Plaguebringer Stained Pants vs Gunship Captains Mittens

[evensis]

I disagree with swizzle's fire bis list.

Mine comes out at: 19167.27 (including 30% buff)
Swizzle's: 19021.22 (including 30% buff)

Listing:

Santified Bloodmage Hood (chaotic skyflare + sp-spirit)
Amulet of Silent Eulogy (SP+Crit)
Sanctified Bloodmage Shoulderpads (SP+Hit)
Frostbinder's Shredded Cape (SP+Hit)
Sanctified Bloodmage Robe (Runed Card + SP-Spirit)
The Lady's Brittle Bracers (SP + Crit)
Gunship Captain's Mittens (SP-Spirit, Runed Card)
Crushing Coldwraith Belt (SP-Spirit, 2x runed card)
Sanctified Bloodmage Leggings (SP-spirit + sp-crit)
Plague Scientist's Boots (SP-Spirit + Runed Cardinal)
Ring of Rapid Ascent (SP-Spirit)
Ashen Band of Endless Destruction (SP-Crit)
Phlactory of the nameless lich
Dislodged Foreign Object
Bloodsurge(284) - Runed Card
Shadow Silk Spindle
Corpse Impaling Spike (SP-Crit)

Baring in mind this is for the Horde (no heroic presence, in which case dump the hit gems) and taking Misery/Imp Fairie Fire into account. Now this list does leave you short of 5 hit rating, either gem it or expect to miss every once in a blue moon.

Using t10 hc sanc hands results in a dps loss according to rawr. As does using plaguebringer's stained pants over t10 hc leg's.

I agree with gemming hit, but if for example i'm losing 60-70 haste/crit for 30 hit rating off a particular piece, i'd rather gem for hit as the haste/crit rating will vastly outweigh the additional unneeded hit.

60 or 70 haste/crit or a piece which totally negates the haste or crit and gives you 30 hit more than you need. At the end of the day, to get the absolute max from your gear in icc25hc, you need to gem for hit (2x 12SP + 10 hit with my bis list). No matter how i do it, it's a considerable dps loss using for example Valanar's other signet ring/Loop of the endless labyrinth (to get the additional hit needed) instead of using ring of rapid ascent. Lose 60 crit/haste or gem a couple of veiled ametrines and not lose any spellpower in the process (and gain 60 crit!). It's a no brainer!

It seems that at the highest points of gearing (full 277) for fire, haste starts overtaking crit again.

In conclusion, Gunship Captains Mittens! :P

[Deleted]

Spirit mage spotted

fixt.

oh, and crit is better after you can constantly get 2 casts of fireball off after your 2p t10 hasted HS proc. at that point, stacking crit gives you a greater chance for your optimal rotation: lb,fb,fb,pyro,fb,fb,pyro..... refreshing lb then pyro and overriding your haste proc is more beneficial then waiting it out.

With what gear I've been able to gather, i've got a good number of spiritgear rather cheaply, while they've been huge upgrades to my old gear. Saying spiritmage or gearscore mage might be right, but I've ran them through rawr with my old gear and they were dps upgrades, so why not. Not BiS stuff but still good nevertheless.

and spirit isn't that bad if you're abusing the t9 bonus :> too bad it's being taken away!

[Amnezia]

Well, 5/5 t10 is best in slot, but yeah the difference is small.

?? from what i know heroic Gunship Captains Mittens are BiS for a firemage

[Weazle83]

I went for the Captain's Mittens, because:

1) As alliance they bring me very close to the hitcap with my BiS list (only 3 hit rating over vs. 9 hit rating over with pants)
2) They were very easy to obtain (nobody even wanted 'em vs. a long queue on the pants)
3) You'll obtain an extra socket over using t10 legs or gloves which makes them marginally better, even for fire, to use instead of 5/5 t10.

[Hibbo]

Since you don`t list your Settings or a xml File it is completly useless to compare the DPS of BIS Lists.

You need to know Professions (Jewelcrafting - Enchanting), SP of the Demo Lock (4000), Focus Magic Rate (normally you change it to 0,373), Boss Fight Time (300), Inervate (no), Mana Tide (no), Power Infuision (No), Mana Gem (Yes), Mana Pot (Yes), Potion of Speed (Yes), Potion of Wild Magic (Yes) 2T10 Hasted Evo (Yes), AOE Targets (0), Cast Latency (0,01), GCD Latency (0,05).

In columns are the Settings we normally have used on EJ when we posted BIS Lists (including the xml File).
After that it is possible to compare the DPS but please stop posting differences of 100 dps when you can`t assure indentical Settings..........

[Heartfrost]

I've been doing a little digging to find out which would the better option to use an offpiece, with alot of high end mages now shifting towards Fire and my guild is at at level where I'm starting to gear accordingly- there has been mixed reception on which pieces to use overall, optimising a BiS for Fire has proven a little tricky when trying to avoid using hit gems to get that cap- with ruby sanctum around the corner and the potential pieces - thought i'd get your opinions on what would be the ideal choice.

Gunship Captain's Mittens
http://www.wowhead.com/item=50663

Plaguebringer Stained Pants
http://www.wowhead.com/item=50694

Go for the pants the only thing better then that is the heroic t 10 pants by an amazing 6 dps

[Heartfrost]

What about the BiS fire mage gearset?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/class-ma...-mage-pve-faq/

FIRE BIS (final):

this is only the bis set if your hord side if your alliance you use the wand off rot face thank you 1% hit buff

[evensis]

Since you don`t list your Settings or a xml File it is completly useless to compare the DPS of BIS Lists.

You need to know Professions (Jewelcrafting - Enchanting), SP of the Demo Lock (4000), Focus Magic Rate (normally you change it to 0,373), Boss Fight Time (300), Inervate (no), Mana Tide (no), Power Infuision (No), Mana Gem (Yes), Mana Pot (Yes), Potion of Speed (Yes), Potion of Wild Magic (Yes) 2T10 Hasted Evo (Yes), AOE Targets (0), Cast Latency (0,01), GCD Latency (0,05).

In columns are the Settings we normally have used on EJ when we posted BIS Lists (including the xml File).
After that it is possible to compare the DPS but please stop posting differences of 100 dps when you can`t assure indentical Settings..........

My settings are exactly as quoted, and by all intents and purposes fine for comparison. The only difference is assume Jewelcrafting and Tailoring. What EJ doesn't list is what race to assume for BIS, as the item sets change with the race's. In fact, BIS lists should be listed against the race and faction. Taking into account racial characteristics and faction dependant buffs (heroic presence for example). I daresay the disparity between the BIS listings on EJ is a direct result of different racials/faction/professions.

Assuming a troll finds in favour of 5/5 t10.75. But assuming a Blood elf (what i run), finds in favour of the listing I supplied. From what i can see, depending on your race, the bis item set will change. Swizzle's list is a great indicator of what you should be aiming for, but if you want a bis list for your own toon all I can say is run it through rawr using EJ's settings (mess with the latency to match your own) and mess around with different items till you get the highest dps listing.

The real key indicator from my experiments with rawr, is no listing of a BIS item set is correct for every race / profession set. The only way to compare a BIS list is against another one of the same race/faction and of the same professions as the results will be wholly different.

But staying on topic for a blood elf mage with jewelcrafting and tailoring, gunship captain's mitten's are best in slot.

Please see: http://rapidshare.com/files/396676272/BIS.xml.html for xml. Knocked off bloodlust in settings, as one thing I forgot to do. At any rate, the results remain the same.

[Swizzle]

i really should make that disclaimer on the front page, but i may as well just also state it now: mage BiS lists change depending on race and profession combinations.

as a general rule: if you have engineering, haste items will be devalued for you. if you do not have engineering, haste will be pushed up in priority.

the glove enchant is about 68 haste, so losing that enchant makes items with that amount or more haste overcome non-haste items.

[Hibbo]

I have not seen posting Swizzle any Race, Profession, Settings or even the RAWR Version. So I´m very carefull comparing DPS Numbers from BIS List`s.

But i´m fine with what you said it is only an Indicator and everyone should use RAWR to find out his own BIS List. Because it differs from Race to Race and Profession.
For Troll`s BIS is going to 5/5 T10 and for Blood Elf`s Gunship Captain Mitten`s are favored.

You have missed improving Mana Spring or BoW and also MotW in your Setup.
Conc Aura i think is very unusual that a Holy Pala is specced in (but not very relevant if you do not specify Pushback). And also as stated from you Heroism/Bloodlust.

Also selecting a pot and double pot Trick is not needed. Because when you did not select it, RAWR is choosing the best of this 2 Options for you.

But maybe this is how your Raid Setup looks like, so nothing relevant different from my Setup.

[Skarrd]

Take the one that comes first. I honestly never expect to have 5 heroic tier tokens and I doubt I'll even get four. Rejecting loot because it isn't bis is silly, especially when talking about tier pieces. Given that you get four tokens a week if you're killing LK, three if you aren't, and your entire raid needs them. I'm going to be getting the pants for 2 reasons. It's an upgrade, and I also want them in my pvp set 8)

[Swizzle]

four tokens if you aren't killing LK, 5 if you are.

anyway, i'm up to 3 pieces of 277 tier and i know of other more geared mages sitting in 4 piece now, so don't think you won't get it.

[Skarrd]

four tokens if you aren't killing LK, 5 if you are.

anyway, i'm up to 3 pieces of 277 tier and i know of other more geared mages sitting in 4 piece now, so don't think you won't get it.

It's just the way our guild's loot council system works. I sat for 3 weeks for finals / getting hacked. I'm being caught up on gear now, but I'm still sitting at zero tier pieces. Our mage who was there for those three weeks has one. We spread tier tokens evenly (as well as all gear, but tier tokens we actually bid with how many pieces we have), so I won't have 4pc until at least everybody else has 3pc, probably till most people have 4 given that I'm behind on the count now.

And yeah, I totally typed four and five first, then changed it down. I guess saurfang doesn't count in my brain.

[Swizzle]

we do the same thing with tier tokens. the thing is...we get 3 vanq a week on heroic, so almost everyone on vanq is at 3 piece 277. hooray for loot RNG. this is also why we have yet to see a single bloodsurge drop or any good caster loot. fuckin tit wiggle.

[Odina]

we do the same thing with tier tokens. the thing is...we get 3 vanq a week on heroic, so almost everyone on vanq is at 3 piece 277. hooray for loot RNG. this is also why we have yet to see a single bloodsurge drop or any good caster loot. fuckin tit wiggle.

I got the reverse problem FFS! Plenty of nice caster loot but very limited Vanq drops

I guess you can't win em all Then again looking at some mages on the armory you can >

[Orumis]

I disagree with swizzle's fire bis list.

Mine comes out at: 19167.27 (including 30% buff)
Swizzle's: 19021.22 (including 30% buff)

Listing:

Santified Bloodmage Hood (chaotic skyflare + sp-spirit)
Amulet of Silent Eulogy (SP+Crit)
Sanctified Bloodmage Shoulderpads (SP+Hit)
Frostbinder's Shredded Cape (SP+Hit)
Sanctified Bloodmage Robe (Runed Card + SP-Spirit)
The Lady's Brittle Bracers (SP + Crit)
Gunship Captain's Mittens (SP-Spirit, Runed Card)
Crushing Coldwraith Belt (SP-Spirit, 2x runed card)
Sanctified Bloodmage Leggings (SP-spirit + sp-crit)
Plague Scientist's Boots (SP-Spirit + Runed Cardinal)
Ring of Rapid Ascent (SP-Spirit)
Ashen Band of Endless Destruction (SP-Crit)
Phlactory of the nameless lich
Dislodged Foreign Object
Bloodsurge(284) - Runed Card
Shadow Silk Spindle
Corpse Impaling Spike (SP-Crit)

Baring in mind this is for the Horde (no heroic presence, in which case dump the hit gems) and taking Misery/Imp Fairie Fire into account. Now this list does leave you short of 5 hit rating, either gem it or expect to miss every once in a blue moon.

Using t10 hc sanc hands results in a dps loss according to rawr. As does using plaguebringer's stained pants over t10 hc leg's.

I agree with gemming hit, but if for example i'm losing 60-70 haste/crit for 30 hit rating off a particular piece, i'd rather gem for hit as the haste/crit rating will vastly outweigh the additional unneeded hit.

60 or 70 haste/crit or a piece which totally negates the haste or crit and gives you 30 hit more than you need. At the end of the day, to get the absolute max from your gear in icc25hc, you need to gem for hit (2x 12SP + 10 hit with my bis list). No matter how i do it, it's a considerable dps loss using for example Valanar's other signet ring/Loop of the endless labyrinth (to get the additional hit needed) instead of using ring of rapid ascent. Lose 60 crit/haste or gem a couple of veiled ametrines and not lose any spellpower in the process (and gain 60 crit!). It's a no brainer!

It seems that at the highest points of gearing (full 277) for fire, haste starts overtaking crit again.

In conclusion, Gunship Captains Mittens! :P

I'm currently seeing sort of the same thing and am playing around with Rawr and the new pieces from RS (see Mage PvE FAQ thread recent posts).

Good to hear I'm not completely going crazy. Looks like we'll have some editing to the BiS gear when RS rolls around anyway, so =D

Since you don`t list your Settings or a xml File it is completly useless to compare the DPS of BIS Lists.

You need to know Professions (Jewelcrafting - Enchanting), SP of the Demo Lock (4000), Focus Magic Rate (normally you change it to 0,373), Boss Fight Time (300), Inervate (no), Mana Tide (no), Power Infuision (No), Mana Gem (Yes), Mana Pot (Yes), Potion of Speed (Yes), Potion of Wild Magic (Yes) 2T10 Hasted Evo (Yes), AOE Targets (0), Cast Latency (0,01), GCD Latency (0,05).

In columns are the Settings we normally have used on EJ when we posted BIS Lists (including the xml File).
After that it is possible to compare the DPS but please stop posting differences of 100 dps when you can`t assure indentical Settings..........

The only difference the settings makes is the Focus Magic rate in valuing crit since crit and haste are so close. If you use the same settings when comparing both, that's all that matters. It's not like we activate all our buffs for one set and turn them off for another and claim the first is better because it has more dps.

[Swizzle]

FYI, i don't use runed cardinals in my set-ups. i use 3 runed dragon's eyes and the remaining red sockets are potent ametrine.

[Skarrd]

FYI, i don't use runed cardinals in my set-ups. i use 3 runed dragon's eyes and the remaining red sockets are potent ametrine.

This is what I'm gemming as well, minus the dragon's eyes since I'm not a JC.

[evensis]

This is the same for myself concerning the runed dragon's eye's. I just included runed card's to fill the position, again it's profession based so you'll have to work it out on rawr if its better for runed card's or potent ametrines.