Cataclysn - What do Spriests sub-spec into??...

[Strykie]

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=zsp3irUiy8e51.9dw.priest

THE Shadow Priest Spec assuming talents dont change.

If Threat Reduction is actually required, Full Shadow.

[finnalblow]

front page now says there arnt enough shadow talents so we wont even have this problem in a lil while but so far it seems like we only need 8 points in disc i think getting barrier as shadow would be usless im not going to watchout for other peoples health bar im the DPS

[Purple]

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=zsp3irUiy8e51.9dw.priest

THE Shadow Priest Spec assuming talents dont change.

If Threat Reduction is actually required, Full Shadow.

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=Qsp3irFYhxDs.9dw.priest
This is where I get stumped, when putting points into Disc now.. Unbreakable Will for PvE? No. Martyrdom for PvE? No. Penitence is useless to Shadow. No. Atonement follows the same issue, useless to Shadow. Another No. I "could" put points in one of these to boost me up to the next tier of Discipline to reach Mental Agility (actually useful), however, I don't see the drive some of you have to reach Power Word: Barrier.

Worse than that, if I don't go all the way to Barrier in Disc, I have absolutely no clue what to take.. period. I don't see anything past Mental Agility that I'd find a use for and note I said use, I find a use for Mental Agility, but it's not something fantastic I have to reach.

Now if Power Infusion were down where Barrier is instead.. that I could find a use for. It's not there though, so I'm sitting on.. several points I don't really feel the need to spend. In addition I could easily drop a few Shadow Talents, where PvE is concerned, and not see much of a difference.

..

Which all just tells me that they aren't done, and that we'll see more later. I can't imagine they'd hit release with the trees looking anything like this.

[fabian]

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=Qsp3irFYhxDs.9dw.priest
This is where I get stumped, when putting points into Disc now.. Unbreakable Will for PvE? No. Martyrdom for PvE? No. Penitence is useless to Shadow. No. Atonement follows the same issue, useless to Shadow. Another No. I "could" put points in one of these to boost me up to the next tier of Discipline to reach Mental Agility (actually useful), however, I don't see the drive some of you have to reach Power Word: Barrier.

Worse than that, if I don't go all the way to Barrier in Disc, I have absolutely no clue what to take.. period. I don't see anything past Mental Agility that I'd find a use for and note I said use, I find a use for Mental Agility, but it's not something fantastic I have to reach.

Now if Power Infusion were down where Barrier is instead.. that I could find a use for. It's not there though, so I'm sitting on.. several points I don't really feel the need to spend. In addition I could easily drop a few Shadow Talents, where PvE is concerned, and not see much of a difference.

..

Which all just tells me that they aren't done, and that we'll see more later. I can't imagine they'd hit release with the trees looking anything like this.

You are supposed to get some talents that are not exactly useful to get utility in from another tree. PW:B is an awesome tank CD(and pretty useful raid wall for x amount of people) but getting to it is the hard part. The alternative is getting the PvP stuff in shadow that are useful in a handful of situations.

Of course this is only alpha, the blues have said shadow needs more talents, and I can guarantee we'll see a lot more talent changes before release.

[waddlez]

front page now says there arnt enough shadow talents so we wont even have this problem in a lil while but so far it seems like we only need 8 points in disc i think getting barrier as shadow would be usless im not going to watchout for other peoples health bar im the DPS

lol oh you

welcome to post wrath where your focus isn't on your rotation

surviving will take center stage bro, learn to look up at grid

[Abandon]

Well, they have said that CC will be important in Cataclysm again, so picking up Focused Power wouldn't hurt for Mind Control as Shadow. You could also pick up Unbreakable Will for PVE, although that would depend on what type of raid CC there is in PVP. If there are a lot of bosses who fear or stun it could be worth it to get out of those effects 30% sooner. Inner Focus is now 25% crit chance and no mana cost on a 1 minute cooldown, a very nice little talent.
You could even pick up a few points in Improved Power Word Shield which would increase the amount it absorbs by 20% (combined with Twin Disciplines). Coupled with our 15% damage reduction, it would be nice for survivability, and one less person for your Disc Priest to shield. Also, Discipline won't be able to spam bubbles as much as they do now, not with the change to Soul Warding, so being able to take care of it yourself wouldn't hurt.

Anyhow, apparently they are going to be adding a few more Shadow talents, and some more attractive options in Discipline, so until the next build I would wait and see.

[BenMorte]

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=Qsp3irFYhxDs.9dw.priest
This is where I get stumped, when putting points into Disc now.. Unbreakable Will for PvE? No. Martyrdom for PvE? No. Penitence is useless to Shadow. No. Atonement follows the same issue, useless to Shadow. Another No. I "could" put points in one of these to boost me up to the next tier of Discipline to reach Mental Agility (actually useful), however, I don't see the drive some of you have to reach Power Word: Barrier.

Worse than that, if I don't go all the way to Barrier in Disc, I have absolutely no clue what to take.. period. I don't see anything past Mental Agility that I'd find a use for and note I said use, I find a use for Mental Agility, but it's not something fantastic I have to reach.

Now if Power Infusion were down where Barrier is instead.. that I could find a use for. It's not there though, so I'm sitting on.. several points I don't really feel the need to spend. In addition I could easily drop a few Shadow Talents, where PvE is concerned, and not see much of a difference.

..

Which all just tells me that they aren't done, and that we'll see more later. I can't imagine they'd hit release with the trees looking anything like this.

That's exactly what I was trying to say before and everyone just "OH snap, this dude doesn't know what he's talking about" BUT I do, I just have trouble getting it out in a good way=P.
Didn't mean I wanted all +% talents but I'd like talents that prop up my spells somehow and not talents that does shit for me. Atleast I don't think they are actually designing it so that spriest SHOULD take PW:B so they can save a group of loosers. and that we have to spend talents on things we won't use EVER to get to it. That's just not right.

[Kaesebrezen]

Also, Discipline won't be able to spam bubbles as much as they do now, not with the change to Soul Warding, so being able to take care of it yourself wouldn't hurt.

What is the difference between no CD and 1 sec CD? There isn't one, because the GCD is 1-1,5 sec. Disc priests could spam as much as they do now, at least if you only name Soul Warding as your argument. More likely that the blue bar will be a limiting factor. Also Disc shield are 25% + at least 20% mastery stronger.

[Purple]

You are supposed to get some talents that are not exactly useful to get utility in from another tree. PW:B is an awesome tank CD(and pretty useful raid wall for x amount of people) but getting to it is the hard part. The alternative is getting the PvP stuff in shadow that are useful in a handful of situations.

Of course this is only alpha, the blues have said shadow needs more talents, and I can guarantee we'll see a lot more talent changes before release.

Okay, there's a difference between having several good choices to spend spare talents on, and having a bunch of points left over that you purposefully neglect to spend and get about the same effect.

Power Word: Barrier is still a shield, and, as far as we know, it still has all the downfalls of a shield - that being if you shield someone instead of your Disc or Holy priest, it will be a lot less effective and potentially interfere with what the Discipline or Holy Priest is doing.

On top of that, you're forgetting the most important thing, and half the reason many people go Shadow. Pick up Power Word: Barrier if you want, but don't delude yourself for a second into thinking that it is "awesome" for everyone. There's nothing Hard about getting to Power Word: Barrier right now, in fact, it's the only PvE option for Shadow period at the moment or did you miss the entire post you quoted? Hence:

Which all just tells me that they aren't done, and that we'll see more later. I can't imagine they'd hit release with the trees looking anything like this.

..

Or have we seen a majority of dedicated Shadowpriests out there going, "Gee golly gosh wizz I sure wish I was a discipline priest!" ?

That's exactly what I was trying to say before and everyone just "OH snap, this dude doesn't know what he's talking about" BUT I do, I just have trouble getting it out in a good way=P.
Didn't mean I wanted all +% talents but I'd like talents that prop up my spells somehow and not talents that does shit for me. Atleast I don't think they are actually designing it so that spriest SHOULD take PW:B so they can save a group of loosers. and that we have to spend talents on things we won't use EVER to get to it. That's just not right.

It would be an idiotic design if they did, again, for reasons stated above. Your Power Word: Barrier as Shadow is lesser, by design, than that a Discipline or Holy Priest's Power Word: Barrier. Throwing that out could easily interfere with what the actual Discipline Priest or Actual Holy Priest are doing, even get someone killed. If you're the only Priest, that's another thing, but again, why would our best PvE spec as Shadow be to bring something a Discipline or Holy priest should be bringing instead? Our best PvE spec should be further enhancing our presence as a Shadowpriest.. not make us watered down Discipline Priests. Hence, again: These talents are far, far from done.

..

On another note, I do play a Discipline Priest on the side, I enjoy them, and I'd just like to add that I'd really really like base Power Word: Shield graphics to get upgraded a bit.

[fabian]

Okay, there's a difference between having several good choices to spend spare talents on, and having a bunch of points left over that you purposefully neglect to spend and get about the same effect.

Power Word: Barrier is still a shield, and, as far as we know, it still has all the downfalls of a shield - that being if you shield someone instead of your Disc or Holy priest, it will be a lot less effective and potentially interfere with what the Discipline or Holy Priest is doing.

On top of that, you're forgetting the most important thing, and half the reason many people go Shadow. Pick up Power Word: Barrier if you want, but don't delude yourself for a second into thinking that it is "awesome" for everyone. There's nothing Hard about getting to Power Word: Barrier right now, in fact, it's the only PvE option for Shadow period at the moment or did you miss the entire post you quoted? Hence:



..

Or have we seen a majority of dedicated Shadowpriests out there going, "Gee golly gosh wizz I sure wish I was a discipline priest!" ?

Like I said in my post, they want you to sacrifice some talents to get utility in another tree, even if the difference in your dps is noticeable, but with the current alpha trees the dps will not be noticeable. With the changes to come, I can guarantee that we'll eventually have to sacrifice some dps for PW:B.

Now, if you look at the fact that PW:B does not include a debuff that would stop it from being spammed suggests it will not interfere with other PW:B. Add on the fact that it has a 3 min CD and not the scaling included in the description, it suggest it is powerful even as shadow. The only difference between Disc PW:B and holy/shadow PW:B is by the amount of mastery/SP the disc priest has compared to the SP of the holy/shadow priest.

And apparently, you missed most of my post since I actually gave situations where the use of PW:B by a shadow priest would be extremely beneficial. I also said the exact same thing as you suggested that I missed. So please, comprehend posts and do not nerd rage at alpha stuff, it makes you look like an idiot.

[Kaesebrezen]

With the changes to come, I can guarantee that we'll eventually have to sacrifice some dps for PW:B.

Then you go can go the other way and slowly heal the damage in your group with improved VE instead of absorbing a tiny amount on the whole raid.
I think of two possibilities;
a) Place barrier and absorb damage damage, your healers don't have to heal and save mana, but the fight lasts longer (Move in the Barrier).
b) Get improved VE, heal your group(for some more hp), save mana on your healers, and have a shorter fight.

In the end it will come down to which version saves more mana on your healers.
Best scenario will be that both versions have the same effect and it's up to you to decide which is more fun for you.

[Crazhr]

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=zsp3irUiy8e51.9dw.priest

THE Shadow Priest Spec assuming talents dont change.

If Threat Reduction is actually required, Full Shadow.

Only 1 problem You spent 77 points, and you are only going to have 76. But that can all be fixed with removing a point from imp VE.

About the pw: b vs imp ve then instead of bashing your heads against each other ask yourself this. Do you prefer a less stressfull "difficult" part of a boss fight or do you prefer a less stressfull fight in the "normal" phases. We can assume that while pw:b is up its going to be atleast abit more powerfull then imp ve simply because its a cd, so its simply a matter of which part of the fight you want to make "less" difficult and I think that depends alot on the raid and your personal playstyle.

[Kaesebrezen]

Only 1 problem You spent 77 points, and you are only going to have 76. But that can all be fixed with removing a point from imp VE.

That's a bug with the talent calc, 1 points (the 77) is put into Designer Notes. And the Notes definately are not a talent.

[Crazhr]

That's a bug with the talent calc, 1 points (the 77) is put into Designer Notes. And the Notes definately are not a talent.

ohhh /facepalm -.-

[Mandible]

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=QspOeNGeqc8gh.9dw.priest - what I would spec as shadow with current talents

[fabian]

Then you go can go the other way and slowly heal the damage in your group with improved VE instead of absorbing a tiny amount on the whole raid.
I think of two possibilities;
a) Place barrier and absorb damage damage, your healers don't have to heal and save mana, but the fight lasts longer (Move in the Barrier).
b) Get improved VE, heal your group(for some more hp), save mana on your healers, and have a shorter fight.

In the end it will come down to which version saves more mana on your healers.
Best scenario will be that both versions have the same effect and it's up to you to decide which is more fun for you.

Actually, b) is not necessarily shorter because of pushbacks. and a) does not necessarily involve moving if the range are already bunched. But like you said, it is whichever saves more mana.

[Dreamtail]

unfinished tree is unfinished

[Purple]

Like I said in my post, they want you to sacrifice some talents to get utility in another tree, even if the difference in your dps is noticeable, but with the current alpha trees the dps will not be noticeable. With the changes to come, I can guarantee that we'll eventually have to sacrifice some dps for PW:B.

If at any time a Shadow Priest has to take Power Word: Barrier for a competitive PvE spec, things have gone wrong. Absolutely wrong.

Now, if you look at the fact that PW:B does not include a debuff that would stop it from being spammed suggests it will not interfere with other PW:B. Add on the fact that it has a 3 min CD and not the scaling included in the description, it suggest it is powerful even as shadow. The only difference between Disc PW:B and holy/shadow PW:B is by the amount of mastery/SP the disc priest has compared to the SP of the holy/shadow priest.

If you don't see the excessive difference between a Discipline or Holy Priest using Power Word: Barrier and a Shadow Priest using Power Word: Barrier, your end of the conversation smacked into a concrete wall long ago.

And apparently, you missed most of my post since I actually gave situations where the use of PW:B by a shadow priest would be extremely beneficial. I also said the exact same thing as you suggested that I missed.

All you outlined were situations where a Shadow Priest should have had very different options, and what a Holy or Discipline Priest should be doing instead. Perfect examples of why these talents are far from done, and why your thinking on this subject is so irreparably off.

So please, comprehend posts and do not nerd rage at alpha stuff,

You think your posts are worthy anything more than a passing response? Fine delusion.

it makes you look like an idiot.

Insulting me, doesn't make me look like anything. You on the other hand..

[fabian]

If at any time a Shadow Priest has to take Power Word: Barrier for a competitive PvE spec, things have gone wrong. Absolutely wrong.

Please show me where I've said that spriest having to take PW:B to be competitive in PvE? All I am saying is that taking PW:B is one possible spec.

If you don't see the excessive difference between a Discipline or Holy Priest using Power Word: Barrier and a Shadow Priest using Power Word: Barrier, your end of the conversation smacked into a concrete wall long ago.

There is absolutely no talents that affect PW:B, and the only thing that does affect it that is exclusive to one tree is Disc's 3rd mastery. In terms of strength of PW:B it goes Disc > Holy = Shadow. Also, DPS can, and have went into another tree to get utility that is used. Look at Ret paladins and their use of Aura Mastery/DS.

All you outlined were situations where a Shadow Priest should have had very different options, and what a Holy or Discipline Priest should be doing instead. Perfect examples of why these talents are far from done, and why your thinking on this subject is so irreparably off.

What is so bad about helping the raid? DPS has done it in the past AND present, so why not the future?

You think your posts are worthy anything more than a passing response? Fine delusion.



Insulting me, doesn't make me look like anything. You on the other hand..

First off, calling my posts delusional is apparently not an insult while saying not to nerdrage at alpha is? Although my comments were somewhat directed towards you(because you do need it), it is more of general advice since I've actually used this advice before and on these boards. Just because something that is not even finalized to go to Beta is shown, it does not give you the right to say "Oh shit, Blizz is doing a horrible job". Right not, I'm playing Devil's(or would this be the opposite since devil would advocate more towards shadow?) advocate simply because I'd rather get Imp VE than PW:B but I do understand why PW:B is so attractive.

And second, if my posts are delusional and is not worthy more than a passing response, so are yours since they both are of similar, one sided, "you can't convince me otherwise" stubbornness.

I am sure we agree on one thing though...

First pass Alpha is still First Pass.

[Purple]

Please show me where I've said that spriest having to take PW:B to be competitive in PvE? All I am saying is that taking PW:B is one possible spec.

Why would I need to do that when I didn't suggest you did. Not everything is about you.

There is absolutely no talents that affect PW:B, and the only thing that does affect it that is exclusive to one tree is Disc's 3rd mastery. In terms of strength of PW:B it goes Disc > Holy = Shadow. Also, DPS can, and have went into another tree to get utility that is used. Look at Ret paladins and their use of Aura Mastery/DS.

And.. you still don't get it.

What is so bad about helping the raid? DPS has done it in the past AND present, so why not the future?

What is so mind boggling about playing a Shadow Priest like a Shadow Priest?

First off, calling my posts delusional

Calling your insult delusional =/= calling your post delusional.

Just because something that is not even finalized to go to Beta is shown, it does not give you the right to say "Oh shit, Blizz is doing a horrible job".

Oh look, now you've lowered yourself to putting words in other people's mouths. If I thought that, I would have said that; instead of saying this was all proof of how far from done the talents were.

.. if mine are.. so are yours ..

Duh? What next? Rubber and Glue? What a bore.