I would like Prot to get a talent to increase Divine Plea effects

[steale]

If pvp Prot Paladins (try that one 5x fast) get buffed to be MORE overpowered than they currently are before Rogues get any kind of survivability buff, I'm going on a murderous nerdrage and destroying everything in my path that's smaller than me and easily destroyed. True story.

[DaGhostDS]

But you get more CC, more healing, more damage, more utility,

basically more support, which tanks is suppose to get.

more damage then a dps spec? there is something wrong

[Elessa]

But you get more CC, more healing, more damage, more utility,

basically more support, which tanks is suppose to get.

Then why are you complaining?
What you are saying is that ret does more dmg, more cc, more healing, is easier on mana and better support. And still you spec prot and complain?
Just spec ret and be happy.

[boseguy22]

Lol, I play a prot paly myself, and the hardest change is going from the PVE to PVP mindset. A decently geared prot paly running heroics, can take all the incoming damage (tanks job), and frequently also take top DPS, and put solid numbers on the healing meter from JoL.

STOP!!! thinking like PVE. Prot palys in pvp are a SUPPORT class plain and simple. You suck up damage, a lot of it mind you, and (read posts above) you provide an incredible amount of utility to prevent your opponents from owning your team.

Prot=Protection. In a pve setting mobs have aggro tables, you keep their aggro and job done. In Pvp, that damn shadow priest on your team might be your opponents target, and you cant just taunt a player, so use your toolbox to protect that shadow priest so he/she can keep being OP. Protection is your job. It might not be as fun as pve, but it is just as important.

[Talen]

would be nice if we could get a talent in prot to increase the mana returned from Divine Plea.

Actually, I wonder if mana regen for Prot could do with a bit of an overhaul.

I've always, for eample, been of the opinion that DP woudl work better as a CD type mana regen tool of the kind it was originally designed as.

If Prot needed more mana, there could be other solutions such as having SA work of damage done rather than healing received, upping the regen from BoSanc or looking at ways to make SoW more viable.

EJL

[Ronark]

If pvp Prot Paladins (try that one 5x fast) get buffed to be MORE overpowered than they currently are before Rogues get any kind of survivability buff, I'm going on a murderous nerdrage and destroying everything in my path that's smaller than me and easily destroyed. True story.

Wait, Rogues have survivability issues? You know you're in the Paladin forums, right?

Actually, I wonder if mana regen for Prot could do with a bit of an overhaul.

I've always, for eample, been of the opinion that DP woudl work better as a CD type mana regen tool of the kind it was originally designed as.

If Prot needed more mana, there could be other solutions such as having SA work of damage done rather than healing received, upping the regen from BoSanc or looking at ways to make SoW more viable.

Either through the LOLSA glyph, or make Divine Plea more like Shamanistic Rage.

[Elessa]

Either through the LOLSA glyph, or make Divine Plea more like Shamanistic Rage.

But that would destroy the spell for holy paladins

[Ronark]

But that would destroy the spell for holy paladins

Not if it was in addition to its current effect, i.e.

You gain 25% of your total mana over 15 sec, and your successful melee attacks a chance to regenerate mana equal to 25% of your attack power. The amount healed by your Flash of Light, Holy Light, and Holy Shock spells is also reduced by 50%.

I'd still be down for the whole "rework seals" option and make SoW like a mini-AotV.

[Copain]

We have a topic for this stuff.


That aside, it's fine in PVE, and in PVP Prot can do just fine, you just have to know how to use your spells properly. Just keep at it, it's a bit of trial and error.

And I don't really care which is more Defensive/Offensive or how OP one is compared to the other. I'm just stating that Prot can do fine and DP works fine.

[Deleted]

Sheeping through DP is the only way a mage can beat a protadin. I suppose it's the same with fearing for 'locks.

[Bloodcharged]

But if thats the case, shouldnt that rule of rules also apply to DK, Warriors, Druids?

They get constant resource

Um Prot Paladins are basically gods against melee, whereas prot warriors are the same however to casters due to all the stuns/interupts. Both Prot Warriors/Pallies aren't nearly as strong as they were last season.

[DaGhostDS]

Sheeping through DP is the only way a mage can beat a protadin. I suppose it's the same with fearing for 'locks.

or any other class, i start kitting when i see a prot popping his dp :P

[Mindark]

Sheeping through DP is the only way a mage can beat a protadin. I suppose it's the same with fearing for 'locks.

I dunno, a good lock destroys me in PVP.

On topic...which glyphs and talents are you using? In my PVP spec, I do just fine having 0/2 SA, 5/5 Benediction, and Glyph of ShoR. Just don't spam consecration! And you're healing in PVP? Use JoL. Mana issues? Swap to JoW while waiting for DP to come back up.

[Talen]

But that would destroy the spell for holy paladins

Blizzards likely going to be changing DP as its stands...they want mana management back in even for Holydins.

Paladins can probably expect talents such as Illumination to be changed (especially sicne its one of those boring but perhaps interesting talents) and even Benediction may be at risk. DP itself is a 25% mana return every minute. That may be too much for Blizzard.

25% once every 5 minutes may be more workable, and it would be easy for Ret and Prot to work around that and use alternate mana regen mechanics - although prot would likely want the glyph reworked. Holy will be getting Meditation, and will be keeping BoW. DP may vene be more interesting with a 5 min CD....its currently a button Paladins push every minute and Blizzrads changes to SS and other spells are soem indication those type of abilties are being looked at.

So, a reworking may alter the way in which Holy may use it, but would not necessarily destroy the spell for Holydins.

EJL

[Talen]

I'd still be down for the whole "rework seals" option and make SoW like a mini-AotV.

Reworking the Seals is an aspect of playing a Palaidn that seems to become more necessary the more I think about it.

Seriously....it strikes me that currently, theres really only a need for four Seals.

Currently, only SoJ is of dubious value. But, right now, I think SoR is perhaps a little too specialised. The current iteration of SoV even builds it into the Seal...yes, Blizzard wanted to stop Seal switching that badly.

SOV likewise has issues...ramp up time and so on.
SoL and SoW have limited appeal.
Holy doesn't get much benefit baseline.
Seals emphasise passive damage.

And so on. I think its now more likely a question of **how** Blizzard will revamp Seals than **if**.

We can guess whats likely.

Too much passive damage means that their damage will be decreased.
Removal of spells without a clear purpose, on top of the removal of RNG stuns, means SoJ will likely go.
SoV and SoR vie for the same spot as single target seal so one of those will likely go.
And as SoVs was changed to include a very clunky ramp up mechanism, that'd be a prime choice. You coudl also simplify the proc mechanism as well as ensure chaining doesn't happen unless wanted.
At the same time, Holy could do with some baseline benefit from Seals, Ret and prot should be seeing SoW and SoL as more useful and a limited amount of Seal switching could make for more interesting gameplay.

However, this would leave Paladins with only 4 viable Seals....single target, multi-target, restore health and restore mana. After that, you'd be into gimmick Seals.

EJL

[Sazbi]

This thread proves the mana limitation is working just fine. You're supposed to be balanced around not neccesarily going to press every single button that lights up on your bar all the time. You're not a rogue.

/thread