Retribution in PvP? Underpowered?

[stunlockr]

yea HoF, DS, 10000 second stuns, faceroll

totally underpowered

[jenseits]

lol no its not. you can't get to 1100 resilience in honor gear, unless you're sacrificing BIG time for it. 900 is about the reasonable max i can reach, without gimping my haste, or going down to 2k spell damage. ignorance is bliss.

i honestly don't get why cleanse isn't the expectation. its like HoF has become their standard, and anytime cleanse is brought up they QQ so hard about having to use it, and i swear there are some(albeit rare) pallys that cleanse on a dime. i mean druids have to shift to maintain movement, rogues/mages/warriors, and basically every other class has to play limited CD's to maintain their movement. but with pally's its like if HoF is counterable they act like they're broke.

First off we're losing cleanse in cata so we won't have that to "complain" about. Second of all we actually complain that we are there as nothing more than a cleanse and buff bot for others. We might as well be holy, cause we're certainly not brought for our offense.

And HoF is not just counterable, it's practically nothing for kiters to counter, and it's our only barely viable means of keeping pace with people so ya, we have a gripe about that small window being so easily shut

[Spurmwhale]

Except the discussion here is about a SPEC, and not what gear you limit yourself to.

no the discussion between him and i was about 'what is acceptable resilience values to you?'....

he said 1100 was minimum for competency. i said 900 is about the max a honor geared player can get which is true.

[Spurmwhale]

First off we're losing cleanse in cata so we won't have that to "complain" about. Second of all we actually complain that we are there as nothing more than a cleanse and buff bot for others. We might as well be holy, cause we're certainly not brought for our offense.

And HoF is not just counterable, it's practically nothing for kiters to counter, and it's our only barely viable means of keeping pace with people so ya, we have a gripe about that small window being so easily shut

i guess when you get it dispelled you think its super easy to get, but on the other end failing after 4-5+ times, when CC isn't an option, others think its too hard to get. i've been on the fail 4-5+ times spellstealing it way too much for everyone to act like its so easy. maybe in duels but anywhere they buffstack, its definitely not easy.

and you guys can't pretend you're a buff bot when you're a plate class with more utility than any other melee, that are way more prone to snares/roots/etc., with above average DPS. i'm not saying the spec doesn't have some issues, imo it needs more variety and skill options to it, and no more of this set it and forget it style of abilities. but i am saying you all are in a great state right now as a class in terms of succeeding with your other 2 specs.

[wheresmywoft]

no the discussion between him and i was about 'what is acceptable resilience values to you?'....

he said 1100 was minimum for competency. i said 900 is about the max a honor geared player can get which is true.

Resilience requirements shift with gear access, if you're fighting someone with only furious you could get by with 900, whereas someone with wrathful would warrant 1100. If you two were talking about Ret paladins, it certainly wouldn't have been the same Ret paladin.

[Spurmwhale]

Resilience requirements shift with gear access, if you're fighting someone with only furious you could get by with 900, whereas someone with wrathful would warrant 1100. If you two were talking about Ret paladins, it certainly wouldn't have been the same Ret paladin.

this is what i replied to:


Yes, 1100+ is easy enough to get and makes the difference against a class that is all about burst with minimal utility.

A purge type ability could balance them more in pvp, a MS effect or spammable CC would be too strong with its current burst.

Arena is the only place where gear is remotely matched in the pvp side of this game.

[Land Hoe]

Anyone who's been wtfbursted down by a ret paladin in this day and age, is undergeared, and fighting a ret paladin with very, very good gear.

If you fought another class, in equivical gear to the paladin, such as say, a warrior, you would die considerably faster.

This thread's shit btw.

lol equivical. First off, it's not even spelled right, and secondly, equivocal doesn't even mean equal lol

[Sanisbad]

I AM THE RET PALAIDIN, I AM FOR5 TO CRUSH AND DESTRUCT ALL BATTLGEGROUND AND ARERRNA NOOBS WITHH MY TEWIRLY SPIN OF GREAT DOOM DEATHLY DAMAGE.

The idea that ret paladins are an unstoppable entity of pure destruction, slaughtering the masses in every direction is only relevant in a battleground or arena, where the ret paladin is facing unorganized, uncoordinated, undergeared players. When you have some gear, some coordination, and an organized approach to the fight, be it bg arena or otherwise, they really become very manageable.

You also have the 1v1 factor which plays into that myth.

[Doomwise]

While they do have a lot of utility, they are at the moment buff machines with support dps and no reliable burst at all. Which makes them awesome for 5s, good for 3s, but terrible and hard for 2s. I think most rets would agree with me that they would trade some of this utility for more burst, which won't really affect PvE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IChoScMGag

You're absolutely right, that is some horrific, worthless burst.

This is coming form the MSing, disarming, interrupting, gap closing, non DR inducing stunning, spammable snaring, fearing, cleaving, intervening...oh right. Sorry, go on?

I'll take MS as the starting point, so an Arms warrior.
Disarming - switching stance + rage loss, if talented and enough for disarm, 5 rage left, fuck all to do.
Interrupting - same into berserker stance, or def stance with 1h+shield switch, thus resetting the swing.
Gap closing - I know you're not talking about Warbringer, so you must mean the 30s cd Intercept.
Fear - once every 3min.
Cleave - 20rage, pointless when against a single target.
Intervene - again, switching to def stance.

Don't tell me "you're doing it wrong" when this gets me rage starved. Allowing a retlol to hit me to give me some rage is not a fucking great idea.

[kosmatin]

Well I am a Holy paldin in a hpally - warr 2v2 team. And everytime I meet a retribution paladin I smile because they cant do shit mildly spoken. Saying how their burst is oh so OP. Yeah right...
I must admit that hunters and shamans go down suprisingly fast but only if they are AFK. If the retri attacks the warrior he can't do shit, if he attack me he can't do shit especially if hes got a healer partner, now with two dps it depends who the other class is but still mostly they eat dirt. I am the least afraid to heal against a ret pally, then deathknights and I'm god damn afraid to heal against rogues speaking of OP I think thats what rogues are in 2's.

[thetaurenrogue]

I know there are gonna be some retarded asshats whove never played a ret paladin who are gonna try and flame me here, because obviously THEIR class isnt OP in some form or way?

But in any case, my vote is that ret is MISSING somthing that other classes do have. Now I will admit, ret pvp has its advantages over certain classes and are high in burst, but the main reason WHY they are like that is because blizzard has not found a proper way to balance the paladin's core defensive and specced offensive utility.

In fact, many can argue that the 30 second CD between Avenging Wrath and Bubble is a hinderance on ret pvp. Its like asking yourself "Do you wanna die because everyone sees you popped wings and left yourself open, therefore making you target #1? or do you wanna bubble in a hot situation, making u do hardly enough dmg to ppl in full pvp gear, and letting them just wait to kill you?" I'm not saying that bubble isnt a kind of get out of jail free card, but it is the classes signiature ability, and therefore had to have some diversity in power against other classes.

What I really am concerned about for ret's, (and I'm talking about the ones who are full ret and use 2h, not those Prot/ret pansies who cant play their class like it should be and survive without Ardent Defender :) is that they have no form of MS effect like most Melee and ranged dps, which makes them unable to kill pvp geared healers at all without some form of outside assistance. and that they have no closer like other melee dps does, warriors have their charge (now two if you count Juggernaut) and a DK's death grip/Chains of Ice. Without at least ONE of those utilities, ret pvp is at a severe disadvantage when it comes to counterbalancing ranged opponents and casters with their utility belts of CC's and snares.

Now I know that some of you trolls out there are just gonna love trying to pick out my post because your gonna say "Lol you dont even play arena srsly", and youre right, I dont... do you know WHY? It's because ret pvp does not have a good enough pvp mechanic to truely be effective in any Arena comp other than 5v5. Just look at the charts of top arena teams. I bet you the percentage of Full rets are very limited and low in the 2v2 and 3v3 brackets, and i bet the majority of healers in those positions are paladin instead. "If you can't play ret, then go holy pvp" you say? well I for one am not gonna be pushed around by FoTM dumbshits telling me how to play my class 'properly' and be a healbotting bitch for them. TBH, I dont like healing, i prefer to dps the fuck outa my enemies in PvP, but at this point in time, i cannot do so effectively in Arena because there ARE some issue with my spec's pvp balancing.

Thats my rant, and theres my two Gold.

Yes ret is underpowered although it is decent as support burst with a hunter or rogue in a gib 3s comp. Prot ret on the other hand is quite op and can be played in a variety of comps including double healer. Any class that can run double healer with no ms and doesn't have to win the mana war to win the fight is retarded. Just see http://www.arenajunkies.com/char/US/..._Ring/Burnjob/

[Saverem]

Look on the bright side, all HORDE Pallies have an interrupt...

[Whiskra]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IChoScMGag

You're absolutely right, that is some horrific, worthless burst.

Ah yes, because a video more than 1 year old clearly represents how retribution pvp is today.