It is almost time to make hybrid's on par with the pure bloods. (TLDR at bottom)

[jstar80]

TLDR: Read the above stuff, it's good. Anyways, heals are on their way out for hybrid non-healers, so our damage should be brought up to par with the pure bloods.

That is literally the worst argument I have read on these boards. Because your healing, which you were never intended to be good at in the first place because you aren't specced as a healer, is now (as intended) weak you think you should do more damage... That makes no sense at all. The reason you have a hybrid tax is because you COULD if you wanted to spec into a different role. If pure DPS classes don't do more damage and there is no COST for your flexibility why would anyone ever pick a pure dps class over a hybrid?

[Astray]

As a warlock I must say, I do not think it is okay for a hybrid to match a pure.

Okey, lets make demonology a tankspec. You dont like tanking? Does not matter. Say goodbye to all wins in dps. Not fun anymore? Why not? Thats -10% for having a role you dont like, thats fine, thats fair!

[Mongoose19]

Roll a hybrid and enjoy not being picked for raid

/thread

[Ruargh]

Okey, lets make demonology a tankspec. You dont like tanking? Does not matter. Say goodbye to all wins in dps. Not fun anymore? Why not? Thats -10% for having a role you dont like, thats fine, thats fair!

This is filled with truth, that and sarcasm :P

[Frozenbeef]

No....it's time for Hybrids to become even stronger than pure bloods and more powerfull than ever before! No longer shall our boomkins be out dpsed by a lower geared warlock! No longer shall our holy paladins run away from mages!!!No longer shall our dk tanks cry over being kited by hunters!

0o

[Negrido]

Okey, lets make demonology a tankspec. You dont like tanking? Does not matter. Say goodbye to all wins in dps. Not fun anymore? Why not? Thats -10% for having a role you dont like, thats fine, thats fair!

When I first started playing this game I made a warlock. I made one because I was told mages were some of the highest damage dealers of all the classes. I was told that warlocks could match mage damage, but via slightly different means. My point being, part of what appealed to me was being able to do a lot of damage.
If you are interested in doing damage, why would you pick a class that is described as, and reported to do, slightly less damage than another?

[Contion_BB]

You know Enh Healing in raids is pretty much going away in Cataclysm...

reason? NO MORE INT on PHY DPS MAIL GEAR. Yeah we will have a talent that will most likely make us gain more SPL DMG (not healing bonus) SEE - Mental Quickness. And most likely a talent like ret pallys have to make us gain MP back faster (but that would require being in melee range)

So for an Enh Shaman to "fall back" and start healing... Yeah I don't see it...

Ret Pallies have Similar issues already... and its obvious that they aren't being hit by the Hybrid tax (IE Pallies being the highest DPS in ICC25) can a Ret pally Throw out a heal? yes at the cost of 75% of their mana pool...

For a shaman 75% of our mana pool would be to drastic of a DPS lost for us that it is not worth throwing a heal. I For one will have healbot disabled when I am in my Enh/Ele Spec from now on.

And the Argument should have been more along the lines of buffs getting spread out even more so in cata... IE: Mages - Time Warp. The real question will be WHY bring a subpar dps class that has their buffs spread between 5 other classes... all of which are PURE DPS / High End Hybrid DPS...

(now mind you I am not saying Enh shaman dps sucks... matter of facts I am usually in the top 5 on a 25 and top 2 in a 10. but if a pure dps that is always the top 1/in top 5 brings the same buff why bring them?)

[Laukkanen]

Making the pure dps classes better then for example cats, boomkins, warriors and retris kinda makes the hybrid dps role worthless. Why would anyone bring a retri pala if there's a warlock or mage available? Go spec tank or holy and come back.

If you're dps specced you should compete with the dpsers. You can only be one spec at a time anyway, so if you're in retri, why should you be able to heal or tank aswell? Your spec is dps and the heals are just a side effect of you being a paladin.
Yes, you can heal yourself, but is it really a viable option to heal yourself in a raid or dungeon in retri spec? If so, you're free to do that.
I assume those who actually use their heals when dpsspecced do so when questing or maybe in BG. It's not like the heals are amazing anyway and why should they be? You're a dps!

[Seraphk]

Good thing Rogues are getting a self heal in Cata then isn't it : P

The only class that cannot heal itself can now heal itself.

The hybrids not =/= pure is now over indeed.

[Brittany]

The off spec actions (self healing) isn't the issue.

The issue is, you can go and respec to heal if your raid needs a healer. You can respec to tank if your raid needs a tank. The pure DPS classes are just DPS.

You choose versatility over topping the meters when you pick these classes. A rogue, hunter, lock needs to have a dps edge over a druid. Otherwise whats the point in playing them.

[ItachiZaku]

Hybrids do in fact keep up with pures in many situations. The gap isn't so huge that hybrids ever feel gimped compared to pures.

Truth.

Last LK kill, top 5 DPS: SPriest, Elemental Shaman, Boomkin, Enh Shaman, Spriest with the mage just behind the second spriest.

That was overall damage for the place, I think the LK kill (2 wipes, alt /2 pug) the mage was 4th in damage on the encounter... sounds about right, might have been #3.

Standard 25 mans, usually the DKs and a ret are top 5, but this past week it was Mage/Elly/Mage.

[Contion_BB]

The off spec actions (self healing) isn't the issue.

The issue is, you can go and respec to heal if your raid needs a healer. You can respec to tank if your raid needs a tank. The pure DPS classes are just DPS.

You choose versatility over topping the meters when you pick these classes. A rogue, hunter, lock needs to have a dps edge over a druid. Otherwise whats the point in playing them.

What role you can fill and when... is not the issue... and if you think that its seriously off... I am being penalized for being able to go heal spec if I want? Guess what until the introduction of dual spec... and the respec limit put on... the abilit to just go respec for what the raid needed... was very off NOT only do we get limited by our performance but we use to also have to spend 150 gold+ to respec...

Besides DPS classes have MULTIPLE dps specs... where they can change the utility they bring to a raid... sometimes its better for a hunter to be survival... sometimes better for MM... Warlocks use to be able to tank bosses in BC depending on spec... or just be pure dps... with rogues their have the added poison affects versus the pure dps... so the "idea" of being able to change spec depending on raid needs... is very very very wrapped.

[Laukkanen]

The off spec actions (self healing) isn't the issue.

The issue is, you can go and respec to heal if your raid needs a healer. You can respec to tank if your raid needs a tank. The pure DPS classes are just DPS.

You choose versatility over topping the meters when you pick these classes. A rogue, hunter, lock needs to have a dps edge over a druid. Otherwise whats the point in playing them.

Making the retri, boomkin, feral cat, boomkin etc useless for anything but questing as no one would bring a lesser dps to a raid when you can get the pure dps classes.

Warriors tank
Paladins are healers
Shamans have bloodlust but suck

Is the way it should be.

[exdeath202]

The day my mage can heal like a heal or tank like a tank by changing talents, ill agree with hybrids doing as much damage as him.

[Mongoose19]

The day my mage can heal like a heal or tank like a tank by changing talents, ill agree with hybrids doing as much damage as him.

Go to your cave fail troll

[exdeath202]

Go to your cave fail troll

You made a troll post and failed, i just gave a very valid opinion.

[Borakh]

The balance will never be 100% equal, but for the vast majority of players out there, the balance is good enough that they don't feel forced to reroll, neither class nor role. The problem is the fixation on Recount. There are really not so many moments in the game where 500 DPS will make the difference. Blizzard have stated their goal of "bring the player, not the class" over and over. Prefared playstyle should be the main consideration in picking a class and spec, there should be a lot of freedom in raid composition, there should be no "must haves" or "mustn't haves". And honestly, they aren't too far off the mark. Being a game designer myself, I can only say kudos.

[Phantazm]

Good thing Rogues are getting a self heal in Cata then isn't it : P

so let me get this straight.

you're saying that because rogues are going to get ONE heal that might not be useful for anything after leveling, that makes it fair to balance a hybrid's class damage spec(s) to be on par with rogue dps?

so one semi-useful heal = an entire healing talent tree and ability set?

i think not.

[Seraphk]

The off spec actions (self healing) isn't the issue.

The issue is, you can go and respec to heal if your raid needs a healer. You can respec to tank if your raid needs a tank. The pure DPS classes are just DPS.

You choose versatility over topping the meters when you pick these classes. A rogue, hunter, lock needs to have a dps edge over a druid. Otherwise whats the point in playing them.

I was kidding bout the self-healing. lol

The point in playing them is that you enjoy dealing damage on the class so much that you do not want to do anything else, but would prefer dealing damage via different mechanics (with different strengths pending the situation), but similar spells because you are the same class.

Is it particularly unfair to a degree that someone can re-spec into completely different roles with the tough of a button? Yes. Is it applicable in the majority of raids where people are brought based on utility they provide during the fight rather than between fights? No.

If they need damage, they should take a damage dealer with more unique in-combat utility -- All classes provide this. Difference is, there are a ton of hybrids in the game because people usually want versatility personally. When it comes down to raids though, raid leaders are required to think about the versatility of their group as a whole. I'd rather take a Rogue for Tricks of the Trade, a Hunter for Misdirect, a Mage for Int / Food, a Warlock for healthstones / soulstone, etc. if I already have a Paladin / Druid tank.

In some situations could I use a Paladin for an extra bubble / blessing or a Druid for an extra innervate / battle rez? Sure, but such utility is used only in emergencies & does not help anyone but terrible players while the utility that the pure damage classes provide can help with damage done & speed up the killing process.

In the end, pure DPS classes say that hybrid's ability to switch roles is unfair to them. If you consider this so highly, roll a hybrid a class. But, in a raid environment, if you're specced DPS -- You should be able to do competitive DPS whether you're a hybrid or pure DPS class. Both provide the same amount of in-combat utility now that Blizz has given (and continues to give in Cataclysm) every class utility abilities.

[serif]

Aren't DKs hybrids? Some of the ones I see sure as hell can top Dps meters .... so if they do have a hybrid tax, it must be overwritten by a retard tax that awards them with more damage since they have to put up with all of the dummy DKs (the ones with 'Death' in their name - thats how you spot them) that propagate the stigma about their class.