Need some clarification (Slam + 4pc t10)

[pancakz]

Hey guys. First of all I'd like to point out that I'm not new to the class, have been playing it since TBC.

I'm just in a bit of a muddle with Slam! Procs. Usually the situation goes BT > WW > (Slam procs). So do I use a slam after WW and clip the BT coming back on from cooldown? This applies to both normal proc and double proc. I can fit 1 charge of the double proc in before BT due to the reduced GCD but not sure if I should just leave single proc ones to run out. It's become a bit of a habit now and looking over other warrior's logs, they seem to hardly ever use slam.

Thanks in advance

[Druchii]

BT - WW is priority.

Only use slam if it won't clip BT or WW.

I find myself using Slam - BT - Slam a lot with the double procs.

[Alianthos]

Yeah, do not delay BT / WW / BT cycle. Single slam procs can be a problem sometimes, i find myself loosing the proc completly once in a while, for instance just before BT / WW. But when it comes to the double proc, usually it's much better with the GCD reduced and the extended uptime.

But EJ's fury compendium is pretty clear about that : delaying BT / WW for more that 0,5s to grab a slam proc is a dps loss.

[ägaren]

Warriors who don't use Slam at all don't know their class. It's a dps gainer if you use it correctly.
Sometimes I get a dual-procc and both WW and BT is on CD, in that case I can pop off 2x after eachoter.

Keep in mind that GCD is reduced after each pop of Slam and Slam procc duration is extended to 8 sec, which is a full WW CD.
During those 8 sec's you should be able to get 2x BT, 2x Slam and probably a HS or two also unless you starv.

[pancakz]

Yeah, do not delay BT / WW / BT cycle. Single slam procs can be a problem sometimes, i find myself loosing the proc completly once in a while, for instance just before BT / WW. But when it comes to the double proc, usually it's much better with the GCD reduced and the extended uptime.

But EJ's fury compendium is pretty clear about that : delaying BT / WW for more that 0,5s to grab a slam proc is a dps loss.

Thanks alot for clearing that up for me in plain terms I can understand

[Craigadiddle]

Warriors who don't use Slam at all don't know their class. It's a dps gainer if you use it correctly.
Sometimes I get a dual-procc and both WW and BT is on CD, in that case I can pop off 2x after eachoter.

Keep in mind that GCD is reduced after each pop of Slam and Slam procc duration is extended to 8 sec, which is a full WW CD.
During those 8 sec's you should be able to get 2x BT, 2x Slam and probably a HS or two also unless you starv.

it's actually 5seconds normal. doubled on time so 10s.
anyway, it all depends, as long as you still prio bt - ww - slam. even in 277 gear, BT is critting the most, then ww, then slam.
sometimes the slams procs just go crazy, other times they dont.
BT - ww - slam - bt - slam - slam - bt - ww - slam , etc try not to delay any, it also depends on your connection, and in higher gear spamming HS constantly (i am on every fight in icc25 at least) slam procs come and go like no tomorrow, you just have to catch them.

[Vorz]

What I basicly do with procs is this:

BT > WW > Slam (if proc)

Which is easy to understand, at first I had to get used to the 'double proc'. But it aint realy hard to learn it since the time goes from 4 seconds to 10 seconds.

BT > WW > Slam

Now you should look at your Cooldown on BT, if it aint refreshed yet use your second slam, if its off cooldown just use BT > WW again, you should still have roughly 3-4 seconds to use that second proc.

BT > WW > Slam > BT > WW > Slam (proc #2) That's if the CD ran out on BT/WW

BT > WW > Slam > Slam > BT > WW. That's if there's still a CD on BT/WW.

Dont forget, even though the CD is only 1 second, its still better to push the Slam through for most dmg and use BT right after.

[Alianthos]

Dont forget, even though the CD is only 1 second, its still better to push the Slam through for most dmg and use BT right after.

About that i'm not sure, i need to check again. Delaying BT isnt good.

[Vorz]

That's what I'm doing atleast, might be wrong. But it seems only reasonable to use anything not on CD as soon as you can.

[Devlin1991]

There is the guildlines taken straight from the Spreadsheet.

Ill sum up each line.
(BT>WW>Free>BT>FREE>FREE) < for reference

1) Don't use 1.5s GCD slam if it will delay first BT, this slam would be in the 3rd FREE on the reference.
2) Don't use 1s GCD slam if it will delay first BT, this slam would be in the 3rd FREE on the reference and and least 0.5s into that 3rd free.
3) Only use a slam in the first FREE if you are going to lose it if you leave it till 2nd FREE (assuming you don't Delay the 2nd BT)
4) If the slam proc has enough time left that you can leave it till after 2nd BT then do so as using a slam in the first FREE delays BT slightly.

[Devlin1991]

What I have found with the 4X10 bonus is that slam almost can be added as a normal button to push in a rotation (feels like it is almost not a proc anymore). Having a double proc is great but hell I normally have it proc when it procs and right after it procs again so it is almost like an endless free slam. Just seems like it is almost always up.

wtb your RNG with bloodsurge.

I have really poor luck with it, or maybey I just don't notice when I'm having good RNG.

Idea start: 2set proc, STR proc from DBW, lots of lovely 4pc procs and normal bloodsurges to fill out my rotation.
My normal start: No 2set, Haste/crit DBW proc, 0 slam procs for at least 1/2 my initial CD stacking pew pew period.


Warriors imo are the New boomkin, our dps is so dependant on Uptime on 2-3 different procs that are all relatively low.

[Alianthos]

Ok, for those who don't mind reading up a bit, here's the part of EJ's Fury Compendium about Slam's proc uses. The TL;DR version is what Devlin said 2 posts above, basically.

A frequently asked question is when to use Bloodsurge Slams and when not to. In the rotational basis, these Slams are used in places that do not delay the BT-WW-BT pattern unless the proc (the actual Bloodsurge buff) will expire before you can use it. There are only a few unique locations in the rotation where a proc can occur and expire later if not used. These locations in the rotational timeline can differ depending on the player's lag and reaction time. The following are the three locations for slam usage which optimizes the rotational basis:

1. After the 2nd BT but before the point where if Slam was hit, its GCD would result in DPS loss from BT/WW delay.
2. Before the 1st BT in the next period if immediately after a critical ability or Slam which trails the 2nd BT if it will expire before the WW GCD in the next period is finished.
3. Before the 2nd BT if it will expire before the 2nd BT's GCD finishes.


This will not only minimize losses from Bloodsurge being overwritten, but also minimizes any losses from delaying BT or WW when Slam needs to be used. All rotations adapt on this principle. In a lagless (and 0 reaction time) environment, following these rules will create four variants of the rotational basis. A 8.0s period, two 8.5s periods, and a 9.0s period which are shown below.

<snip>

An 8.0s period would occur if a Bloodsurge Slam was not available after the 1st BT nor immediately before the 1st BT in the next period. The 8.5s period can occur if a Bloodsurge Slam needed to be used before the 2nd BT per rule (2). Due to latency, reaction time, and human error issues, these perfect rotations always become broken or stretched. The 2.5 seconds after the 2nd BT's GCD finishes is especially sensitive. The player must be able to react to a new proc and decide if it needs to be used right away or if it can be saved for the 1.0s space after the WW's GCD. A proper decision relies on when the proc occurred, either before or after what is called a time-intercept point, or intercept for short. Determining the exact intercept for a specific player requires a bit of math, which will be fully shown in later sections. It is basically derived from an equation using your reaction time, latency, the sum of two GCDs (BT and WW), the 5s Bloodsurge is active, the weighting of damage versus time between a Slam and BT/WW, and the chance Bloodsurge will proc again in the time elapsed. Without going through all the math to find the exact value, a good practice is to use a fresh Bloodsurge proc if it will not delay the BT more than a couple tenths of a second. If you do not have good latency or reaction time, then you can afford to delay BT more than this, else risk your proc expiring before you can hit it after the WW GCD. This is backwards, but remember these procs are only 5 seconds, regardless of how long it takes you to finish GCDs due to latency.

The best way to get a feel for the rotational basis concept is to practice. Spend a good amount of time on a target dummy going through the rotation. Follow the three rules posted above. Pay attention to when you get your procs, and how long of a duration they have left. Get a feel for what procs you can let sit, and what procs you must use. Having a specialized user interface can streamline the monitoring and decision-making process, which is discussed in section 16.

[ägaren]

it's actually 5seconds normal. doubled on time so 10s.
anyway, it all depends, as long as you still prio bt - ww - slam. even in 277 gear, BT is critting the most, then ww, then slam.
sometimes the slams procs just go crazy, other times they dont.
BT - ww - slam - bt - slam - slam - bt - ww - slam , etc try not to delay any, it also depends on your connection, and in higher gear spamming HS constantly (i am on every fight in icc25 at least) slam procs come and go like no tomorrow, you just have to catch them.

heh, this just hit me:
yes, originally WW is 10s. But who the heck goes Fury without useing the WW glyph?
WW as spell: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=1680
WW glyph: http://www.wowhead.com/item=43432

Conclution: both are right, but if one ever uses WW without the glyph... *something fun/mean/informative*