Trinket Question: Herkuml War Token vs. Needle-Encrusted Scorpion

[m1ckeyc]

I'm a 5.7 GS combat rogue, with a bunch of 251 and 264 ICC gear (including 4-pc T10), but i'm still holding on to that Needle-Encrusted Scorpion trinket. I could ditch in and buy Herkuml War Token, but i have a hard time giving up that ArmPen boost.

With my gear and gems, i'm at the ArmPen soft-cap, so i get to 100% ArmPen when it procs. And, i have great hit and expertise, so i'm only giving up potential AP or Haste with my investment in ArmPen.

I'm optimizing for ICC raiding, we're at the Lich King right now in 10-Normal (so 11/12th through icc).

My other trinket is Deathbringer's Will.

Should i stay with Needle-Encrusted Scorpion? Or, get rid of it and go to Herkuml? If I go with Herkuml, do i ditch all my gem'd and geared ArmPen all at once and just go for AP and haste?

Confused.

[Abolishment]

The gearscore on the Token is much, much better.

[GuildGold]

The gearscore on the Token is much, much better.

This.

Stats dont matters

Its all about the GearScore 8)

[lobbe]

go for gems and get the token, or wait a few week to go for the new arp tinky

[batman30]

Id go HWT because its just tht much better than the needle, and no i wouldnt change gemming either, id get Arp offset pieces and keep the 2pc t10, u cud invest in the crafted pants, keep the helm/chest or helm/shoulders, and also an armory link would be nice to further help with options

[Carlash]

mate, Im going to advice u what some1 adviced me and it worked out pretty well.

keep DBW and get the token and regem to attack power or ap+haste instead of arp.

this would be probabbly be much better for you because you cant reach the arp hard cap if your guild is not doing hardmodes.

Another way is, use the helm/chest of the tier 10 set and get offpieces with arp on em like the guy above me said

GL!

[Voij]

A=Haste-EP
B=Crit-EP
C=ArP-EP

Herkuml:
153*A + 340

NES:
114*B + 678*C*1/5 [1/5 as uptime]

Now to use some sample values in favor of NES: [Crit and ArP are worth more now than they should be for you]
HWT=153*1.9 + 340=630.7
NES=114*1.9 + 678*2.4/5=542.04

So yeah, HWT is better.

[Yakusai]

http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t39136-c...updated_3_3_a/

Use it. Love it. Thank me later.

[m1ckeyc]

OK, I finally got off my duff and spent some time using and understanding the spreadsheet. Thanks for the kick in the pants to go and do this.

Yes, everything does point me to pick up HWT over NES.

One odd result, however, is that the spreadsheet still suggests i use all my available gem slots (I have 9 that i can use for whatever i want) as ArmPen, instead of AP, which seems to be contrary to the advice i've heard on this thread and in other forums. Basically, i always thought you should go all-out on ArmPen if you have a trinket proc that will get you to the hardcap (like NES does), or if not, forget about it, don't gem for it, gem for AP.

I basically have the choice of adding 360 additional AP (9 * 40 from Bright Cardinal Ruby), or 180 additional ArmPen (9*20 from Fractured Cardinal Ruby). If I go all ArmPen, i'll have a ArmPen of about 712.

I haven't done all the math, but the tables in http://www.wowwiki.com/Armor_penetration suggest about an 8% dps increase if i pick up the 180 ArmPen and roll with 712 (with no trinket proc ever). figuring out the increase to my dps for AP is harder and haven't figured it all out yet, but it seems like 360 added to my base 4263 AP is a 5% dps increase to just my white damage alone, not even calculating yellow attacks yet.

Should i follow the spreadsheet blindly, or do you think it's ArmPen recommendation for my gems is bogus and conventional wisdom is more correct?

[ymirsson]

if ArP nets you more DPS increase per point then AP(according to the calculations it does), the spreadsheet will suggest gemming that.
but even if the EP of ArP might be higher, there can be setups where your overall DPS shown in the spreadsheet will be higher.
last but not least: ArP gemming if you reach the cap with a trinket proc ( or alternatively when you can reach 800/1200/whatever number used) is a fast and flawed advice.
nothing beats calculating it yourself(with the help of a program/spreadsheet)

[Voij]

Just to clarify: reaching ArP-cap with a proc is called Soft-capping.
Hard-capping is if you reach the ArP-cap at all times. (ArP-Food counts as hardcapping)

[Annoying]

http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t39136-c...updated_3_3_a/

Use it. Love it. Thank me later.

Also, I'd pick up the HWT. Even if it doesn't spreadsheet out higher (which it should), it's pretty much unreplacable short of Heroic 25 gear.