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  1. #21

    Re: The Usefullness of Greater Heal in the Holy Priest's Arsenal

    I only tend to use GH on dreamwalker, or if a tank healer is down and I have the 3 stacks for reducing the cast time.

  2. #22

    Re: The Usefullness of Greater Heal in the Holy Priest's Arsenal

    I think it's also very personal to be honest.

    I'm not a hardcore raiding priest but I do some ICC raids as holy. And yes, I do use GH, just not really often.

    It just really depends on the situation and the group setup. Take for example ICC10, 2 healers on marrowgar and your co-healer gets impaled. What I do then is pop that guy a shield or renew, spam 2 or 3x FH on one tank and then a GH on the other tank (again, situational and assuming they both need heals)
    What I almost never do is GH without having it speeded up by the talent.

    I can see why people say it's useless but I think there will always be situations where it's the best thing you can use.

    I think that in the end it comes down to: if you keep raids from wiping, people from dying, and not get any serious mana issues, all that while using GH, I don't see any reason at all why you shouldn't use it.

  3. #23
    Deleted

    Re: The Usefullness of Greater Heal in the Holy Priest's Arsenal

    You should ask the druid guild leader a counter question: Does he use Healing Touch?

    Hopefully he doesn't, so he'll get the analogy. If he does use HT /gquit

  4. #24
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    Re: The Usefullness of Greater Heal in the Holy Priest's Arsenal

    As a Holy Priest who mostly does 10m raids I find Greater Heal situationally useful. I don't use it on every encounter but I do use it on most. With 3 stacks of Serendipity it goes pretty fast and heals for quite a lot.
    If I use Greater Heal it's often needed and I rarely overheal with it.
    In the occasional 25m pug I sometimes use it but it's mostly overheal there.
    Resurrected Holy Priest

  5. #25

    Re: The Usefullness of Greater Heal in the Holy Priest's Arsenal

    Quote Originally Posted by Malpractise
    It is really sad to see how many priest dismiss half there abilities, if you want to be a three button healer reroll paladin.
    First off, it's not about dismissing an ability, but about recognizing that an ability has very rare utility in the modern raiding environment.

    Second, are you suggesting that it's bad for priests to not actively use 1/2 of their abilities but that pally healers do? If you'd ever played a holy pally (effectively) you'd know that they are managing a lot of other tools, albeit some are not active heals (DP, SS, BoL, JoW/L, AM, HoSac, HoSalv, HoP, etc). Calling them 3 button healers is the same as calling holy priests 3 button healers (renew, PoM, CoH). It's a lot of what they do but if it's all they did, they'd fail pretty miserably. Might as well say shaman only cast chain heal and druids only rejuv.

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  6. #26

    Re: The Usefullness of Greater Heal in the Holy Priest's Arsenal

    I am glad that this post seems to have taken a turn. I really didn't intend this to turn into a bashing of my guild leader but more an examination of GH as a tool for holy priests. When I originally posted I was of teh opinion that GH was never usefull for holy priests. Now I have revized my opinion and I want to show my research as to why I would say this. My current theory is that GH in 25 mans has very little use seeing as the number of other healers in your raid. In 10 mans it gains situational usefullness only if the Resto Shaman, Holy Paladin or Disc Priest you should be raiding with is indisposed. Now this morning i examined the three spells that have casts times and that holy priests should use. These are Flash Heal, GH and PoH. I examined all of these from a base SP of 3446 and haste stat of 1081.

    Spell Name / Cast Time / Amount Healed / Mana Cost
    Flash Heal / 1.13 / 5474 / 695
    Greater Geal / 2.26 / 11131 / 1236
    GH with 1x Serendipity / 1.99 / 11131 / 1236
    GH with 2x Serendipity / 1.72 / 11131 / 1236
    GH with 3x Serendipity / 1.44 / 11131 / 1236
    Prayer of Healing / 2.26 / 4893 x5 / 1483
    PoH with 1x Serendipity / 1.99 / 4893 x5 / 1483
    PoH with 2x Serendipity / 1.72 / 4893 x5 / 1483
    PoH with 3x Serendipity / 1.44 / 4893 x5 / 1483

    Alright now that I have shown that I want to compare these three spells.

    Flash Heal vs. Greater Heal
    So as we can see an unhastened GH is aproximately equivalent to 2 flash heals in terms of healing, cast time and mana. I think this means that we can conclude that at no time we should be using GH without any stacks of Serendipity. This is simply because both spells are about equivalent and to the average holy priest flash heal comes with a bunch of benefits and procs that GH doesn't have. With one or multiple stacks of Serendipity GH becomes increasingly viable. In a 25 man though you end up rarely using flash heal so its much more rare for you to have stacks of serendipity up. Also if you have time to spam FH on a tank to get your stacks of serendipity up chances are that a tank healer will have already topped up the tank by the time GH goes off.

    Flash Heal vs. PoH
    There is absolutely no comparison between these two spells. The five flash heals you would need to cast to do the same amount of healing as an unhastened PoH would use nunnaceptably more mana and cast time. The only place flash heal will win here is in individual healing. Even in this case flash heal only wins out by about 1000 healing per person.

    GH vs. PoH
    Finally I want to compare these two spells. At first glance you can simply make the argument that they serve different functions. GH provides over 2x the single target healing but PoH heals up to 5 people for a significant amount. I would argue that you have to tailor your spells to your role as a healer. Holy priests are not efficient tank healers plain and simple. In a 25 man a holy priest is going to have vastly superior healing output if he casts PoH if he has any stacks of Serendipity and thus I must argue that this is what he should do. In a 10 man a good holy priest is forced to focus on the tank more even if it is at the cost of healing output. I would still argue though that GH should be a last resort if the tank healer is indisposed.

    So this is my argument as to why GH is inferior to PoH and as a Holy Priest the majority of the time you should be casting PoH with any stacks of serendipity. Also Flash heal should be used in place of GH most of the time because of teh comparable healing and mana loss. Since I only play a priest could anyone compare Shaman or Paladin heals to GH? Also I would apreciate any insights on this topic. I want tobe able to argue my Guild leader down next time.

  7. #27

    Re: The Usefullness of Greater Heal in the Holy Priest's Arsenal

    Quote Originally Posted by Curana
    So I recently got in a fight with my druid guild leader as to the usefulness of Greater Heal as a tool. I have always read that it should only be used in emergencies but my GL thinks otherwise. I would personally use PoH instead of GH but I may very well be wrong. I read these forums pretty religiously and there are some posters (such as Harky) who really make a lot of sense to me and I respect. I was wondering if you guys could explain to me whether GH is a worthwhile spell (say more worthwhile than flash heal) or if its worth using more and why. Thanks a lot I do appreciate it.
    There are cases where GH is useful. They're just so rare that most never cast it. Basically you need to be tank healing. If you're tanking healing a lot, then GH will be used. The problem with GH is that it heals for less than Renew. By a lot. GH heals for around 40% less than Renew. So as soon as Renew becomes an option to toss around a lot GH is out the window. When tank healing full time, if damage is high enough, then you'll drop GH quite often. When doing something like Dreamwalker you'll be doing FHx3->GH if and only if you're meant to be on the boss a lot. You really shouldn't be. If you're helping to tank heal and they aren't taking a lot of damage usually you just use FH, then if they take a spike you'll use GH with 3x Serendipity already up.

    Honestly though, no, it isn't worth using heavily. You're right in that it is for 'emergencies'. It's very situational and most of those situations revolve around roles Holy shouldn't be put into it. It's really not a flexible heal. Ask them how often they use Healing Touch. :P

    Oh bonus points, if they have it glyphed silently laugh at them for not realizing that Nourish is superior as a spot healing tool and they just gave up any real purpose in taking NS.

  8. #28

    Re: The Usefullness of Greater Heal in the Holy Priest's Arsenal

    I pretty much agree with most of what's been said here. If you NEVER use Greater Heal, you're simply not making the most of your available tools. Yes, the times when it is the best tool for the job are quite rare, and often another tool will still fill the role, but ignoring it altogether is just silly. Besides the obvious use of Valitria, it's also potentially useful with Serendipity stacks on Festergut with 3 Inhales, Putricide P3, Sindragosa with tank healers Ice Tombed and/or with Unchained Magic, and LK for predictable damage single target spikes (eg, Harvest Soul) or for filling in Infests that got missed for whatever reason (range, Disc Priest picked up, etc.). Sure, the majority of the uses for it in 25-man are when other people screw up, but if we depended on everyone else being perfect all the time, why bother grabbing talents like Body & Soul or Guardian Spirit?

    It also seems to be a little more useful in 10-mans, especially when 2-healing Heroic modes. I find it more useful, like when the Pally Healer gets spiked on Marrowgar, is in a bad position on Princes (had to run out from the Flame Orb), etc.

    Granted, over the course of a raid, it still is easily my least used heal, maybe 1-2% of my total heals, but that doesn't make it worthless.

  9. #29

    Re: The Usefullness of Greater Heal in the Holy Priest's Arsenal

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslick
    First off, it's not about dismissing an ability, but about recognizing that an ability has very rare utility in the modern raiding environment.

    Second, are you suggesting that it's bad for priests to not actively use 1/2 of their abilities but that pally healers do? If you'd ever played a holy pally (effectively) you'd know that they are managing a lot of other tools, albeit some are not active heals (DP, SS, BoL, JoW/L, AM, HoSac, HoSalv, HoP, etc). Calling them 3 button healers is the same as calling holy priests 3 button healers (renew, PoM, CoH). It's a lot of what they do but if it's all they did, they'd fail pretty miserably. Might as well say shaman only cast chain heal and druids only rejuv.
    When several people have posted stating GH is useless then yes it is about dismissing an ability. And in comparison to pallies I'm not talking about utility but healing output.

    My point is simply that from a straight healing output pov priest have a lot of abilities all of which have there uses and to label any of them as useless is stopping you from getting the most out of your class. I agree GH is situational, but to people coming here look for advice on how to better play as a holy priest telling them such and such spell is useless is only holding them back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Curana
    GH vs. PoH
    Finally I want to compare these two spells. At first glance you can simply make the argument that they serve different functions. GH provides over 2x the single target healing but PoH heals up to 5 people for a significant amount. I would argue that you have to tailor your spells to your role as a healer. Holy priests are not efficient tank healers plain and simple. In a 25 man a holy priest is going to have vastly superior healing output if he casts PoH if he has any stacks of Serendipity and thus I must argue that this is what he should do. In a 10 man a good holy priest is forced to focus on the tank more even if it is at the cost of healing output. I would still argue though that GH should be a last resort if the tank healer is indisposed.
    You simply cannot compare the two. They are very different abilities. And this is exactly my point. Healing is about situational awareness and choosing the best spell for the situation. POH may outheal GH if 5 people need the healing, but if you have a near dead tank and 4 party members on near full health with a full stack of serendipity, are you really going to waste that on a POH?

    Get over healing done and HPS. I don't care if you're at the bottom of healing done every raid, if you routinely bring players back from near dead, you are MUCH more valuable than the tunnelvision COH spamming healer who only cares about topping healing done.
    If you say "pls" becuase it's shorter than "please", I'll say "no" becuase it's shorted than "yes".

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