Warrior start threating on bosses some advice pls.

[Allìus]

What i do for pulling a boss is:

Pop my macro(RW countdown to pull counts down 5 seconds)

Pop recklessness
Pop shield block
Pop Bloodrage and beserking rage
Pop enraged regeneration right before you charge(last 10 secs you will have 4-5 seconds of 20% more dmg)[sometimes i throw in last stand depending on the fight the 20% increase can 1 shot you on lk(before icc buff haven't really done lk much on 25 man since)]

then charge, with a shield slam crit, followed by a shockwave crit. then i do 5 devastates to max sunder Drop TC and demoralizing shout, and keep them up spamming Shield slam, then revenge, then my timed buffs/debuffs(demo/commanding/TC) then shockwave, with devastate as the last thing i do

[Deleted]

The point is that you should open up with an ability that forces the mob to focus on you. Not an ability that does threat because there's a chance that the ability won't land. So sure, Mocking Blow can be parried so then you taunt.


I wouldn't argue against someone that said to open up with taunt, btw. I just generally choose to open up with mocking blow. I would definitely argue with someone that said to open up with a threat ability like shield slam.

There's no point focusing the mob to you, as all you do is to waste a GCD's worth of threat. If you raid with some sick dpser who just can't help but go all out nuke from second 1, then having the boss focused for 8 seconds or whatever MB is won't help you.

And if you can't see why using Taunt as an opener is good in some encounters, well, I guess that's your loss.

Much better alternatives? Please sum them up. Glyph of blocking? Minuscule difference in damage taken/threat. Sunder armor to hit 2 targets? Don't make me laugh. Glyphing Shield Wall isn't necessary at all. Rofl at glyphing taunt.

I use that macro because a lot of fights require tank rotations. Taunting first, and then adding a big load of threat with glyphed mocking blow gives you a head start on agro, instead of having to fight for it.

Mocking blow by itself doesn't taunt, it just forces target to attack you for the duration. Doing mocking blow first, and then taunting, would be stupid as it would totally waste the threat from mocking blow. Which is why I taunt first.

I'd only glyph taunt for select few bosses in ICC, but they're cheap (usually) so you can live with switching them around a bit.

Some reading http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?61063-Burst-threat-with...Mocking-Blow-Strange-but-true!

This is actually a good point, but in all honesty you should reconsider the glyph of shield wall, and what's with the "rofl" on glyph of taunt? But even if MB may give a nice burst, in a fight where long term threat is a problem Dev, Blocking or Vigi are superior, as Alianthos already summed up for you.

[Alianthos]

/sigh
Just fucking HT and charge and then hit taunt.

That doesnt make any sense... Taunt does NOTHING if the target is already attacking you. Why would you do that, seriously ?

[Chozobo]

That doesnt make any sense... Taunt does NOTHING if the target is already attacking you. Why would you do that, seriously ?

WRONG. It puts up a debuff on the target. That debuff will make that target stay on you for 3 seconds no mater what. This is especially useful when a DPS gets a lucky 20k crit the first 2-3 seconds of the fight.

[Elica]

Don't take this on the wrong side, Elica, but as far as your armory can tell, you haven't step anywhere near ICC 25 HM, so don't try to share your opinions and pretend you speak the truth because (hear my voice) you are wrong.

YES. There are better alternatives.
- Glyph of Blocking. Hell yes. 100% uptime, 10% extra block value. Hellooo ? 1 Block Value = 1 Shield Slam damage. Do I need to say more ? It's one of the best "hell-yeah-extra-aggro" glyphs out here. There's also some mitigation in it, so it's pretty nice.
- Glyph of Devastate : faster Sunder stacking. 5 sunders up = flat 15% melee damage increase. Plus it lets you more time to work on your rotation.
- Glyphing shield wall isn't about beeing necessary, it's about encounter and progression. Try Sindragosa 25HM as a warrior tank. Yes, you need to glyph the SW, the Last stand and grab Improved Disciplines. But Shield Wall is not mandatory, i give you that. Most endgame warriors tank pick one of the CD glyphs though, because you just need shorter CDs. Check Ensidia, Paragon, CUTIES ONLY warrior tanks.
- Glyph of Taunt : this is where I lost all hope i had left for you. If you don't take this glyph seriously that's because you never praticed some encounter where tanks switching are critical. Putricide p3, Sindragosa, Saurfang (all 25 HM, obivoulsy). You could also mention Lady Deathwisper's adds, Valithria adds, Lich King soul reaper switching. Glyph of Taunt is just the way to get rid of these F*CKING miss taunts, that's why so many warrior have it.
- Glyph of Vigilance, extra aggro ftw. Another solid alternative.

Trust me, if you are serious about tanking, there's NO ROOM here for Glyph of barbaric insults. You dont need to queue a Mocking blow after some Taunt, or after the pull... Just use our reliable tanking abilities, bash the boss with SS, devastate, queue some HS, revenge, collect loot and proceed to the next boss. Just as simple as that.

I was actually expecting armoury bashing, because it's so much easier to point at armoury than to actually make counter arguments. I dinged 80 on my warrior about a week ago (and tanked 4/12 icc 10 already, without anyone carrying me), but I've spent several months researching tanking theorycrafting, due to also playing a paladin tank. Glyph of blocking used to be good, but in ICC it's pretty pointless. Your TPS should never be a problem, and the tiny bit of extra block should never make or break it. I use MB for burst threat, not threat over time.

I already use Glyph of Devastate, also for burst threat. Glyph of Shield Wall is a matter of opinion and experience. You know of several high profile tanks who use it, and I know of several who don't use it. Hence why I consider it unnecessary.

Sorry for you "losing all hope in me". Allow me to take a big step over that arrogant response and point to the place in my post, where I said that I WOULD glyph taunt for SOME fights in ICC where a taunt resist could make or break an attempt. Glyph of Vigilance should never be necessary.

You say the extra burst threat isn't necessary, and I say that extra threat over time isn't necessary. Difference is, I'm not trying to shove my opinion down your throat.

[Chozobo]

Don't take this on the wrong side, Elica, but as far as your armory can tell, you haven't step anywhere near ICC 25 HM, so don't try to share your opinions and pretend you speak the truth because (hear my voice) you are wrong.
- Glyph of Taunt : this is where I lost all hope i had left for you. If you don't take this glyph seriously that's because you never praticed some encounter where tanks switching are critical. Putricide p3, Sindragosa, Saurfang (all 25 HM, obivoulsy). You could also mention Lady Deathwisper's adds, Valithria adds, Lich King soul reaper switching. Glyph of Taunt is just the way to get rid of these F*CKING miss taunts, that's why so many warrior have it.

This is where you fail. You can macro vigilance to put it temporarily on the maintank for unlimited taunts, just in case you miss one. Doing this completely makes the glyph of taunt useless.

Kinda ironic though, seeing you bash others because they aren't "anywhere near ICC 25 HM" yet you recommend glyph of taunt? Lol! Let's see your armory to see how good you are.

[Elica]

This is where you fail. You can macro vigilance to put it temporarily on the maintank for unlimited taunts, just in case you miss one. Doing this completely makes the glyph of taunt useless.

Kinda ironic though, seeing you bash others because they aren't "anywhere near ICC 25 HM" yet you recommend glyph of taunt? Lol! Let's see your armory to see how good you are.

I can see how such a macro could make glyphing taunt for taunt-sensitive fights completely pointless. Ty for sharing.

[Waterwings]

This is where you fail. You can macro vigilance to put it temporarily on the maintank for unlimited taunts, just in case you miss one. Doing this completely makes the glyph of taunt useless.

Kinda ironic though, seeing you bash others because they aren't "anywhere near ICC 25 HM" yet you recommend glyph of taunt? Lol! Let's see your armory to see how good you are.

i would highly dissagree misses on taunt @ saurfang hc if your guild is still progressing, the healing he does is insane..

Also on LK hc it'll possibly kill your maintank if you have to taunt for soul reaper, and you miss (your taunt wont reset INSTANTLY..)

for festergut, yeah shouldnt be a problem.

[Alianthos]

This is where you fail. You can macro vigilance to put it temporarily on the maintank for unlimited taunts, just in case you miss one. Doing this completely makes the glyph of taunt useless.

Kinda ironic though, seeing you bash others because they aren't "anywhere near ICC 25 HM" yet you recommend glyph of taunt? Lol! Let's see your armory to see how good you are.

Knock yourself out, http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...in&n=Alianthos

Vigilance on the other tank is not reliable for this kind of encounters. The refresh isn't guaranteed, the other tank needs to bit hit (i give you the fact that this has a good chance to happen xD). Also, you waste a GCD for this. And there are other fights when taunting is not about siwtching tanks, so this macro is ok for Saurfang, not for DW or Valithia (adds) or for the lich king (I think this fights involves, like 50 taunts in one single pull). I'll be honest : I did this before (using vigilance to have permataunt). Yeah, it worked. No, it's not optimal. I'm just saying, glyphing taunt is the way to make SURE every single taunt you use works. As easy as that. It brings you confort, safety, reliability. The only fight I use Vigilance (permanently) on the other tank is for the lich king. I put vigilance on the tank tanking Arthas (or a fury warrior, or a ret paladin) and since since guys are getting constantly hit by ghouls, I can taunt every single add back to me, during p1. Then i switch Vigilance back on some high-tps DPS.

So, when i comes down to serious tanking :

- Glyph of taunt
- Glyph of devastate
- Glyph of blocking
- Glyph of shield wall
- Glyph of last stand
- Glyph of vigilance

If you got something out of this list, well, then you fail as a PVE endgame warrior tank (not counting glyphs for trash tanking, or anub25 tanking, or offtanking because this is a bit special).

I'm not trying to shove my opinion down your throat.

These are not my opinions. I'm just sharing the current compendium about raiding warrior glyphs.
I'm not really trying to shove anything into any hole of yours. I'm just trying to help you see why Glyphin mocking blow is bad bad bad. Mocking blow in itself is okay, and i can see why you want to use it first after the taunt pulling : to keep the boss on you, to let you some time to build a solid threat. It's not mandatory, and 99% of the warrior tanks dont do this. Just SS the boss and ask your dps to wait 1 sec before nuking shit. If you really NEED Mocking blow because some dps aggro back the boss everytime you tank, then either a. You're outgeared by them, which is very possible, or b. You dont know how to build your threat properly.

On the other hand GLYPHING it is bad, and i you cant see WHY, well then i suggest you spend another couple months studying theorycrafting.

Sorry for beeing condescendant, i didnt mean to hurt your feelings... But if i tell you i'm currently progressing in ICC 25 hardmode 9/12 while you are 4/12 10 normal mode, don't you think -maybe- i know what i'm talking about ? Just trying to help here. Feel free to do as you want. Just sharing the way things are done endgame.

[Elica]

[...]
- Glyph of taunt
- Glyph of devastate
- Glyph of blocking
- Glyph of shield wall
- Glyph of last stand
- Glyph of vigilance

If you got something out of this list, well, then you fail as a PVE endgame warrior tank (not counting glyphs for trash tanking, or anub25 tanking, or offtanking because this is a bit special).
[...]
These are not my opinions. I'm just sharing the current compendium about raiding warrior glyphs.
[...]
On the other hand GLYPHING it is bad, and i you cant see WHY, well then i suggest you spend another couple months studying theorycrafting.

Sorry for beeing condescendant, i didnt mean to hurt your feelings... But if i tell you i'm currently progressing in ICC 25 hardmode 9/12 while you are 4/12 10 normal mode, don't you think -maybe- i know what i'm talking about ? Just trying to help here. Feel free to do as you want. Just sharing the way things are done endgame.

You seem incredibly arrogant and it's hard to have a discussion with you, as you seem quick to try and offend me. My experience tells me that burst threat is more important than threat over time. My TPS is more than good enough even with my current gear. I don't need more threat over time, however I wouldn't mind more burst threat, which is why I glyph as I do.

I find it odd that these tanks also seem to fail at endgame, according to your ingenious "compendium"
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...th&gn=Eventide
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...n=Drae&gn=Omen
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...n=Zo&gn=Exodus

By all means, do what works for you, if you feel your TPS isn't good enough, glyph for vigilance. I offered my OPINION which was based on my experience, but apparently my opinion is enough to justify ridicule by pro tanks such as yourself, because I don't obey the "compendium".

[Alianthos]

I find it odd that these tanks also seem to fail at endgame, according to your ingenious "compendium"
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...th&gn=Eventide
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...n=Drae&gn=Omen
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...n=Zo&gn=Exodus

The first one has a spec with glyph or Mortal Strike in a Prot template.. Nuff said ? But he seems to like the glyph of barbaric insults, i give you that.
The second one, yeah, he's doing it right. Good glyphs. Why did you linked him ? Cause he kinda go in my direction.
The third one is obviously speccing for the Lich King 25HM, with glyph or cleaving for offtanking, as well as piercing howl for the Valkyrs. Like I said, some glyphs off the list can be usefull for special encounters or trash tanking.

So, thanks i guess ? For helping me proving my point.

But I think i'm just stop gonna post here, obviously this is getting us nowhere. Good luck in you tanking adventures.

[Elica]

It's funny you chose to refer to Sarvoths unused prot spec, rather than look at his main spec which includes both babaric insults and mocking blow glyphs. All 3 are using glyph of mocking blow in their prot spec. Third one is using sunder armor glyph, which automatically disqualifies him from endgame according to you (not that I like that glyph personally). I'd hardly call that proving your point.

Your opinion (yes its an opinion) is that there's only 1 way to glyph, and I disagree. Let's end it at that.

[Deleted]

1) read stickies
2) google
...

all your 625 comments were so helpful?

[JustintimeSS]

That doesnt make any sense... Taunt does NOTHING if the target is already attacking you. Why would you do that, seriously ?

Sadly for you, youre wrong. It adds a debuff to the target forcing it to focus on me for the debuff duration, making it impossible to peel off by threat unless taunted by another. It is an old tactic used since the dawn of tanking times, to switch targets and ignore an original target leaving it to die without having to be tanked. And, low and behold, it works for initial pulls on a boss, forcing him to stick to you until you have a threat lead (which you should, in the duration of the debuff) making it impossible for a dps to nuke and pull off the bat, even if your Shield Slam is parried or it misses.

If youre not using Taunt on your pull, right as you get to the boss, then you are fucking yourself over. Is it needed? Not really, but its better safe than sorry. All this other shit about macros using 45 skills before you pull, is fucking over doing it.

Just charge and hit taunt then do your priority rotation. GG.

[Chozobo]

Sorry for beeing condescendant, i didnt mean to hurt your feelings... But if i tell you i'm currently progressing in ICC 25 hardmode 9/12 while you are 4/12 10 normal mode, don't you think -maybe- i know what i'm talking about ? Just trying to help here. Feel free to do as you want. Just sharing the way things are done endgame.

You're not even at H LK25. All that you say is automatically null and void.

Edit: I just checked your armory and laughed at your spec. 2/5 Shield Specialization? Seriously? And you decided to put those points into Focused Enrage? How do you even have rage generation problems while tanking heroic mode? Glyph of blocking, really? It was useful back in ulduar/toc with the gear that had a ton of block value, but you're in full ICC gear, where's all that block value now? Scales terribly in ICC gear. And to top it off you gem for agility, that is extremely funny. It's been proven that straight gemming for def rating or dodge +stam gems is superior than gemming for agility for survivability.

Oh yeah you also have Tuskarr's Vitality enchant. I also lol'd at that. Too hard for you to move out of sindra's blistering cold? Too slow to find a place to put defile on? Charge/intercept/intervene isn't enough for ya?

Might want to take a look at yourself before you start making opinions against others and look like a fool.

[Alianthos]

You're not even at H LK25. All that you say is automatically null and void.

Edit: I just checked your armory and laughed at your spec. 2/5 Shield Specialization? Seriously? And you decided to put those points into Focused Enrage? How do you even have rage generation problems while tanking heroic mode? Glyph of blocking, really? It was useful back in ulduar/toc with the gear that had a ton of block value, but you're in full ICC gear, where's all that block value now? Scales terribly in ICC gear. And to top it off you gem for agility, that is extremely funny. It's been proven that straight gemming for def rating or dodge +stam gems is superior than gemming for agility for survivability.

Oh yeah you also have Tuskarr's Vitality enchant. I also lol'd at that. Too hard for you to move out of sindra's blistering cold? Too slow to find a place to put defile on? Charge/intercept/intervene isn't enough for ya?

Might want to take a look at yourself before you start making opinions against others and look like a fool.

LOL.

Not gonna comment about the spec. 2/5 shield spec is fine, because blocking shit is weak. About the glyph of shield block, i already did made my point.

About gemming Agility, well, you have no clue, sorry. Agility has been PROVEN to be better than dodge for red slots, because agility max out your EH better than dodge does. If you dont believe this, well then you should give Kungen a call (first tank i have in mind, but many others do it this way too. Including me). Gemming agility is good, get on with it.

Tuskarr's vitality... Well, 8% extra speed beats 7 stamina. Actually, Tuskarr's vitality and Cat's swftness are considered the best enchants for boots for dps or tanks out here.

Thanks for your input anyway.

[Deleted]

Tbh, don't underestimate blocked attacks, and you'd probably get more rage from 5/5 shield spec than what you get from 3/3 focused rage anyway.

Tuskarr's is great, though. For instance, during lk, when moving raging spirits across the platform in p3. If your dpsers have the +8% and don't pay attention, there's a risk they'd run through the mob and into a sonic wave.

This thread has been derailed, lol.

[SilkforCalde]

Did someone just insult a tank for using Tuskarr's? If you don't, you are doing it wrong. Seriously. End of story. For prot warriors, Tuskarr's is mandatory. Always, always, always.

[JustintimeSS]

Did someone just insult a tank for using Tuskarr's? If you don't, you are doing it wrong. Seriously. End of story. For prot warriors, Tuskarr's is mandatory. Always, always, always.

This someone is the same person to say "If you dont glyph the way I do youre wrong" and also didnt understand how taunt works. I dont think anything he has wrote is worth a shit tbh.

[Chozobo]

Did someone just insult a tank for using Tuskarr's? If you don't, you are doing it wrong. Seriously. End of story. For prot warriors, Tuskarr's is mandatory. Always, always, always.

No, you're doing it wrong. Tell me one good reason why it would be mandatory.