Fire Crit vs. Haste

[Mathin]

I've been reading a lot about the totw/fire spec and whether or not crit or haste is better. They all seem to say one is better if you have a lot of the other, but where are those lines drawn?

Any general advice would be helpful. However, here is a link to my toon if anyone wants to give pointed advice.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ight&cn=Mathin

Again, I gemmed for arcane and now I need help switching.

[sammiam]

Download rawr. It has a graph that will show you how each stat changes in relation to the others.




*Disclaimer* Rawr is a useful tool, but is not absolutely correct in the predictions it makes.

[Joe Christ]

The problem with crit versus haste is that it's very difficult to compare the two stats to each other. Haste provides a measurable DPS boost by improving cast speed, while crit provides a theoretical DPS boost by favorably influencing RNG.

The numbers you see comparing crit to haste are from a DPS-in-a-vacuum scenario where crit rate equals crit chance, but unfortunately you always need to take those figures with a grain of salt. Honestly, I don't like thinking about this too much because it leaves me feeling like I'm never making the right decision when I gem my gear.

[Tassir]

The problem with crit versus haste is that it's very difficult to compare the two stats to each other. Haste provides a measurable DPS boost by improving cast speed, while crit provides a theoretical DPS boost by favorably influencing RNG.

The numbers you see comparing crit to haste are from a DPS-in-a-vacuum scenario where crit rate equals crit chance, but unfortunately you always need to take those figures with a grain of salt. Honestly, I don't like thinking about this too much because it leaves me feeling like I'm never making the right decision when I gem my gear.

In the more practical realm, hes saying theres a value at which additional haste becomes less favourful (this is in addition to DR).

Use Magegraf to determine that variable (because I don't know the calculataions off the top of my head) and gem accordingly.

[histuguya]

Im not going to claim to be an expert but i raided fire in bc and through most of wotlk except when for when u saw a fire mage and just lol'd cause a new 80 paly with no gear could out dps it. I've found that stacking crit is more favorable because it keeps ignite up and insta pyro is always good. My logic is with around 55% crit buffed, you can go into a fight can just lb,fb,fb,pyro,fb,pyro,fb, pyro and so on. With haste u could cast 2 fire balls within the time that it will take a mage stacking crit to cast one, but the mage with crit will get more ignite ticks and a pyro, which should be stronger than fb.

[Anobix]

Use rawr and have the correct buffs/gems selected. Sometimes Rawr has you gem for both depending on the situation to get you over certain 'landmarks' of cast time to make one better than the other.

[Skarrd]

My logic is with around 55% crit buffed, you can go into a fight can just lb,fb,fb,pyro,fb,pyro,fb, pyro and so on.

Your logic is illogical, because that rotation isn't possible.

[sidphoenix]

I believe the answer you want is that asuming 2 PC t10, you want over 700 BARE MINIMUM, and preferably over 800 haste. This is because if you use pyro, then drop 2 fireballs, you should still be under 5 seconds meaning that with full raid buffs and not horrible latency, you can see the next cast still benefit from the haste 12% of the Pushing the Limit Buff. also, haste scales great up to that level, and poorly after it, because your instants(LB, Pyro, and 1.5sec scorch if required) have all hit the 1second minimum. Best tool in the world is

http://milamber.ch/spellhastecap.html

as it will let you put in the raid buffs you have, and what procs you see, to find out what levels of haste GCD cap you for your raid comp, and what levels of haste get your spell casts down to the level that they net you special bonuses, like the 3rd fireball being hasted for a minor dps increase.

[Tassir]

Your logic is illogical, because that rotation isn't possible.

I got you covered bro.



shamelessly stolen from Mr. Voletronn. Gawd your remixxes are awesome.

[Spiks]

well here is my 5 cents i been swaping between fire/arcane under woltk alot and i learned that haste is alot more favorouble then crit for the pure fact that you dont get to stand in place and make every crit count you need to count in the movment in fights here is where haste wins its better to get off more casts then get a few crits and with standard icc gear and smart gearing you will be well over 50% unbuffed with firespec so that isnt really a problem for high end raiding

[Makaeith]

My mage is sitting @ 1120ish Haste, just from gear without gemming, so ive found gemming Spirit is much better, you have around the same ammount as crit as i do, in raids with all debuffs on bosses ect ect you should be @ like 60% crit on a boss target (If your puttin up scorch or you have an affliction / demo lock ) which is plenty of crit, my advice to you would be look for more haste

[Skarrd]

so ive found gemming Spirit is much better

no.

[Faelun]

Crit is funny in that yes, technically crit IS better than haste in that it increases your POTENTIAL max dmg done/dps but due to the RNG factor it does not always work out that way. That being said, haste will provide a consistent and almost linear increase to your dmg done/dps. Ultimately you want a balance of both haste/crit but I would say, ideally you want to make sure that FULLY raid buffed (including debuffs) you have NO less than ~50-55% crit before loading up on the haste

[Harry Botter]

Crit is going to be better for you up to a certain point/personal preference. Currently my mage is sitting at 60.77% ish crit 25 man raid buffed give or take a % or 2 and almost 970 haste with BM, so now i have enough crit that i will worry about haste more now. So its really up to you and your playstyle but crit should provide a bigger dps increase till you have 55%+ crit raid buffed like people have said here.

[Swizzle]

well here is my 5 cents i been swaping between fire/arcane under woltk alot and i learned that haste is alot more favorouble then crit for the pure fact that you dont get to stand in place and make every crit count you need to count in the movment in fights here is where haste wins its better to get off more casts then get a few crits and with standard icc gear and smart gearing you will be well over 50% unbuffed with firespec so that isnt really a problem for high end raiding

the more crit you have, the higher the chance living bomb ticks will turn into crits, thus keeping ignite up longer leading to higher ticks.

haste provides very very very marginal benefit for movement in GCD reduction, but is outweighed by ignite up keep.

in a perfect world, crit~spellpower>haste for a fire mage.

[Inoxia]

Crit is funny in that yes, technically crit IS better than haste in that it increases your POTENTIAL max dmg done/dps but due to the RNG factor...

You can crit 100% of the time with 1% crit, or 100% of the time with 75% crit. It's RNG, yes, but what you said is untrue because your 'potential max dmg done/dps' is not affected in either situation by adding/subtracting crit.

OP, if you want a simple answer, here it is: Once you have 900 haste (where crit starts to become better than haste stat-for-stat), start gemming for 12sp/10crit. You do want 50-55% crit self-buffed to be able to play fire and perform well.