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  1. #1

    Why Trauma is good or bad

    Ok so the last two disc priests we have had in the guild are having major arguments about why trauma is either bad or good for a disc priest VS say the bonespike. Were an 11/12uild we have access to everything but LK weapons.

    Now I know absolutley nothing about priests I'm just trying ot find the answers I wouldnt know where to look so I'm really just looking for a quick answer

    Weapon A -
    stat 1
    stat 2
    stat 3

    and maybe a small explanation on why those are beneficial.

    the argument as it stands is this

    Trauma VS Bonespike is about playstyle that the proc off trauma is just as good as say the 2% crit u might gain from bonespike that it doesnt really matter which you choose they are good either way.

  2. #2
    There's a huge thread about this very thing. In short, the only thing that beats Trauma as Discipline is Royal Scepter and even then there are fights where Trauma is slightly better (Blood Queen, Festergut, H-Putricide, Sindragosa).

    Crit as Discipline:
    You get 1.285% crit from Bonespike. That's a rough increase of .001% healing to PW:S, which will be 75%+ of your healing most of the time. It will often be 85%+ and sometimes 90%+, but almost never under 60%. Crit gains of less than 10% are not something you can actually notice a difference of without doing hundreds of fights and comparing with and without the crit. The gain is infinitesimal for general healing. Crit is only decent when tank healing, but it is completely inferior to Haste when tank healing.

    Spirit and MP5 as Discipline:
    Pretty awful. Discipline Priests who have mana problems are, in general, doing something wrong. Your regen needs should be managed by swapping trinkets, cloak enchants, or meta gems. Again using Bonespike the absolute maximum you could get out of it is an additional PW:S every 180 seconds. However, you can only gain that when actually running OOM, which you will not be doing much as Discipline. If ever.

    Haste as Discipline:
    Haste does not benefit PW:S in any way. However, it is your absolute best secondary stat for single target healing and the only primary stat that's better is SP. Haste is better than Crit because neither benefits when shield spamming, but Haste is roughly four times better than Crit when not shield spamming.

    Trauma's proc is worth ~1% of your healing on any aura fight. To get that much through crit while shield spamming you would need to gain around 20% crit (over 950 rating). On the flip side you would usually only need to gain around 70 SP to beat that. So Trauma vs Scepter is pretty close, but Trauma vs Bonespike isn't really close at all.

    Really the only argument against Trauma is if you full time tank heal. If you do then pass on Trauma and Bonespike both. You'd be looking at Scepter, Tel'thas (heroic), Lockjaw (heroic), or even Archus off LK25.

    The reason the argument occurs is because Trauma's proc is actually pretty bad as Discipline. One side sees that the proc isn't so great and laughs calling it worthless. The other side notes that crit/spirit/haste/mp5 are all worse than the proc and so they place it at 2nd in slot.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    For Disc:
    LK Mace > Trauma > others

    For Holy:
    Vala'nyr > Trauma > others

  4. #4
    You know something's fishy when the BiS weapon for every other healer isn't even top-10 for you. :P

  5. #5
    I concur with Frmercury.

    If you're mostly a tank healer, then Bonespike wins because the crit is actually beneficial. If you're a bubblebot, /shrug. Grab whatever has good spellpower, the rest is largely unimportant.

    One thing is for sure - if you put the needs of the guild ahead of your own personal gain at all, a Disc Priest should pass Trauma to a "raid healer" (read: anything else but a Holy Pally). They will get a lot of use out of the proc, which is more important than just taking it for the spellpower.

  6. #6
    agree with everything above.

    i'd urge you to try using trauma with PoH (+glyph), it's actually incredibly good, and more efficient healing for constant raid damage than just bubble spamming.
    the glyph from PoH gives trauma a massive chance to proc.

    however, if you're doing nearly exlusive single target healing (anubhc for example) then bonespike>trauma.
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  7. #7
    trauma and abicus have horrible proc rates. there both rather bad for discipline. If there all you can get at the time snatch them. If you have the opportunities to get the LK mace / and 258 solace , those are much better choices.
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  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonish View Post
    trauma and abicus have horrible proc rates. there both rather bad for discipline. If there all you can get at the time snatch them. If you have the opportunities to get the LK mace / and 258 solace , those are much better choices.
    Why not run 258 Solace / 277 Abacus? Even if it had no proc 201 SP is amazing for Disc. The proc tends to be meh overall, but that doesn't stop the trinket from being good.

    Similar thing with Trauma. It's the same SP as other 277 weapons, but the proc is going to amount to more than 1% Crit from Bonspike would on average.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    For Disc:
    LK Mace > Trauma > others

    For Holy:
    Vala'nyr > Trauma > others
    I wouldn't agree on this. Vala'nyr is BiS for Disc as well.

    Protection of the Ancient Kings (Vala'nyr absorb effect) and Divine Aegis are procs and have priority over PW:S when damage is taken. In most cases Vala'nyr proc is ~15% of my total healing done (mostly from Glyph of PW:S and PoM), clearly 2% from Trauma is not even close to that and 200sp more did not make much of a difference (I've tried it both).
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  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Hmm, That's interesting. I'd love to see some logs on that. Is this ~15% in 25 mans?

  11. #11
    I have used Trauma, Bonespike, the LK10man dagger and Heroic Dying Light all as disc over the last few weeks and tbh, i feel trauma is the worst. I have nothing logged to back that up with though

    Trauma rarely procs for it to be worth it, its only worth it after all your shamans, druids, holy priests and pallies already have it.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    Hmm, That's interesting. I'd love to see some logs on that. Is this ~15% in 25 mans?
    Depends of many circumstances but it's between 10 and 15% (usually lower in 25, higher in 10man).

    It scales well with gear/spellpower cause, like I've said, it has priority over PW:S when damage is taken.

    Here's log from our LK HC 25 tries few days ago (mind that besides healing I'm also cleansing the plague).
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7...hl/details/55/
    "There's a difference between us. You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom. And I go to make sure that they have it."
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  13. #13
    On LK HC i would never use Vala as Disc, maybe but prob not just in the HS Room. I run Spike for Shieldin ( More crit and int and stamina) and Trauma only for the HS room, i have HC Trauma on my Shamy and my Priest and i think it proccs more on Droods but not sure. Last LK HC kill it healed 130k which is good, but every other fight even BQL now adays its mostly overheal.
    And as disc id rather take sp then a procc which would be in icc what? 3k heal by PW S Glyphe 15% = 450 Shield?
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Myzrael View Post
    Depends of many circumstances but it's between 10 and 15% (usually lower in 25, higher in 10man).

    It scales well with gear/spellpower cause, like I've said, it has priority over PW:S when damage is taken.

    Here's log from our LK HC 25 tries few days ago (mind that besides healing I'm also cleansing the plague).
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7...hl/details/55/
    I'm a big fan of Val'anyr (5 more fragments to go till I can shut the door permanently on Ulduar) but I think you should consider the inaccuracy of absorb attribution inherent to the combat log when viewing WoL reports and your weighting Val'anyr's value as disc. As the log does not measure the specific amounts absorbed by each mechanic, but rather gives credit for an absorb just to one for each occurrence (can't remember if it's the most recent or oldest spell still residing), the results are distorted regarding the actual performance of each.

    Here's an extract from the overall from your log:

    Divine Aegis 1104 occurrences, 6932.7 avg absorb, 34.4% of total
    Power Word Shield 810 occurrences, 7349.1 avg absorb, 26.8% of total
    Prot of Ancient Kings 449 occurrences, 6250.3 avg absorb, 12.6% of total

    Given that your predominant cast on H LK is PW:S, and that there's no other heal that could produce a large DA / PoAK that is remotely close in % of healing done, it's safe to assume that the 12.6% for PoAK and 26.8% for DA are inflated resulting from analyzing incorrect data resulting from shortcomings in the combat log's design. In reality, this will be a much, much smaller amount.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by MilkaMaus View Post
    And as disc id rather take sp then a procc which would be in icc what? 3k heal by PW S Glyphe 15% = 450 Shield?
    PW:S recieves 80% of your spellpower; 200 sp more = 160 more damage absorbed, which is almost 3 times less than 450, add to that 50% buffed crit chance which affects Glyph of PW:S but not PW:S itself.

    ---------- Post added 06-15-2010 at 05:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslick View Post
    Given that your predominant cast on H LK is PW:S, and that there's no other heal that could produce a large DA / PoAK that is remotely close in % of healing done, it's safe to assume that the 12.6% for PoAK and 26.8% for DA are inflated resulting from analyzing incorrect data resulting from shortcomings in the combat log's design. In reality, this will be a much, much smaller amount.
    I've based my statements on WoL and Skada Absorb module being pretty similar, but you might be right. It's difficult tracking it accurately.
    "There's a difference between us. You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom. And I go to make sure that they have it."
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Myzrael View Post
    PW:S recieves 80% of your spellpower; 200 sp more = 160 more damage absorbed, which is almost 3 times less than 450, add to that 50% buffed crit chance which affects Glyph of PW:S but not PW:S itself.

    ---------- Post added 06-15-2010 at 05:06 PM ----------


    I've based my statements on WoL and Skada Absorb module being pretty similar, but you might be right. It's difficult tracking it accurately.

    80% of spellpower?
    since when?

    wowwiki has a formula ( (base_absorb+(0.8068+0.08*BT)*sp)*(1+0.05*IMP)*(1+ 0.02*FP)*(1+0.01*TD) ) which even with high spellpower is nowhere near 80%

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Myzrael View Post
    I've based my statements on WoL and Skada Absorb module being pretty similar, but you might be right. It's difficult tracking it accurately.
    They are pretty similar, but both plagued by having to judge flawed source data. Hopefully Blizzard follows through with their expressed intention to track absorbs accurately in Cata.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
    80% of spellpower?
    since when?

    wowwiki has a formula ( (base_absorb+(0.8068+0.08*BT)*sp)*(1+0.05*IMP)*(1+ 0.02*FP)*(1+0.01*TD) ) which even with high spellpower is nowhere near 80%
    Receives a 80.68% bonus from spell power (30% of +healing in Patch 2.3; 20% as of Patch 2.0.10, previously 10%)
    from same link, which are those 0.8068 in formula you pasted.

    Anyway, even if it's wrong, as you say it's even less, being definitely less worth than proc from Vala'nyr.

    Not to derail thread, Trauma is good weapon but proc is very situational and has decent use only on fights where constant healing is needed, such as Festergut or Blood Queen.
    "There's a difference between us. You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom. And I go to make sure that they have it."
    - William Wallace

  19. #19
    Err, well you're full of bad information, aren't you.

    Val'anyr vs Trauma:
    Val'anyr is nowhere near BiS for Discipline. The proc size is based entirely off healing done. The reason some Discipline Priests are tricked into seeing it as being strong is because of the combat log being unable to properly read absorbs the proc is credited for absorbs that it did not actually produce. The same applies to Divine Aegis, which is a much smaller portion of healing than many realize. When adjusted for actual healing the absolute maximum percentage of healing that the proc could account for on most fights is less than 3%. That's with the proc having 100% uptime. However, that will never occur due to average uptime only being ~27% with maximum uptime only at 33%. Val'anyr will almost never account for more than 1% healing as Discipline. Only when tank healing will you get more than this. The advantage to Trauma is that while the procs are interchangeable as Discipline, Trauma has 120 more SP. Heroic Trauma has 215 more SP and a gem slot, for 238 more SP. This puts Trauma head and shoulders above Val'anyr as Discipline.

    Cliffs note version: The Val'anyr proc will typically average out to ~4.95% of your healing done. Discipline will typically have 20% or less of their output from healing. This places Val'anyr's worth at ~1%.

    PW:S scaling:
    I'm really not sure how you could be that far off. Read that formula again. See: .8068 + .08 * BT. That means that PW:S scaling is not 80.68%, but 120.68%. Also 'nowhere near' does not mean 'even less', it simply means the two numbers aren't close. 80.68 and 120.68 are pretty far off. That's just under 150% more from SP than you have implied.

    So how much does 238 SP increase PW:S? Well, there's the base scaling to start. That's 287.2184 just from the scaling. Now we have 5% more from Twin Disicpline's. That's 301.579. Now we have 4% from Focused Power. That's 313.642. Now we have 15% from Imp. PW:S. That's 360.688. Total scaling per point of SP? 151.5%. That's only for the absorb though. The glyph increases that to 432.82. 181.85% scaling in all. More than double the 80.68% you mentioned.

    So let's say you have 4,000 SP with Val'anyr and 4,238 with Trauma.
    Val'anyr PW:S -- 8,862 absorbed / 1,772 healed / 10,634 total
    Trauma PW:S -- 9,311 absorbed / 1,862 healed / 11,173 total
    Gain: +5%

    Maximum gain from Val'anyr proc = ~87 average, or around .8%. This means that without the proc from Trauma being included at all Trauma will increase your PW:S worth by 4.2% over Val'anyr.

  20. #20
    I'm not into theorycrafting as much as you are, nor I'm as good at it, but from my own experience in ICC 10/25 LK HC, I had easier time controlling infest with Vala'nyr.
    "There's a difference between us. You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom. And I go to make sure that they have it."
    - William Wallace

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