Do you want Dungeon Sets in Cata?

[Ricen]

Only if they make it so, Gear is extremely harder to get like in Old wow, and it kinda gets you ready to raid, i would love it. But if it is just a gear feeder then no.

[Bokchoii]

Gear doesn't last long enough nowadays for that to be a good idea.

I would like some sort of -decent- set of gear that non-raiders could get, and every tier of gear they can add a way to upgrade it. Maybe not to the current level, but a tier before.

[Syatek]

I think it would be awesome as a like lvl 81-85 set and good enough to start raiding.
The ICC geared ppl prolly wouldnt need it but itd be cool for alts

[Malectrius]

By the way, I don't know what TBC you played, but in the one I played, to get epics was as easy as now.

i guess it depends on what part of TBC people remember. When i first started raiding in TBC the only epic gear you could get outside of raids were badge stuff, which was kara entry level gear, and the random item from the end boss in a hc (which was also below karazhan level). Not to mention that doing hc's back then in pre kara gear was more unforgiving than i remember the WotLK hc's ever having been in pre nax gear (i did the hc's 1 week in WotLK in 70 epics and 80 greens, and yes i was very dissappointed).

It was only later when they slowly nerfed the hc's more and more and allowed t5 and eventually t6 quality gear being bought by badges (which, all added together, culminated when the SWP was introduced), that it started to be as easy as it is now.

I'll wager that in 1 or 2 pages this will turn into a WotLK vs TBC thread

[Malckeor]

yes, but only if they look as awesome as the ones from pre BC.

[Alteka]

I say go take the tier system that was used in ulduar and naxxramas and re-use it. I prefer tier tokens to drop off bosses

[Arck908]

The only difference between an epic and an uncommon item is that one is purple and the other is green, it's only a color.

I think you forgot about the massive stat differences.

[Seasonedbeef]

Now imagine this poor fresh lvl 80, in a world where everyone is in ilvl 245~264 gear. How will he ever do ICC if there is nobody to do Naxxramas, Ulduar and ToC with him?

I'd imagine they would do the same thing that every other raider in TBC did, find a guild that is in the same tier of progression they were and help clear and gear up. The difference from then and now is, guilds actually had to progress through the tiers of content, instead of just farming heroics for the same gear. Because of this, you had many different guilds, in many different stages of progression.

[snowblind]

Just as an aside, when WotLK first started, getting epics through emblems from heroics wasn't as fast as people apparently think it was.

The LFD tool is what made it so fast. It's not going away, so I suspect it will be somewhat similar in Cataclysm.

As for dungeon sets... nah. No need.

[Cyph3r]

Gear doesn't last long enough nowadays for that to be a good idea.

I would like some sort of -decent- set of gear that non-raiders could get, and every tier of gear they can add a way to upgrade it. Maybe not to the current level, but a tier before.

Yes, but keep in mind that gear doesn't last long nowadays because you're running however many heroics a day for emblems, plus running the current top end raid twice a week for gear/emblems...

Well gearing via raids is going to slow WAY down with 10 and 25 sharing a lockout. It means more work to acquire the max amount of emblems (valor points) you can per week, and it means less opportunities to get gear via drops, because you'll be killing half as many raid bosses per week.

Gearing slower means that that first set of gear we get via heroics to make us raid ready will last longer.

Now, that being said, I'm not sure I'd want the return of full on dungeon sets, at least in their original form. I can see a token system maybe, and of course smaller sets (5 pieces seems to be the standard these days). One thing I WOULD like to see is no epics in dungeons. Seems to me there's no reason they couldn't save the first epics until raids, I know they like to reward people, but if they plan for it early then there wouldn't be an itemization problem. If this were the case it would actually lend itself to a pre-raid set, as the set bonuses would help put you were you need to be for raiding. I dunno, just a thought. I really liked the original dungeon sets, but I'm not sure they have a place in the modern game.

[De1337]

I would like to see the "Dungeon Sets" be the gear purchased with Hero points. I think it would also be nice if these were blue, there is no need for everyone to have purple gear. If everyone has it then it de-values the gear.

I don't really know how they would accomplish this though as the next tier of content would push the previous tier into hero points.

Ah well nice thought though

[kayoticwrath]

I liked having to do the dungeons to get the stuff to go into a raid but I hated having to do the same place all the time for something that never dropped. They could put a badge system in place for heroics like they have now so it would be very much the same only you would just get the set you wanted to be able to start raiding with. Not be able to get your badges and within a week of hitting 80 your'e in ICC.

[feroid]

The only difference between an epic and an uncommon item is that one is purple and the other is green, it's only a color.

The only difference between Vanilla and WotLK is the name.

The only difference between a hunter and a warrior is the color of the class name.

The only difference between an epic and an uncommon is the color? Have you ever looked at the stats on the item, or do you just pick up whichever looks prettier?

[Durandro]

It would be nice if you spent the entry level tokens (i.e. the current Stone Keeper Shards) on blue 'tier' gear. But having items drop from dungeons that are limited by class? Not convinced, since so much of it was wasted!

Thus when you hit 85, you can buy a decent blue gear set with the tokens you got while leveling up in dungeons, that you then work on upgrading.

Would be nice if it linked with T11 items as well, so they have a shared set bonus. Thus getting T11 items wouldn't remove your set bonus, and it feels like real gear progression rather then a teeth nashing affair where you don't want to equip an upgrade because it removes a useful bonus!

Infact, would be nice if T11 was actually a literally upgrade that required the blue item to 'craft' into the tier item.

[Thomasdwell]

I wouldn't mind dungeon sets if they were gained similar to how you went from dungeon set 1 to 2. Quest make it feel less grinding which some people can get fatigued from, (especially if you've kicked over RNG's sand castle in a previous life and its getting back at you by insuring that the loot you want for your main only drops when you're on an alt. >) and not so dependent on luck or 'better' digital dice.

[Darkskeleton]

Yes because I prefer the vanilla and burning crusade style of progression where if you can't do one level of content you don't get to do the next. Blues should have a purpose in the game other then the first 2 weeks of Cataclysm, people who just hit 85 or are terrible at the game should not be anywhere near the highest level of gear.

In other words you should have to work to be able to get into the entry level raid, and then once you beat the entry level raid enough times you can do the next tier. Only exception should be alts, maybe raid level heirloom gear that is only available to those who have beaten a tier of content. (I.E. iLevel 200 epic heirlooms for those who finished naxx 10)

And I know that something like this probably won't happen again in wow, which may or may not contribute to whether or not I decide to come back.

Bottom line, lv80 dungeons and heroics should be challenging, have gear that you need to get into raiding no matter what point in the expansion it is and never be daily badge reduced to something as dull as daily badge runs.

[Stormwolf64]

I would simply like the Burning Crusade system. You get blue sets and if you're lucky a epic from the last boss. AND epics from heroics should have a little higher itemlevel rather than the same as blues.

[FatMF]

Would be great if these pieces were dropped by, let's say, last bosses of 5man HCs, having starting epic quality, so some people would actually use them. So essentially, the same as now, but looking the same and having some set bonuses.

[larvoss15]

I WANT EPICS TO BE SO FREAKING HARD TO GET that the first 2 bosses in ever raid should only drop 1 or 2 epics and the rest blues or mats for epics....

[Redbulloth]

YES to dungeon sets. I admit, as a druid, mine would be tough (maybe 3 bonuses for each piece, or a caster version and a dps version--in BC we used the shared one for ferals), but I loved that you had pieces you could target pre-raiding. I made guides for guildies on how to gear up their ferals, and we had a great time going for it.

Now to answer some others:

The dungeon -> heroic -> raid progression felt a little better at the beginning of wrath, and got a little out of hand towards the end( so atm, and until Cataclysm).

I sprinted to 80 with everyone else, and I did a total of about 3 non-heroic dungeons after hitting 80 (not counting running lower players through much later), and these were to round out my dungeon achievements, not because I couldn't run the heroics in my level 70 epics and 80 greens (I think I had a total of 2 blues from level 75+). Heroics were nothing even at the start of Wrath. They should at least require completion of a quest chain in dungeons, if not outright rep-keying, before heroics again, but at least they seem committed to making them harder.

Let's analyze your phrase, shall we? Yes, you can get epix with badges, but that's a good thing. How many people in your server do full clears of Naxxramas? How many people did it even back at Ulduar, when epics were harder to get? Now imagine this poor fresh lvl 80, in a world where everyone is in ilvl 245~264 gear. How will he ever do ICC if there is nobody to do Naxxramas, Ulduar and ToC with him? He would stay in blues forever. Plus, epics are overrated. The only difference between an epic and an uncommon item is that one is purple and the other is green, it's only a color. How many people you see in full ilvl 277? How many people has at least one ilvl 284 item? So I guess to get gear is not so easy after all.

By the way, I don't know what TBC you played, but in the one I played, to get epics was as easy as now.

Getting epics was actually quite a bit more difficult in TBC...heroics required rep for keying. You had to get some experience working up, which meant that every level 80 didn't have a piece of tier, which was supposed to mark that you were good enough to raid.

If Blizz didn't blitz players in Wrath so much with MOAR EPIX ZOMG, people would run the lower stuff. "I don't know what TBC you played, but" in mine, people still ran heroics, Kara, ZA, etc. to gear up alts and newer members. The week after my guild first downed Vashj, guess what? We ran Kara, Gruul, and Mag's Lair, because we still needed to gear up people. Now, you get the gear and THEN you can be considered. At least in BC, the player had a chance to get in on personality, and people saw more than a gearscore.

no, the system in tBC was actually pretty much fail, because blue items from even nonheroics were better than epics from Kara (example I never forgot were blue caster druid shoulders over epic ones from Curator...) and they had to boost epics to be actually worthy upgrades over 5man content. Not to mention lot of epics from heroics and trainable crafts (Hello tailor sets) were much better (even with way lower ilevel) than t5/t6 content items. I clearly remember having pants from H Underbog untill SWP isle went live, because there was no upgrade and all three tier legs sucked, itemization was terribly flawed...

I prefer the current/Cata system over tBC fail non-system any day of the week, thanks.

I agree it caused headaches, but I liked that aspect of it (it was more exaggerated for me because, as a feral, I had about 3 drops in each tier of raids besides the tier pieces that I wanted). It made it so that you had to gear SMART instead of gear up. I loved that 15 minutes after someone laughed at me for wearing a green (the Manimal's Cinch, a belt), I was out-DPSing him easily in his full (dumb) epics. It favored exactly the group of people that makes WoW better than other MMOs: the smart ones who care

I say go take the tier system that was used in ulduar and naxxramas and re-use it. I prefer tier tokens to drop off bosses

Agreed. Tier drops need to mean something. I hate how I have tier pieces that didn't require me to kill a single hard boss. I could have simply farmed them off heroics. It made them mean something to you if they dropped off bosses. Plus, it's inspired a wave of tier-set clones, which isn't all that great when your tier set is disgustingly bad-looking (Druid T10 face = !?!?). I still remember how I felt when I got my T4 gloves, how happy I was that curator was nice to me and the rolls were even nicer. I remember hearthing back to gem and enchant my T4 shoulders when I got them because I was so excited (and the guild wanted a breather). I especially remember my excitement that my first Archimonde kill dropped MY T6 helm, and blowing all my DKP on it...still worth it.