Dismantling ignorance, a thread of enlightenment.

[Powerogue]

Well, this thread is gonna end up locked.

unlikely, this would fit better as a sticky

[Caradinist]

Although Sulfuric is usually viewed as an enemy of the current expansion pack, this thread is well-made, articulate, informative, and is worth reading. Sulfuric may come across as an arrogant son of a bitch just by looking at the title screen, but if you read all of this, you will at least look at the situation from his perspective.


You people really ought to just take a look at it. Those who are complaining that "THIS IS ANOTHER GSCORE THREAD" keep in mind nearly every single other Gearscore thread was about a situation, and the raid leader in control being too strict for the run, concluding that gearscore is the enemy of all life.

[Viperdream]

Give up, even how hard we would want to see Gearscore banned.

It

Won't

Happen

Get over it

[sicness]

There are things in every community that are so mindbogglingly ignorant that just mentioning it tears the community in half. These issues deserve to be looked into examined and exposed for the nonsense that truly are and I am going to do just that for one of the largest problems plaguing the MMO-C community today.

GEARSCORE
What is this addon? Let's ask the author "GearScore is an addon for World of Warcraft that allows you to quickly and easily judge a player's level of Gear. GearScore represents the maximum potential for a player to perform. The higher your GearScore the higher your potential to heal/dps/tank. Remember however, that is is up to the player's skill to match that potential."

Simply put, gearscore is a tool created to address the problem created by blizzard in making gear nearly identical. Gearscore removes the need to load up a players armory, and speeds up the process of character inspection.

What is the perceived problem?
Clearly, just as human beings want to be known by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin so do world of warcraft characters and the number of their gearscore. What Gearscore does is assign a numerical value of potential output from a mathematical standpoint of what that specific character is capable of in the gear they are wearing. Players do not want to be simply classified into "do's" and "don't's" without taking their individual ability into account, something an addon can and will never be able to do.

Why is it ignorant to attack a tool like gearscore?
Gearscore will never get you invited to a group, nor will it get you denied access to a group that responsibility is and will always be subject to the whims and wants of the raid leader or raid assistants. Unfortunately the massive success of this game makes everyone expendable as they are immediately replaced and looked over thanks to the sheer volume of alternative players. Some raid leaders lack the time or desire to look into a potential invites ability as a player and who could blame them, this is where gearscore comes in to play in assisting a quick moderately informed decision.


So where does the hate come from?
Like most emotions, hate especially in this case is born of ignorance and the inability to separate cause from effect. In this specific case the hatred is born from being denied access to a group the player feels they should be capable of contributing to without problem. The denial of access to the raid group would be the effect in this situation. The Cause of the effect would be the discrimination employed by the raid leader. To combat or take issue with the effect of a cause is as senseless as attempting to plug a hole in a boat, by repeatedly bailing out the water pouring through it. Although the two are related, you must combat the source (discrimination by raid leaders) to effectively combat and hope to eliminate the symptoms (the future unjust denial of raid invites).

Summation
Gearscore is simply another symptom of player discrimination that has been part of this game and genre of mmorpg's since grouping was initiated. As long as two players have a different level of ability, there will be raid leaders determined to invite the better of the two. Recognizing that getting to know any given players actual skill when conducting raid invites is an impossible task given time constraints, knowing the average realm has around 15,000 players on it. To take issue and create gearscore hatred threads on this forum or elsewhere displays a massive failure at understanding the cause and effect interaction of this system. Furthermore to hate gearscore for 'denying you access to raids' is like hating your credit score for denying you access to a loan. These things exist for a reason, if they were abolished another form would arise because the reason they exist has not been addressed. To hate gearscore is to blame the calculator for showing a solution to a mathematical equation that results in you not being able to afford something you want.

Realistically and finally, wrath of the lich king is the easiest expansion so far to become geared enough for the latest tier of gear by casual means. If you're subjecting yourself to the method of raiding (pugging) that results in you being judged by what you're wearing there are two paths to take. Find another method of raiding (guild raiding) or improve your gear to their desired standards. I sincerely hope that anyone continuing to continue this idiotic tirade would take the time to read this, and understand the error of their ways.

You can't deny that gearscore has spread a new level of ego in the game that is completely unnecessary. You can always argue that without the addon you can simply look up players gear in the armory, however the addon has caused the spread of stupidity in thinking that gear is purely equivalent to skill level which is obviously is not. You can blame the community for taking the addon the way it has and not using it correctly, but you can't not blame the addon for causing the spread of it's misuse for a few very simple reasons. Players who normally would not care about said addon do care now either because they think the addon is necessary or they are influenced by someone who thinks it is. Also, there are no instructions on how to use the addon correctly, which would go a long way to help the community in using it correctly, so because of that you can't not blame the addon for it's misuse.

E-Peen
What is this term?
From urbandictionary "e - meaning online peen - short for penis A person's ego, pertaining exclusively to their online personality."

This is a rather crude and unattractive term, yet people continue to brandish it so I will further and more appropriately define it as pride.
What is pride? "Pleasure or satisfaction taken in an achievement, possession, or association"

What is the perceived problem?
The community has deemed it unacceptable to take pride in your accomplishments, and doubly unacceptable to do so publicly. This is the equivalent to bashing an Olympic athlete for doing press releases wearing their gold silver or bronze medals well after the event they earned them from was finished. Substitute medals and olympic athletes with football players and superbowl rings, or boxers and wrestlers with title belts. The community finds it offensive that the achievers of these goals take pride in their success and immediately attach the phrase "flexing their e-peen". It would be suggested that the community would prefer if anyone happens to achieve any of their goals, to do so quietly and to themselves and if there is a visual title gearing or mount attached to that accomplishment that it be removed or hidden.

Why is it ignorant to attack an emotion like pride?
Pride is inherent in the human condition and in psychological terms, Pride is "a pleasant, sometimes exhilarating, emotion that results from a positive self-evaluation." A common understanding of pride is that it results from satisfaction with meeting the personal goals set by oneself, such as those from reaching esteemed goals such as rank 1 gladiator, country or world first kills or the lesser forms of these goals (gladiator, duelist, faction and realm first).

So where does the hate come from?
Attacking pride or "e-peen" is effectively a display of jealously from the parties who have not achieved the goal in question, or have already achieved that goal and are reluctant to share it. People who act in this manner generally have not made anything of themselves or simply enjoy raining on an-others parade. Often the onlookers find a way to hate even the most innocent actions such as standing idly while away from the keyboard while wearing a legendary weapon or current optimal raid gear. An appropriate term to label these unhappy onlookers would be the current hip hop term "haters".

While this may be true in some cases, you can't simply lump everyone into a general category and claim that just because they attack someone's 'e-epeen' it means they're jealous. I get fucking sick of people who link achievements in trade chat just to show off, if I say they're meaningless that doesn't necessarily mean I'm jealous since I can already have the achievement myself. You don't need to not have the achievement to attack people who have an over-inflated ego due to thinking they're better than others in a video game. It's funny how you defend this ego like it deserves to be defended in some way, when it really doesn't at all as it has no real excuse and the people with it have no real validation for thinking they're better than someone due to a video game.

Case in point, I run into this inflated ego all the time, just because some people don't have it doesn't mean it doesn't deserve the negativity toward it that people project because of the 'eliteness' people like to show off in this video game. It is after all just a video game and has no merit for thinking you're so much better. You claim people in the community are ignorant, yes they are, especially the ones who think they're of more worth in a video game than other people are. I won't deny that better players are typically more fun to run with in the long run, but the arrogance that accompanies the majority of them is what kills this game, not an addon.

[Ghoti Sticks]

Very nice post; I was particularly fond of the segment on gearscore.

I do disagree, however, with some of the finer points of your assessment on “e-peen”. Perhaps it is not so much I disagree with you, but more that I consider different magnitudes of offenses when I hear the term “flexing e-peen.” I see nothing wrong with standing in your BiS gear. On the contrary, it would be absurd to expect one to remove their arguably enviable gear when entering public space. I truthfully don’t even consider that to be a demonstration of “e-peen” (I really do not like this term). When someone refers to e-peen , two instances come to mind that really irk me.

People trying to exert “PvP dominance” when they are undeserving of it: I often happen upon individuals who are under the impression that reaching 2k arena rating arena still conveys skill. I am OK with them being proud of their rating and even their reading it as a sign that they have more understanding of pvp dynamics than many others. I do not appreciate these players thinking they are the crème-de-le-crème or berating randoms. This isn’t BC; 2k is not impressive. At the very least, check to make sure the person you are trying to flame is not higher rated than you.

Because of this situation I have just described, I did not agree with your line:

People who act in this manner generally have not made anything of themselves or simply enjoy raining on an-others parade.

(1) I am rather pleased with what I have done in WoW. (2) When I play the part of the “hater”, my direct goal is not to diminish the sense of pride the player is taking from his/her accomplishments. I am merely trying to force perspective. Perhaps their behavior better falls into the category of “misguided e-peen flexing” or “general internet douchebaggery”

The other example of “flexing” that really perturbs me is parking large flying mounts in obtrusive places. These mounts are great, I understand that. I suppose it is unfortunate that Blizzard did not provide us with a better venue for showcasing them. This should be remedied somewhat (at least for PvPers) in Cata when PvP rewards ground mounts. In the meantime, I can not help but think of a player as tools when they try to exploit Dalaran’s mechanics and afk in an inopportune (from my perspective) area.

Anyways, I digress. Nice post. Good to have you back on the forum. Big fan of the avatar.

[Deleted]

There are things in every community that are so mindbogglingly ignorant that just mentioning it tears the community in half.

Did you mean things that people are ignorant of, perhaps? For a poster arrogant enough to claim that his/her thread delivers enlightenment, his/her apparent ignorance of the language being used is astonishing.

Grammarfail is a great way to open an all-knowing, patronising post. It really is

[Fornaw]

Using fancy words makes your nonsene not true.

You could have saved yourself all the trouble writing this subjective view if you would have started thinking after your 2nd paragraph:
GearScore represents the maximum potential for a player to perform. The higher your GearScore the higher your potential to heal/dps/tank.

Example:
I put on full 245 PvP gear as healer/dps/tank and go into a high level raid.
Another guy, same class, same role, same spec puts on full 245 PvE gear and does the same.
Both have the same gearscore, both should have the same potential according to your own words, as quoted.

Now tell me who will perform better ten times out of ten tries?

Nobody has ever claimed that GS is the most accurate measure of anything, sometimes though we need measuring tools which are quick and easy to use and we can sacrifice a little accuracy. I might tell you that the tree outside my office is 3 stories tall, how accurate is that? Does it need to be more accurate?

In the case of Gearscore the word potential is thrown around a lot. Really GS doesn't measure potential, it puts an upper bound on potential. Often enough that upper bound is all I need. I won't bring someone with an upper bound of 5k dps to an ICC 25 pug. In your example the same upper bound works for both players, that's the nature of upper bounds. I could make a less accurate upper bound, neither of them will do 100k dps, but this tells me absolutely nothing as nobody in game will do 100k dps. I could make a more accurate upper bound which would help me eliminate the PvP geared player but in order to do that I need to see the specific itemization of your gear, GS wasn't designed to do that because there is already a method by which this can be done (inspection).

[Deleted]

Sulfuric may come across as an arrogant son of a bitch just by looking at the title

Yeah, because after that the humility he displays really goes off the charts.

[Clicheman]

This thread is fun.

[xnickybx]

Smart post up until you compared some geek showing of his purple pixels to an Olympic athlete showing of his medals. Stopped reading there. One is actually an accomplishment, the other is not, take a guess which is which. But pretty much everything before that retardedness was spot on. Don't like gearscore? Don't pug or deal with it and certainly don't post on mmo-champ about it.

FYI I don't use gearscore or pug so this topic has no influence on my wow experience. But comparing a wow player to an Olympic athlete is fucking absurd. The credit score analogy was good though.

[Daljo]

Smart post up until you compared some geek showing of his purple pixels to an Olympic athlete showing of his medals. Stopped reading there. One is actually an accomplishment, the other is not, take a guess which is which.

Actually, both are accomplishments. One of those just takes more effort and dedication than the other, take a guess which is which.

This thread is silly and full of irony. I like bears.

[Garots]

Way to go Sulfuric, you again, go and make stupid threads.

[KeoDK]

that's a pretty shitty story bro, 0/10. this isnt' helpful in any way

[Creotor]

Smart post up until you compared some geek showing of his purple pixels to an Olympic athlete showing of his medals. Stopped reading there. One is actually an accomplishment, the other is not, take a guess which is which. But pretty much everything before that retardedness was spot on. Don't like gearscore? Don't pug or deal with it and certainly don't post on mmo-champ about it.

FYI I don't use gearscore or pug so this topic has no influence on my wow experience. But comparing a wow player to an Olympic athlete is fucking absurd. The credit score analogy was good though.

Both of them dedicated time and effort to achieving something. True, an Olympic champion probably did more, but that's about it.
So... in a universal prospect, a "geek showing off his purple pixels" is the same as an athlete showing off his medal. They're both demonstrating results of their work. The fact that you think an athlete deserves more respect is just an opinion, despite the fact that it's probably shared by most of the planet's population.

[sicness]

Both of them dedicated time and effort to achieving something. True, an Olympic champion probably did more, but that's about it.
So... in a universal prospect, a "geek showing off his purple pixels" is the same as an athlete showing off his medal. They're both demonstrating results of their work. The fact that you think an athlete deserves more respect is just an opinion, despite the fact that it's probably shared by most of the planet's population.

Is this a joke? Are you seriously trying to say that Olympians only do slightly more than what people in this video game do? Do you realize what you're saying here? Anyone who honestly thinks someone in this game deserves more respect than an Olympian is completely out of their mind, that may be an opinion but I'm pretty confident in saying that I'm not the only person who shares it.

[Ghettobeast]

I have been enlightened!

[Hendrixstorm]

Oh look, another thread about gearscore. Lo and behold, he made a bunch of thoughtful points that he may or may have not thought were original, even though they have all been stated about 1,000 times. Why can't people just let this addon die

[Dundebuns]

Godwins law has already been satisfied. Why are you guys even continuing?

[Thereign]

This has all been said before, but it doesn't make it incorrect.

[Fenixdown]

I do agree in part with what you say, sulf. Most of the "hate" doesn't come from the add-on and perception of self-value in itself, it comes from the people who abuse them.

Best examples I can use are as follows.

-People requiring incredibly absurd GearScore totals to do easy content. I have seen people (literally) asking for 5.4k for ToC10. I pointed out to this person that his odds of finding anyone willing to even DO ToC10 at a 5.4k GeraScore were near impossible, as at that gear level your gear has probably exceeded the necessity for any item from that instance.
-People using their GearScore number to show their skill. I once had a restoration druid who wanted to do ICC25 whisper me. He informed me that his GearScore was 5399. Now, I'm one of the many people that understands not only how the mod works, but how people tend to use it. So, I did further inspection on wow-heroes to find this person missing enchants on half of his items, improper gemming (intellect as resto = /boggle), and poor decisions on what items he was using. With that, I came to the conclusion I would not be accepting him for my ICC25 PuG. He then went off on a tirade about how he has 5399 GearScore and that I don't know how pro he is.
-People that use their accomplishments and hold them over others. BEST examples, among the many I could use here, are actually from yourself. You use your vast accomplishments in the game before your retirement as a measure of boldly stating that everyone else (expecially on these forums) is beneath your stature. That would be what I like to call "e-peen stroking". Video game accomplishments make you no better or worse of an individual human being than any of the rest of us, you are still a person equal to all other people in the grand design of the actual world.

I have no personal problems with GearScore or being proud of an accomplishment. It's when you don't know how to use said add-on or use your accomplishments to belittle and disregard the accomplishments of others that I DO have a problem with. SO, in summary, I do agree with you in the regard that there's no reason to blindly hate either terminology. There is, however, proper justification to hate those inadequate to handle them without becoming abusive.