the Shammy's DPS up to par with the Rogue is to make the Rogue obsolete (outside of any functionality; aka Tricks).

Enjoy the fact that Hybrids are Hybrids, and Pure Bloods are Pure Bloods. They are different for a reason. Besides if your a decent player you can most likely match any regular player in DPS anyway, barring the fact that you're in a highly ranked progression raiding guild, and were that the case you'd understand the functionality of a hybrid and would've never created this thread.

[Cosmic Janitor]

The whole you can do stuff argument is flawed beyond anything. A Rogue can't heal itself, but the rogue has like 10^16 aother options to prevent dmg, cc the target, oneshot it and so on. The rogue is probably the worst example anyway.

[Aramore]

Good thing Rogues are getting a self heal in Cata then isn't it : P

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

This point doesn't really hold up against the reasoning behind the hybrid tax, which is the fact that they, as a class, can fill multiple roles in a typical raid. It has nothing to do with them healing themselves, as Rogues are getting a self-heal in Cataclysm anyway, plus Warlocks already self-heal. Also, as somebody else mentioned, the self-heals are only one aspect of survivability. The only reason the connection is being made between self-heals and hybrids by people is because of the word "heal". Mages can't self-heal, but they can go immune to damage, blink away from danger, and go invisible. Hunters can feign death, go immune to damage, and fly away from danger. Many of these things are more useful than the self-heals or teleport that Warlocks get, but they can also be less useful, depending on the fight.

[Blackmask]

I think honestly the "Self heal" is a wrong way to look at this. In pvp yes it is nice to be able to heal ones self, but all classes can do that through eating/bandages and pots. I think the "tax" you said comes from the ability to do something else besides just one thing. You as a hybrid in dps spec in a pinch can hop to heal and in some cases tank as well, of course your healing/tanking would not be nearly as good but would be much better then nothing at all.

For example if a healer goes down during a boss fight towards the end any shaman, druid or pally "Could" in theory jump out of dpsing to help keep the tank up for the few moments its needed. Where as a mage, lock, rogue.

*shrug* Don't know I do feel bad for hybrids that they can't do as much dps as only dps classes can do but if they could then I'd feel really bad for dps classes.

[Rape-O-Matic]

Any class with the ability to fill more than one roll is, by definition, a hybrid and thus suffers from the slight "hybrid tax" END OF STORY.

Stop with the "QQ i rolled a hybrid for I can do moar stuffs and am are get beat by pewr klasses NURF BUGHF"

[Gestopft]

With the upcoming changes to spirit and healing, it has gotten me thinking on the future of heals in the world of hybrids.

Exactly what changes to spirit and healing are you referring to in this argument? All that I've read says that spirit will be stat for all healers, providing regen, and that boom/ele/shadow priests will gain hit from spirit. Spellpower will scale with int. They may have a spirit->healing power for every tree, but I haven't gotten the impression that off-spec heals will be significantly weaker than they are today. Am I missing something? Do you have a blue post for what I'm missing?

[Takanami]

Hybrids do in fact keep up with pures in many situations. The gap isn't so huge that hybrids ever feel gimped compared to pures. Also, I have seen several occasions in raids where a healer goes down and a hybrid has been able to pick up heals in order to finish the fight. Twice I have seen plate dps able to pick up the boss right at the end after the tank goes down and buy enough time to down the boss. Once was a war the other was a dk and both times in ICC. In pvp hybrids are able to deal plenty of damage as well as having the resources they need to survive with bubbles heals etc.

[Shroud]

frankly why do you care so much so what if the rogue does more dps i myself am a warrior who hates tanking but ohwell i enjoy fury and arms dps there both fun in my opinion and before bad tank. Yes i am a bad tank and dont like the annyonance of people blaming me for everything that goes wrong doest sit well me :-\ lol anyways point is play what class you like and play it to the best if you wish or whatever idc. :

[myrkyr]

The hybrid tax is a joke. For all intents and purposes it doesn't exist.In full ICC loot with skill aside, RNG makes a bigger difference.

[ProTech]

If a pure dps class underpowered, then you screwed. The only option left to them is to reroll.

If a hybrid class does low damage, they still can spec to healing or tanking.

This thing happens already, the HC ICC25 LK first kill does not have any mages, because the viable spec for that fight Fire was too low on damage. They have every other class, if not as dps then tanks and healers.

If a pure does lower damage then a hybrid, then what is the point in pure classes?

[Ruargh]

Regardless of how efficient off-spec healing will be, the fact remains that an Ench Shammy will still be able to heal itself .. a Rogue will not. To bring the Shammy's DPS up to par with the Rogue is to make the Rogue obsolete (outside of any functionality; aka Tricks).

DK's got self heals. Yeah they're technically a hybrid, but not a healing one.
does not compute...

[Negrido]

As a warlock I must say, I do not think it is okay for a hybrid to match a pure.

Yeah they're technically a hybrid, but not a healing one.

There is nothing technical about it. Death knights and warriors are just as much hybrids as shamans and paladins. The ability to heal is not what makes you a hybrid. It is the ability to fill more than one of the three roles.

[Deleted]

The hybrid tax is a joke. For all intents and purposes it doesn't exist.In full ICC loot with skill aside, RNG makes a bigger difference.

This.

Hybrid in DPS equipment and DPS spec will perform on the same level as pure DD classes, everything else is a problem with the person behind the screen.
Differences can also be caused by boss design, like cleaving, absorbing, or whatsoever.

And Cataclysm wont change a damn fact about it, hell, healers are even supposed to bring a little dps into a boss fight instead of only healing.

[MortalWombat]

Personally I don't think there should be a anything difference in dps.

The idea "You can heal so you should do less dps" is a stupid one. Them healing already nerfs their dps, so why nerf it more? If a shaman and a rogue both do the same dmg and a shaman casts a heal, the rogue is now ahead in the charts.

And I think only hunters can't heal themselves in cataclysm. Rogues get that combo point finisher, Mage gets Evocation Glyph, Warlocks get a lot more.

So should hunters do more dps than anyone because they can't even heal themselves?

People acting like hybrids doing the same dmg as them will make them obsolete are being silly. Even if the class can do the same damage as yours, there will always be the human parts to playing that can make you still do more dps.

Think they bring stuff you can't bring? Well lets see here. Rogues get the rare 4% physical damage debuff and Tricks of the Trade. Mages are getting a blood lust ability and can create tables/portals while having polymorph. Warlocks can give health stones, soul stones, summoning portals, and blood pact. Hunters have Misdirect, Trueshot aura, and the only class that does physical damage from range.

[Cosmic Janitor]

If a pure dps class underpowered, then you screwed. The only option left to them is to reroll.

If a hybrid class does low damage, they still can spec to healing or tanking.

This thing happens already, the HC ICC25 LK first kill does not have any mages, because the viable spec for that fight Fire was too low on damage. They have every other class, if not as dps then tanks and healers.

If a pure does lower damage then a hybrid, then what is the point in pure classes?

Thats BS. If someone is already doing no DMG do you seriously think any raid will task them with a role the whole raid depends on even more? Thats like sending a guy who can't even clean the floor to do brainsurgery. If anything its the other way around, bad healers/tanks are forced to do dmg, because they do the least harm there.

About the mage thing. A rogue is a pure class and does MAD dps. If the mage does much less than him, because he isn't viable (which is debatable anyway) thats a design flaw concerning the mage class and not the hybrids. Most hybrids aren't even interested in healing/tanking. A rogue usually isn't interested in healing/tanking either, same goes for warlocks, hunter and mages. The class is justified by the thing they do and the support they bring along, not what they could do.

You can't change your role during an encounter anyway. Its not like a DK does suddenly start tanking HC25LK when one tank disconects. They can change as soon as they take a break, a time in which they could swap the lost tank anyway.

The only argument that counts something in this debate is, that hybrids can collect gear while playing a diffrent role, where others have to change characters and gear seperatly. But by doing so, you usually end up with the short stick, because most guilds use dkp or other ranking systems and you burn away your currency (ofc I know there is a guy who says this does not apply to him, and another who says the same, but lets face it, thats how most guilds roll these days).

[Ruargh]

There is nothing technical about it. Death knights and warriors are just as much hybrids as shamans and paladins. The ability to heal is not what makes you a hybrid. It is the ability to fill more than one of the three roles.

Indeed the ability to heal doesn't make you a hybrid.
My point is that enh shammies aren't the only DPS spec that have a self heal. The DPS/tank DK has a self heal to. You as a warlock should know all about self heals tbh...
Being able to do something that isn't inherent to your role is nothing new and definately not something only hybrids can do.

I just wish that people would get into their think skulls that if you use the DPS end of a hybrid class you don't give a rats ass about what you could or couldn't do if you'd be another spec. If your DPS spec you DPS, end of story. If you want to be a healer or a tank you're definately in the wrong spec...

[Zizzagee]

If you let my hunter tank raid bosses your dps can be on par with pure classes

[Dexiefy]

sure, as soon as pures get utility of hybrids like druids or paladins
But oh wait, i belive blizz should make hybrids equal between eachother first... cause warrior or deathknight utility is FAR behind the utility of feral druid or retardin