IMO Rated BG is going to cause more trouble

[Knighthonor]

Premades group for Rated Battlegrounds
We feel like 5-player dungeons are the kind of thing we can more-or-less randomly assemble and give you a reasonable chance of success. Even in that case, however, we make sure you have a tank and healer and look at gear and experience and that sort of thing.

Putting together groups for BGs is much taller proposition, especially when rating and epic gear are potentially involved. We want players to individually decide what kinds of classes and mechanics they need to be successful. We want players to decide what gear or experience requirements they are looking for. Most importantly, we want players to organize themselves -- we want you to decide who is the leader and / or what your strategy is, and we want you to have a mechanism for handling players who refuse to follow those goals, just want to argue, or are refusing to be team players. Randomly assembling groups would require many additional features, tools and rules that are very tricky to design in order to enforce these things. When someone else does the inviting, they can set the ground rules, and you can choose to live with them, challenge them or look for another group. It does require a little more work on your part up-front, but you'll have a much better experience in the long run.

I just dont see the point of Rated BG, if they require grouping.
Well maybe they are more balanced than Arena, but,,,,,,,,,,,, Shouldnt that reason alone, be throwing up Red Flags, as to WHY BLIZZARD DECIDED TO MAKE ARENA THE MAIN PvP FORMAT IN THE FIRST PLACE,,,,,,

The Problem I had with Arena, was the balance part. Yes,,,
But also the problem I had, specially back in TBC when early gear didnt have requirement ratings,
I had a hard time finding casual arena team mates to play with, since I dont have real life friends that play WoW with me, and my Guild War prejudice towards Ret Paladins back then, and they usually had high ranking members in the Guild Team.

I originally thought this Rated BG idea was Blizzard's way to allow BG Pug players to get Arena Points for the best PvP gear now in a more fair way. But clearly thats not what we have hear.

Now it is going to be much worst. Guilds will make PvP Groups made up of top ranking members similar to how Guilds formed Arena teams back in TBC. and unless you in a PvP Guild (Lol PvE server), you will likely be screwed trying to find members willing to join up for a PvP Pug. I had a Hard time on my server alone back in TBC, when I tried to form a BG Badge Exploit run groups. Now imaging trying to form a PvP group for Rated BG.

Once again Pug Players will get the short end of the stick.

Now also include the fact the Queue Times are going to be even more messed up. Come now!!, Random BG System and the removal of Badges killed many of the bigger BG. I mean, Blizzard was already trying to kill AV. Now both AV and IoC are dead on my BG.

This new change is going to seriously F*** up the BG queues. All the premades will leave Pug players with Longer Queues, and Less valued Gear.

Sorry for the long rant, but this must get out there.

[evrazin]

Scrubs who cannot bother doing some arena nor form a team for RBGs can still get their 175pts a week you know... Really man. Do you really want pvp to be as piss easy as pve? Keep the arena points to those who can at least lose 10 matches in a row... PUGs aren't penalised, scrubs are.

[Knighthonor]

Scrubs who cannot bother doing some arena nor form a team for RBGs can still get their 175pts a week you know... Really man. Do you really want pvp to be as piss easy as pve? Keep the arena points to those who can at least lose 10 matches in a row... PUGs aren't penalised, scrubs are.

And please explain to me what makes Pug BG easier than Arena and Premade?

Pug PvP takes the most skill out of all the instanced PvP games.

Why?

Because Players have to sometimes pick up for slack of other players, making random game changing events. Trying to organize a plan with random people is a tuff and skilled task, which makes it much more fun.

Like Listed above, BG are much more balanced than Arena. Arena rewards Class combos over Skill.

[Fergand]

PuG BGs are stupid easy... The way it's always been for me, get 2 or 3 good players and they'll steamroll the whole other team...

You're just going to have to get used to the fact that Guilds will be a bigger deal in Cataclysm than they were in Wrath... which overall is probably a good thing... There are casual guilds out there, and more will pop up to try to take advantage of the benefits in Cataclysm, if you want to play Rated BGs, join a guild that will work for you...

As far as terrible Queues go... Keep in mind Blizzard is doing Region Wide Battlegrounds, so you'll have an even bigger pool of players. and it's likely that there will be a lot of players running regular BGs while the rest of their 'team' is away/busy.

[Madus]

random people is a tuff and skilled task

Stop trolling please...

[Odyseas]

Scrubs who cannot bother doing some arena nor form a team for RBGs can still get their 175pts a week you know... Really man. Do you really want pvp to be as piss easy as pve? Keep the arena points to those who can at least lose 10 matches in a row... PUGs aren't penalised, scrubs are.

Im mainly a pvp player, been doin arena since s1. 2.2K achievements and stuff and i tell you this: ARENA SUCKS BALLS.
Im really looking forward to rated BG's. I hope that i will never have to play arena again.

---------- Post added 06-24-2010 at 01:48 PM ----------

PuG BGs are stupid easy... The way it's always been for me, get 2 or 3 good players and they'll steamroll the whole other team...

You're just going to have to get used to the fact that Guilds will be a bigger deal in Cataclysm than they were in Wrath... which overall is probably a good thing... There are casual guilds out there, and more will pop up to try to take advantage of the benefits in Cataclysm, if you want to play Rated BGs, join a guild that will work for you...

As far as terrible Queues go... Keep in mind Blizzard is doing Region Wide Battlegrounds, so you'll have an even bigger pool of players. and it's likely that there will be a lot of players running regular BGs while the rest of their 'team' is away/busy.

Since the matchmaking system will be similar to the arena one, you wont be fighting against random scrubs if you have a good team(i guess?). As for the importance of the guilds, im happy that blizzard finally gave the chance to PvP players to join a PvP guild and actualy profit from it. All the pvp guilds that i ve joined so far were full with 2k rated peeps arguing about whos the best, which one is the most OP class, and whos the one with the biggest E-peen.

Gief pvp guilds pls , PvE is such a serious business and i cant handle puging LK.

[Direshadow]

Arenas are flawed and have been for a very long time. PVP works best in large settings with large teams complete with objectives. It's just that blizzard has never offered a way for 2 teams to compete against each other before. In addition, there is no real point or drive to compete seriously in battlegrounds.

Soon there will be.

I look at rated BGs the same way I look at a Soccer or American Football game. A team who puts their heads together can create any number of winning strategies since each battleground has a different layout and objectives. Teams will need to work together and communicate with one another, as well as create game plans. The arena strategy of "focus down dat healer" no longer applies and opens up a broad range of ways to actually win a match.

For the first time ever you'll be able to set up matches with other teams, other guilds and with players who understand how each battleground works. While Arena will always have their FotM strategies, battleground teams will be forced to create new strategies and game plans to the point where its complexity far surpasses anything that Arena players will have to deal with. Sure you can be geared to the teeth with a 3000 rating, but can you execute a strategy with 14 other players effectively? Can you even create a strategy that has never been seen or used before? Can you manage a team of 25 players on the fly?

In fact, and I never thought I would ever hear myself saying this, I truly hope that Blizzard pushes the E-sports aspect of rated bgs because unlike arena, battlegrounds function more like a team sport. Commentators can actually commentate on what is happening in a way that is relevant to anyone watching.

I'm calling it right now, rated battlegrounds will be the big break that e-sports currently needs because even if you don't play WoW to begin with, watching a heated battleground match from multiple angles can be very exciting. Not only that, but you're able to root for an entire team, rather then one cocky nerd who advertises Mountain Dew.

If you want to roll into a battleground and just "pwn face" or whatever you want to do, then fine, you'll still be able to do that and even gain some reward. But for those who are serious about rated battlegrounds, and for those who want a truly team-centric experience, this is a god send.

It's the glorious return of pure pvp guilds.

Hopefully it'll shut up those cocky arena players.

[Deleted]

It's the glorious return of pure pvp guilds.

Hopefully it'll shut up those cocky arena players.

this , QFT, those guys do not fit in any team , to my experience they are all fucked up teens with a wide range of problems and talk even worse

anyway rated bgs will be fucking awsome and we will be finally able to do some pvp with friends without the limitation of "combos"

[Direshadow]

I swear every month it's something new with Arena players. One month it's.... "Shatter Stealth Combo" and the next it's "Tickle Berry Frost Boom Combo".


When your game's strategy boils down to "What class combos are popular this month" it screams failure.

I can't wait to see places like Arathi Basin or Strand of the Ancients become the hotbed of endless strategic planning. I can honestly see serious PVP guilds having meetings that are based around talking about the game plan for their next big match.

In a year or so, I want people to be talking about the "Voodoohoodoo" strategy that a single team captain made famous. I want teams to start creating playbooks or debating which game plan is the best for a certain battleground.

[Griefel]

How do you call 2x 1300 resi 30k hp resto druids defending a flag in AB, class < skill?

PVP guilds will actually make sense in the context of rated BGs.
Applying strategies in BGs will also make sense now.
Stacking certain classes over others will definitely be the agenda aswell.
And besides OP, Blizzard has stated many times that they are pro team play and not solo queued style play, and they tried to alleviate some of the problems of the latter system introducing the LFG system for dungeons.
If you like solo play imho, you should not be playing MMOs, there are pretty good single player games out there right now, and most of them are better than WoW in many ways, except ofcourse team play.

[CasualNoob]

Pug PvP

wut? RBG will be pugable. Blizz say nothing about "RBG teams" (like Arena teams) - you just grab 9/14 random ppl from trade, and join RBG. ofc, if you wanna be successful, you will need some kind of constant raid, like in PvE - there are PUG raiding and guild/hardcore rading.

[Direshadow]

How do you call 2x 1300 resi 30k hp resto druids defending a flag in AB, class < skill?

PVP guilds will actually make sense in the context of rated BGs. Applying strategies in BGs will also make sense now. Stacking certain classes over others will definitely be the agenda aswell.

I don't believe this to be true if your team is well balanced and knows each others' strengths. I also think that Blizzard will put some restrictions when it comes to team building. No more then a certain number of a certain spec, class etc. When you think of it, having a team filled with holy paladins seems mind boggling, but I'm 100% certain that Blizzard will do something to control it.

Once again it comes down to the sheer scope of how many people will be on a team. You can't control class stacking in 5v5 because the moment you say "no more then 2 resto druids on a 5v5 team", players have all kinds of ammo to fire at Blizzard, and restricting a team of that size just doesn't make any sense.


Also, battleground mechanics come in to play as well. You can have a team of all resto druid or pallies on your team and while they'll do amazingly well in one battleground, in another they'll do horribly in.

high resil resto druids aren't going to be able to do much in Strand of the Ancients. Can't heal tanks now can ya?

---------- Post added 06-24-2010 at 01:38 PM ----------

wut? RBG will be pugable. Blizz say nothing about "RBG teams" (like Arena teams) - you just grab 9/14 random ppl from trade, and join RBG. ofc, if you wanna be successful, you will need some kind of constant raid, like in PvE - there are PUG raiding and guild/hardcore rading.

You should check out Blizz' War Games post.

[Kabukage]

Stop taking things out of context OP, and start "reading&understanding" blue posts. If you still can't, then ask someone to explain it to you.

[Griefel]

I don't believe this to be true if your team is well balanced and knows each others' strengths. I also think that Blizzard will put some restrictions when it comes to team building. No more then a certain number of a certain spec, class etc. When you think of it, having a team filled with holy paladins seems mind boggling, but I'm 100% certain that Blizzard will do something to control it.

The impression that the blue post on the main page has left me was that there was total freedom in choosing your teams for rated battlegrounds. And no 40 healers in AV would not work for the same reasons 5 healers don't work in 5v5.
The bigger the team is, the harder the healing becomes when the whole team focuses someone, and the best teams will know to focus or get raped otherwise.

EDIT : about SOTA, defending flags? rings any bells? and besides rdruids have infinite CC w/o the chance of running into DR problems(cyclown/roots)

[Direshadow]

If Blizzard is pushing rated BGs as much as they say they are, then preventing class stacking would be in everyone's best interest. I'm sure you'll have lots of freedom, however, you just won't be able to make a team entirely out of paladins.

[Griefel]

I do not see how they can, from a technical point of view, make your wish happen.
And besides who would wanna stack paladins, make 5 man teams of a rshaman/holy pala and hunters or dps casters(non-dot ones).
And if you run into paladins, bring a disc priest, or better a holy priest specced for gheal or somefin like that.
Maybe you have seen 5 man ele shaman team in bgs? all they need to do is cast a lightning bolt/target each, give them a healer or 2 and buffs and you are unbeatable.

[Direshadow]

Specs will be restricted in BGs just like certain items or professions are restricted in Arena. Or how if you use rocket boots or use bubble when carrying the flag, it drops.

There will be balance when it comes to rated bgs, we just don't know what form that'll be in.

[Deleted]

just dont ban free action potion ty

[juzalol]

People who were succesfull in arenas will rule the rated BG's aswell.

TSG takes Farm
RMP takes BS
RLS takes LM
Dispelcleave takes GM
random spellcleave goes ST

It's the same as arenas... just with more players.
It has objectives! Yea... kill the 3 guys defending the place and right klick on the flag.

[aether99]

pugs have always gotten the "short end" but thats not a big deal really. because a preformed group is always going to have more control and coordination.

you say rated bg's will make things worse, for some it might, but for me it will become better. I didnt do arenas because i didnt like arenas, not that i was bad at them. ive always enjoyed battlegrounds more.