Article: 25% Icecrown Citadel buff, Ruby Sanctum Heroic Loot

[Hethor]

Nice more 277 on casuals now

Heh yea, hopefully you'll be able to get some soon.

[Kenai]

Fix'd

In all seriousness, I think this is generally how people perceive "hardcore" players. I don't hate casuals. I like casuals and want them to succeed, actually. What I, and many people, don't like are bads. Bads are bad, and they are the ones that don't deserve tier or 264 gear. But I'll let you in on a little secret. Bads don't have to be bad.

I wish there were a better way to tell if bad people were bad. But as of right now, according to the only data we have to work with, "bads" are not beating ICC with ANY type of frequency. Not even on normal mode. Not even on 10 man normal mode.

I could understand some of the complaints more if people were stumbling through ICC in droves, but they just aren't. "If you haven't done *insert some random ICC HM* by now, you suck!" "If you disagree with my antedoctal evidence/opinion, you are a noob!" "Everyone is facerolling ICC and can't tell the difference from me when I sit in Dalaran!" I am not saying YOU are necessarily saying things like this, but you have to be seeing similar things in every newsthread too, right? It's total BS. There's no proof to back this up, and there never was.

I need evidence. I need information. That's not an outrageous thing to ask for, right? Proof of claims that these things are happening? I can be totally sympathetic of people who have qualms with the game because it's not what they like and want it to be different, even if I disagree. I cannot sympathize with people who make such outrageous claims as above and act like something *needs* to be done because of a problem that isn't there. It's a fallacy. It's annoying and stupid. If more people would admit to saying that they have personal problems with the game instead of acting like the game is broken because it's not catering to them, maybe they would have more of an audience instead of open hostility? I can't be sure, but it couldn't hurt, right?

[JohnnyTKF]

To Hoosiermama... BADS don't get free 264 gear and kill LK... Bads can't even run 25s (Because it's hard for them to organize them) without wiping at... Wait for it... Festergut!!! No, seriously :P If you ever check the "scrub" guilds in your server, you'll notice they won't ever kill LK 25 Normal. "OK" guilds will, because when the 20% buff hit on Stormrage, a lot of guilds that couldn't kill him did, and also got 3/12 HM on the first night (WoWprogress is a useful tool to measure it). So don't worry, no scrub will kill LK on 25, although they can always buy the run.

PS: To the dumbass who compared LK 10 man !! With BC's last boss... Shouldn't you compare LK25 HM with him? Cause 10 man is a joke in Wrath. You should wait for Cataclysm, and then ONLY compare 10 man HM with it.

Edit: Kenai explained it even better.

[Alraml]

I forgot that one encounter makes the game hard.

If 99.99% Hello Kitty Island Adventure could be cleared by Justin Bieber loving 6 year old girls, but that last .01% baffled all but the most experienced gamer, would you call the game hard? We need the other hard modes to be hard and not have the option to go back to normal mode because it devalues the hard mode. Can't beat it this week? Well then you can faceroll it on normal and pick up some abyss crystals and move onto the next boss.

---------- Post added 06-23-2010 at 05:59 AM ----------



Casuals have always been able to clear icecrown. If you can't clear it all in one week, you can extend your lockout.

I think what you mean to say is that now bads have a chance of clearing icecrown.

You'll find that 1-2 encounters being hard is the case for most, if not all RPG's. Final Fantasy games are a big culprit for this, the vast majority of the game is fairly easy except for Ruby Weapon, Ultima Weapon, Dark Aeons, Pennance, Yiazmat. I could go on but I won't.

[Einhander]

I've been playing WOTLK for just over 2 months now, I have all my T9 and a few frost badge pieces, but havent done more than rep grind in ICC. With the new 25% and soon to be 30% buffs I'll probably attempt to join a guild or pug a few runs now.

I havent raided since BC where boss fights stopped being fun and became heavily choreographed parades. I'm sure that there are plenty of you that love doing X to the boss for Y time, then moving to Z location and doing X again while avoiding Y and kiting/AOE'ing W.

Point?
Bosses are supposed to be epic, fun and challenging but there is a difference between challenging and a PITA.
While I like to see the content, I don't like what raids have turned into.

[Hoosiermama]

I'll let you in on another little secret. Bads don't have to have access to 264 gear. Its the raid leader that is willing to invite someone that is horrible at their class (as obvious by their fail gear and fail talent spec) and gives them gear that creates the problem.

LFM ICC 25 PST with spec and GS above 5.5k. Badge gear and welfare tier from VoA say hi! You can faceroll the first few bosses of ICC 25 and the raid leader won't care as long as you're making progress. They only look at people's performance when you start failing.

---------- Post added 06-23-2010 at 07:47 PM ----------

I wish there were a better way to tell if bad people were bad. But as of right now, according to the only data we have to work with, "bads" are not beating ICC with ANY type of frequency. Not even on normal mode. Not even on 10 man normal mode.

Any ICC pug you find is going to have bads in it. People that go, "Ooooh, Nibelung is really good!" or pick up everything they can from ICC25 to up their GS because that's what they think they're supposed to do. At least on my server, there are puh-lenty of people forgoing their tier sets completely in favor of the 264 badge gear and drops from ICC25.

---------- Post added 06-23-2010 at 07:56 PM ----------

PS: To the dumbass who compared LK 10 man !! With BC's last boss... Shouldn't you compare LK25 HM with him? Cause 10 man is a joke in Wrath. You should wait for Cataclysm, and then ONLY compare 10 man HM with it.

I think that was me ^_^

What Blizzard tried and was pretty successful at with WotLK was getting more players to "see" the end game boss fight. In BC, only 1-2% of the playerbase even made it into Sunwell. In today's game we have a lot more people seeing the end boss of the expansion whether it's on 10 or 25. Hard modes aren't content that people are barred from seeing, because they've already seen it on normal. An example:

Two years ago, only 2 out of 100 people could drive a car.
Today, 40 out of 100 people can drive a car. But only 2 out of those 100 can drive a different color car.

[Kenai]

LFM ICC 25 PST with spec and GS above 5.5k. Badge gear and welfare tier from VoA say hi! You can faceroll the first few bosses of ICC 25 and the raid leader won't care as long as you're making progress. They only look at people's performance when you start failing.[COLOR="red"]

Agreed, to a point. However, farming the first 4 bosses =/= farming all of ICC. And these bosses, including VoA, only drop some gear, not everything. You certainly won't unlock Hardmodes that way either (though I would understand a desire for a reskin of the hardmode gear so it looked visibly different. It *does* look a bit different, but not much)

Any ICC pug you find is going to have bads in it. People that go, "Ooooh, Nibelung is really good!" or pick up everything they can from ICC25 to up their GS because that's what they think they're supposed to do. At least on my server, there are puh-lenty of people forgoing their tier sets completely in favor of the 264 badge gear and drops from ICC25.

Agreed again! (to a point) Even on my extremely low progression realm, I have seen people with "placeholder" iLevel gear to stay high up in the character rankings until they actually got some similar iLevel gear. My main personally got burned by someone on my realm who did this, so I can attest to it.

The thing though, is any raid since Vanilla has always had bads in it also, so it hasn't ever been "better" in that regard (maybe even worse, since more people = higher % of people that can be carried since the raids were larger. I was not around in Vanilla, but a retired friend of mine had plenty of stories and videos to tell/show). If they are being carried, they are being carried by good people who choose to gear up the bad people, via gold dkp runs, mediocre guildies, inexperienced alts, whatever. These things are not exclusive to WotLK by any stretch of the imagination. Why has it been ok before now? I'm not sure I understand.

[lolipopp]

[Hoosiermama]

The thing though, is any raid since Vanilla has always had bads in it also, so it hasn't ever been "better" in that regard (maybe even worse, since more people = higher % of people that can be carried since the raids were larger. I was not around in Vanilla, but a retired friend of mine had plenty of stories and videos to tell/show). If they are being carried, they are being carried by good people who choose to gear up the bad people, via gold dkp runs, mediocre guildies, inexperienced alts, whatever. These things are not exclusive to WotLK by any stretch of the imagination. Why has it been ok before now? I'm not sure I understand.

I'm not saying bads didn't exist before WotLK. But the players pugging the first few bosses of ICC25 normal wouldn't have been able to pug any of the bosses in sunwell. Punishment for being bad in BC/vanilla was that you wouldn't be able to see the raid content. Now bads can go into ICC25 and get gear, which rewards them for playing that way.

I think you got your math-thing mixed up too. The % of players being carried doesn't change, just how large the group is.

[Amgyn]

I dont consider myself a bad, i know how to play, i've cleared most BC raids pre-nerf, but i havent defeated 10man putricide yet... the reasons that come to mind:

1) I dont particularly like to pug, so have to wait for guild to form a raid.
2) guild forms a raid once a blue moon, so i keep myself un-saved out of loyalty until sunday/monday.
3) on the night before reset, its all desperate last minute pug raiders and you can't be picky because all the 'good' players are saved... these pugs barely make it past saurfang.


I have no feelings good or bad towards the buff... i know the game is 'easy' to a certain extent... but the buff doesnt really HURT anybody. its not like your class got nerfed, or yyour counter-class got buffed... people will still drop group from a wipe off marrowgar (yes it happens)... people will still ninja log right after saurfang because thats all they can do for the day leaving the rest of the group to disband because nobody wants to get saved to a pug that might not even make it past saurfang.

anyway.. i'm ranting for no reason... its a game. just play the game.

[Brittany]

When I last checked 159 guilds world wide had killed heroic lich king 25 (mine included).

This says that pretty much everybody else needs a buff. I'm sure most of the "qq send out epixx in mailbox" guys are in that category.

If Ensidia kill a boss and turn around and say QQ Blizz, this is too easy, fair enough.
If you guys that can't get Putricide Heroic without at least a 10% buff say it, it has no impact.

[Arctagon]

I recall reading some Blizzard employee state the Ruby Sancum loot would NOT exceed the loot from Icecrown Citadel. It just did.

Don't get me wrong, I don't complain. It's rather awesome. 5-SECOND DANCE! : D

[Paladin885]

Now just have 5.7k+ Gearscore, and link Achievement. They will let you finally run ICC.

lol, all you need is 3k, what you talking about. Hell, my dk in ilvl 232 gear can do 10k on mob pulls and 7k on bosses. NOW I CAN DO OVER 9000!!!

[Swat]

This increase is too low I think 10% increases each week would be more satisfactory. My guild can only raid once per week and we havn't seen all the content yet I pay the same as everyone else. I should be able to see the Lich King Hardmode encounter but I can't just because I can't raid for 5 hours a day and skip work.

I think Blizzard needs to start giving out Frost Badges instead of Triumph badges in heroics.

I think they should also make more pets for the Blizzard store I enjoy buying them because they make my character unique when I am shoppping my capital city. I also think they should make paid class changer because I don't have the time to make several classes and I don't think thats fair.

I like though that they make 10 mans give the same loot as 25 mans because 25 mans just reward players with too much time.

I almost forgot about those talents. I like the secondary talents but I think there should be a third and forth kinda like my classes in Modern Warfare 2 I can just choose how I like to play when I join a raid - I think that makes the game fun.

I like the way the game is going though - vanilla was unfair, difficult and rewarded only people who put in tons and tons of effort I like how I get rewards similar to hardcore players when I can play for 30 minutes.

Also I like how all items are purple that makes me feel like the skilled player I am. That meany totalbiscuit can go to hell.

I dont agree with nothing but I lold big time reading this.

[kozzamuu]

This gona be 2 Easy :3

[will-papa]

NOOOOOO!!! D; o.O first /thread

))))))))))))))))))

[Manic_Miner]

This increase is too low I think 10% increases each week would be more satisfactory. My guild can only raid once per week and we havn't seen all the content yet I pay the same as everyone else. I should be able to see the Lich King Hardmode encounter but I can't just because I can't raid for 5 hours a day and skip work.

I think Blizzard needs to start giving out Frost Badges instead of Triumph badges in heroics.

I think they should also make more pets for the Blizzard store I enjoy buying them because they make my character unique when I am shoppping my capital city. I also think they should make paid class changer because I don't have the time to make several classes and I don't think thats fair.

I like though that they make 10 mans give the same loot as 25 mans because 25 mans just reward players with too much time.

I almost forgot about those talents. I like the secondary talents but I think there should be a third and forth kinda like my classes in Modern Warfare 2 I can just choose how I like to play when I join a raid - I think that makes the game fun.

I like the way the game is going though - vanilla was unfair, difficult and rewarded only people who put in tons and tons of effort I like how I get rewards similar to hardcore players when I can play for 30 minutes.

Also I like how all items are purple that makes me feel like the skilled player I am. That meany totalbiscuit can go to hell.

ahahahahahah!!! nice one right here

[Seveer3]

Nice of Blizz to give us (hunters) just 1 usable item in 10man RS and its useless for us, yay /sarcasm off

[FrantACs]

WTF is with you all elitistic pric?! Why shouldn't casuals get 277/HC gear? I don't have time to raid 24/24 7/7. I want to enjoy the game at its full rate as anyone else!