Mut/prep 2v2 help

[yazz]

Hey guys. Im kinda new to rogues in arenas. I just started a few weeks ago with a frost mage. My current spec and glyphs are http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...n=Hctz&group=2 . Ive been doing a lot of reading on different sites and posts here on mmo, and im seeing lots of conflicting information. First of all, should I only be using envenom as my finisher with the occasional rupture kite on plate, or should i spec into imp evis for clothies. Which poisons for which situations? Id appreciate any input especially examples of successful 2v2 specs and any strat links you guys know of that are current. (Im finding lots of info from 2009 and 2008 on sites). Thanks

[Jolle69]

(First time ever I try to help a rogue instead of flaming him as much as I can.)
What's your bg like? A lot of big bad mean warriors trying to roflstomp you with druids? A lot of nice loving warlocks fearing the shit out of you? Your spec should debend on those things.

Envenom is overall better, but these days you might be interested in trying subi (Deep) as it has interesting opening burst but as my rogue is only 78, I'm unsure of how deeply resi kills it.

[yazz]

Thanks. anyone else have some input plz?

[Tarshish]

I've also done some research into the mut/prep builds. I have noticed if you look at 5 top rogues, you'll see 5 different specs. There are few "mandatory" talents in the spec. Obviously, you need the improved stealth, prep, and mutilate. Outside of those talents, there is a lot of personal preference. My rogue has daggers similar to yours, and I noticed my burst wasn't sufficient to really apply enough pressure. Of course, I run with a priest not a mage. I don't know what your combat pve gear is like, but you might want to switch to a combat spec until you get better daggers. My axes are from icc and I noticed a significant improvement in my damage.

Your spec looks fine. If it were me, I would take both points out of quick recovery (since you don't have a healer), 2 points out of lethality, and one point out of deadly brew. I'd then put 2 points into blood spatter and 3 points into imp kidney shot. Like I said, there's a lot of personal preference in this spec. For poisons, I always kept deadly on my fast dagger and wound on the other one. If you ever run with another class that has a mortal strike debuff, then you could switch to instant poison for a little more damage. As far as finishers go, if you have more than 3 stacks of deadly on the target, envenom is best. If you don't expect to kill it in the next 10 seconds or so, then rupture is a good choice. Make sure you always keep rupture up on other rogues. Make sure you always have your highest dps dagger in your main hand. For pve you need to have at least one 1.4 or 1.5 speed dagger, but I'm not sure it's that important in pvp.

[yazz]

Thanks for the info. I noticed my daggers were a prob too. I do have two 251 axes from icc 10 but i dont really like combat for pvp. As for getting better daggers, i currently use blood weeper (232) MH and kricks beetle stabber (219) OH. Should i get another blood weeper for my offhand even tho its 1.8, b/c i don't really raid too far into icc 10 on this char. The daggers off later bosses would be unattainable at this point.

[Phantazm]

using two heavy (1.8 or so) daggers is pretty viable currently, at least for BGs.

if using two heavy daggers, though, i've heard to and currently put wound on OH and Deadly on MH.

[K4ge]

It's dependant on your parnter. With a healer you'll spend a lot of time training one target => 1.8/1.4 with wound mh and deadly oh is king. with 2dps 1.8/1.8 with deadly mh and wound oh is better

[freddey]

It's dependant on your parnter. With a healer you'll spend a lot of time training one target => 1.8/1.4 with wound mh and deadly oh is king. with 2dps 1.8/1.8 with deadly mh and wound oh is better

Exactly what he said ^. Envenom on plate is gold. Evisc isn't specced or glyphed but it's useful if you have 0 deadly stacks or a situation like a DK's Anti Magic Shield. I play my rogue @ 2.3k 3v3 rating atm and I'm going for glad this season. I play Mutilate primarily and in 3's, but in 5's I play Subtelty and 2's I boost - so just ask away if you need any help mate,

Fredz.

[Togepii]

Exactly what he said ^. Envenom on plate is gold. Evisc isn't specced or glyphed but it's useful if you have 0 deadly stacks or a situation like a DK's Anti Magic Shield. I play my rogue @ 2.3k 3v3 rating atm and I'm going for glad this season. I play Mutilate primarily and in 3's, but in 5's I play Subtelty and 2's I boost - so just ask away if you need any help mate,

Fredz.

No.

even though evis isn't glyphed, imp evis is a bread and butter talent. No reason why not to take it.

Also, glad this season is inflated to 2.6k, long way to go brah.

[K4ge]

there is one situation in which you don't spec imp evis: playing rls. You spend so much time sticking to one target with the insane pressure from rogue/affliction that you really don't need it.

[Jubite]

subi (Deep) as ... resi kills it.

Although we can debate all day, and link reckful videos, sub is the minority in the arena. And I would suggest that a new pvper stick with mut/prep since there is a lot less stuff to watch. Poisons you want wound/deadly, deadly on the faster weapon. If you run 1.8/1.8 its a toss up, as some people like to shiv wound+cripple and others like to shiv to keep stacks up.

Many take the evis points instead of lethality because lethality only really effects your mutilates, which already hit like a wet noodle against plate.

You usually wanna use envenom against anything that isnt a clothy or a rogue, UNLESS you have 5deadly on the target. Thats a big factor as clothies tend to kite so they fall off, and in that case evis is a viable alternative (lol xept priest)

Umm anything else.....
O use rupture on rogues and its better to envenom than rupture on plate....
and....
thats all i can think of. gl hf

[Separate]

No.

even though evis isn't glyphed, imp evis is a bread and butter talent. No reason why not to take it.

Also, glad this season is inflated to 2.6k, long way to go brah.

Umm wrong actually, there is no reason TO take it LOL. If you arent using envenom you are doing it wrong sorry brah.

[Unspecified]

No.

even though evis isn't glyphed, imp evis is a bread and butter talent. No reason why not to take it.

Also, glad this season is inflated to 2.6k, long way to go brah.

there is actually, much better talents. Imp kidney, deadened nervs etc.

[yazz]

Thanks for all the input guys. Im a little confused by this comment:

It's dependant on your parnter. With a healer you'll spend a lot of time training one target => 1.8/1.4 with wound mh and deadly oh is king. with 2dps 1.8/1.8 with deadly mh and wound oh is better

Are you saying if Im going against a healer use 1.8/1.4 and then use 1.8/1.8 against double dps teams? Or are you referring to if my partner is a healer or dps?

[Togepii]

A 3pt evis on a mage hits harder than a 5pt 3 stack envenom. Lethality is useless, and at a certain gear level, so is deadened nerves.

And whosoever takes imp kidney is just plain retarded. In 3s, almost everyone will trinket the kidney against a RLS or RLSpriest, or many of the rogue variants. (Probs not rpfrostm, but possibly rparcanem)

The fact is, at high level play, there WILL be peels, and you'll NEED to korean swap in order to win (I'm talking mainly about rogue/caster/healer comps here), and imp evis is the lifeblood to swaps.

[jutsfortehlulz]

Thanks for all the input guys. Im a little confused by this comment:
Are you saying if Im going against a healer use 1.8/1.4 and then use 1.8/1.8 against double dps teams? Or are you referring to if my partner is a healer or dps?

He's referring to your partner

[Neurus]

He's referring to your partner

Don’t take imp kidney. I’ve never seen a rogue take that. Although deep sub is less common, if you get used to that, it’s WAY more fun than mut. WAY more. I’ve played probably most of the variants before/during/after nerfs and by far, Subt is the most interesting and offers more gameplay alternatives.

Mut is powerful vs. plate, if you manage to apply the poisons. Mut is very limited in mobility. No healer == you’re made of paper.

Sub gives you more escape mechanisms and is not that bad in order to switch targets. Which is what you should be ready to do (just in case) if you can’t kill in the first round of CDs. WIth MUT, switching targets its a “omg, i have to start over and don’t even have energy or combo points”.

Try all. Find what you like. Never take Ghostly Strike.