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  1. #41
    The Patient
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    I didnt play in Vanilla, but when I was running stratholme and ZG for mounts, I noticed that most of the loot was blue ... and I've already heard from people that played in Vanilla that epic really meant EPIC! I really wanted to feel that, I guess it will happen

    Epic loot is like nothing at the moment, because you can do HCs all day and get T9 ... how epic is that? No, its not epic at all.

    To be epic now means to have HC loot/legendary but still they made the legendaries quest rewards so you dont have to clear the raid everytime to beg it to drop when the drop chance is 1% or so...

    I really like this post and I really hope it will become reality!

  2. #42
    yes it does mean something and it is something to be proud of IF you got it from heroic mode bosses. So in fact, you were the one to miss the point of my post.
    I find people like you so hard to understand, seriously. You are so into this game I can't even comprehend your thought process and your moral views... and so stubborn.

  3. #43
    This sounds great. But they will have to make blues blues again and greens green. and also greys greys and whites whites.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by sicness View Post
    Why are so many people concerned with the color of the items? If heroics only dropped greens and normal raids dropped blues and heroic raids dropped epics you guys would love this and I have no idea why... it's just a color and is meaningless really.
    Whats the point of having colors if they represent nothing? In the old days you looked at the color, now all drops are purple and you have to look at itemlevel.

  5. #45
    Hah progression now is more like:

    Reach lvl 80 -> Heroics -> Newest Raid

    The flaw of the design is that normal dungeons aint worth doing, nor do you need to do em like in BC.

    It wasnt only a matter of heroics keys. Unless you were quite skilled you had to gear up in normal dungeons, but then all complained it was too hard and Blizz decided to drop the whole normal dungeon tier of PvE.

    What this will mean isnt that we'll be getting worse gear. It just means that blues will again become an item tier. Atm. a newly dinged lvl 80 will be full epic with achievement and all within a week at the most. Blue gear doesnt have to be bad (as stated above) but leave the epics for the real raids

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Ammikaameri View Post
    Whats the point of having colors if they represent nothing? In the old days you looked at the color, now all drops are purple and you have to look at itemlevel.
    That's my point though, why do the colors matter so much to people and why should they? Item level and the stats on them are what really matter, and while the color of the item can hint at it being better than others in the end it's really meaningless.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Coronius View Post
    I presume you will still be able to get gear through the emblem system in Cata, so how will that work? Are you only able to buy rare gear with emblems dropped by heroic bosses or what?
    Hopefully it will work out just as it did in TBC, there's a few items that's viable to use in your gear setup until you get a better drop from a raid. I'll take this as an example. As a rogue in TBC you could get the Nyn'jah tabi boots from the badge vendor, those pair of boots were one of your best choices in that gear slot until you reached Mother Sharaz in BT, But they were released during the ZA patch after BT was. And there was only one trinket available for purchase for melee.

  8. #48
    this isnt going to happen like good old times. ofc they can say they would like to restore epicness but its never going to happen if there is badge vendors around and content is easy as its now. Its diffrent story if badge vendor provides only blue items etc but lets see what blizzard has in mind ^^

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Azalu View Post
    Tres interessant :P

    Sounds more like TBC then, with the majority dropping blues and some of the harder end-bosses dropping an epic

    You do realise though that this is purely a cosmetic thing. There were a lot of iLevel200 blues that you could get at the end of Icecrown/Storm Peaks and in dungeons that were just as good as epics. Mark of the War Prisoner to name one, that was my DPS trinket for sooooooo long cause of the huge amount of hit it had
    No its not just a cosmetic thing. The 200 iLevel epics are better than the 200 iLevel blues. I'm just wondering if we are going to see blues with higher iLevel than epics, like blues with 219 iLevel, while there are still epics with iLevel 200 and 213. Could be something that would make people have to inspect eachother again to see whether the gear is good or not.
    You cannot bandage a bleeding target...
    Quote Originally Posted by Dinnerbone
    This gets my vote for thread of the month.
    If WoW was "just" a game, you wouldn't be in this forum.

  10. #50
    /cheer for Epic Epics...
    although i sorta see it happening like this: 4.0, Bads have blues and starter epics (Bads could get full epic in 3.0), raiders in part epics, Hardcore people are in almost Full epics, including BiS///4.1, Bads have some blues and some epics, about half each(Any Bads could nearly fill their Character with epics in 3.1)\\\4.2 Epics become a "lol" factor, item level takes over\\\and 4.3 i see it the same as 3.3 was, bads are in gear the average raider would be in at 3.2)
    Overall i'd rather this then the way Wrath was. P.S. I may be addicted to the word "Bads"

    Edit: (Im just gonna bring everything down to level 80 just to rationally scale) Lets say in Heroics, 187 ilvl stuff drops (Non-Heroic 80 dungeon nonfinal boss loot) from bosses and ilvl 200 blues from heroic end bosses rather then epics, and lets say for when ToC5 comes out, 200 blues/213 blues drop; Not epic, mostly just to show that you aren't "epic-d" out and you know your stuff... Chances are Blizz wont do this though, since people who NEVER raid wouldnt get Epics at all.
    Last edited by Sinea; 2010-06-24 at 08:06 AM.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabrissich View Post
    Protip: ZG was NOT the first raid in Vanilla. If we want to get Technical UBRS/Strat/Scholo were all "raids" I believe BRD could be 10 manned as well, but memory is fading...

    BRD, could be 40 manned :P
    Used to be how you got to Molten core

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by sicness View Post
    That's my point though, why do the colors matter so much to people and why should they? Item level and the stats on them are what really matter, and while the color of the item can hint at it being better than others in the end it's really meaningless.
    Don't think you've played in Vanilla or early TBC, you never looked at a guys itemlevels. You looked if he had enough epics, for example, a raid could require you having atleast 6 epics. Early WOTLK a naxx group required you to have the epic achievement. Then came the evil Gearscore crap, you won't even need itemlevels and most people don't even look at stats, just take what ever gives them better gearscore.

    And yeah, I don't think anyone is proud about their rare having 5 more stamina than an other rare, or their epic having 5 more stamina either.

    You could walk proudly in full epics, which were hard to obtain. WOTLK could be fixed by making most raid drops rare, and the really better ones epic, for instance the hardmode ones and the real endgame items.

    Epic used to mean its among the best for the level it required, now it means it might be good.

    No more "LFM RAID, HAVE ATLEAST 7 EPICS AND REST RARE"
    Now its more like "LFM RAID, HAVE 6,5K GS !"

    Even I've been forced to switch better items to really bad ones, just because they had more Gearscore, to enter raids.
    Last edited by Ammikaameri; 2010-06-24 at 08:07 AM.

  13. #53
    Queue the players that will go on and on about epics being too hard to achieve.

    It's going to happen, and I shall laugh when it does.

  14. #54
    it doesnt change anything except epeen meters, its just text colour. Old epics were far too powerful when it got to t2 and 3 especially and they wont allow it to overbalance the game like that again.
    so yeah, good for insecure people..no change for people who play for fun.

  15. #55
    Doubt it.

    As Kyiran says it will be the same pattern and blizzard will give people epics for very little effort no matter what the say here.

    However, though i sound very negative, i like the way the game goes as i get more and more casual myself.

    I like how i can get more out of the game in less time.


    What made epics so epic in vanilla had to do with the playerbase, back then players sucked and the content was less userfriendly(some call it hard, i don't agree). If we were given vanilla now we would have cleared it fast and easy and whined it was welfare epics anyways because we're so damn good at playing this game!

    New players now get a better welcome to the game and everyone gets help to have fun (and get epics). This rocks for blizzard and they make tons of money.

    I do think that blizzard knows very well what we mean when we want the epic feeling of vanilla back (not items but the game as a whole), but it appeals to a much smaller community of more dedicated players.

    I guess we have to stick with what the give us. which is if we think about it a heck of a game with endless of options to do and work on!


    Looking forward to Catalysm

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Ammikaameri View Post
    Don't think you've played in Vanilla or early TBC, you never looked at a guys itemlevels. You looked if he had enough epics, for example, a raid could require you having atleast 6 epics. Early WOTLK a naxx group required you to have the epic achievement. Then came the evil Gearscore crap, you won't even need itemlevels and most people don't even look at stats, just take what ever gives them better gearscore.

    And yeah, I don't think anyone is proud about their rare having 5 more stamina than an other rare, or their epic having 5 more stamina either.

    You could walk proudly in full epics, which were hard to obtain. WOTLK could be fixed by making most raid drops rare, and the really better ones epic, for instance the hardmode ones and the real endgame items.

    Epic used to mean its among the best for the level it required, now it means it might be good.
    I did play then, and I do know what you're speaking of, but again why should a players gear simply be resorted to looking at item color instead of level? Just to make it easier to see if he's bad or not?

    The funny thing is, the same thing went on in BC except people didn't care about it as much because not everyone was in t6 or t5 or even t4, so people had blues and greens on. But now that everyone has epics on people don't feel as special so they don't think that t8 or t9 is that impressive, when why should it be held to any less regard just because you can obtain it with badges?

    I have no clue where you got the idea of 'Early WOTLK a naxx group required you to have the epic achievement.' though, as I was actually late to get the expansion with my guild and the majority of us did it in blues with a few epic pieces and I didn't even get the epic achievement until 2 months of raiding naxx as the guilds main tank. Neither did you simply look at a players gear color in BC and judge whether or not he should be in a raid. Just because players abuse an addon doesn't mean epic gear is shunned because it's 'so easy' to obtain.

    The best gear is still hard to obtain, just because it's the same color as previous tiers and what 'casuals' can get doesn't make it bad.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Ammikaameri View Post
    Actually you are still missing it. The post is about epics being something to be proud of again, no matter where they are from. The fact someone is full epic should mean he is good/badass/whatever. Now you can achieve that status by doing just heroics.

    Not everyone checks from where an item drops. And nowadays no-one cares if item is epic or not, everyone just looks at itemlevel. Anything below epic is considered total crap nowadays.
    Are you even thoroughly reading my post? I'm saying the word HEROIC not gear from some shabby emblem vendor. And by the way you're talking you haven't done any of these hard encounters and that's a shame because if you had your oppinion would be totally different. I haven't said a word about doing "herp derp zerg" heroics bringing any kind of epic feeling as to achieving gear. And why would you be proud of the gear you have, isn't it the progress of certain raids that counts? So Ammikaameri have you done Death's demise, did you kill algalon 25 during the ulduar patch have you progressed in icc25 hc?

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetis View Post
    it doesnt change anything except epeen meters, its just text colour. Old epics were far too powerful when it got to t2 and 3 especially and they wont allow it to overbalance the game like that again.
    so yeah, good for insecure people..no change for people who play for fun.
    Read the posts I made on this thread earlier.

    And yes, it used to be better in the old days regarding this matter, even if a lot of other thins were horribly wrong. Having a better tier should make you better, not increase your stamina and strength by 8.

    ---------- Post added 06-24-2010 at 11:14 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nekrol View Post
    Are you even thoroughly reading my post? I'm saying the word HEROIC not gear from some shabby emblem vendor. And by the way you're talking you haven't done any of these hard encounters and that's a shame because if you had your oppinion would be totally different. I haven't said a word about doing "herp derp zerg" heroics bringing any kind of epic feeling as to achieving gear. And why would you be proud of the gear you have, isn't it the progress of certain raids that counts? So Ammikaameri have you done Death's demise, did you kill algalon 25 during the ulduar patch have you progressed in icc25 hc?
    As of wrath of the lich king, I no longer raid. Don't think it makes any difference, does it? Every single pvp item there is also epic, so you have to download addons (GS) or carefully compare gears to see which one has better, instead of looking that the other one has 5 epics and the other one has one.

    And still you missed the point. The colour should SHOW that its hard to obtain (and also mean its better than a rare). The badge ones could just be colored blue. The whole word HEROIC on items was a weird idea, in my opinion of course. What the heck, there are even blues nowadays that are better than some epics.
    Last edited by Ammikaameri; 2010-06-24 at 08:16 AM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by ThExPriDe View Post
    I find people like you so hard to understand, seriously. You are so into this game I can't even comprehend your thought process and your moral views... and so stubborn.
    Am i so into this game? if you mean raiding one sunday regular icc25 for like max 3 hours or less and doing some random pugs with friends, sure i'm into this game and i like it, that's why i play it :>. And what does anything that i said during that post have to do with my moral views? I just said that if you infact were raiding hardcore you are achieving what few others are and isn't that worth more then some silly epics? And if you have let's say that 2 handed sword from LK25hc doesnt that mean that you achieved something by getting that item and doesnt that item then represent that you achieved something epic? thereby EPIC feel

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Ammikaameri View Post
    And still you missed the point. The colour should SHOW that its hard to obtain. The badge ones could just be colored blue. The whole word HEROIC on items was a weird idea, in my opinion of course.
    But why? There's ilvl and the stats to look at to tell how good an item is. Why should they have to make the color of the item distinguish it more? You can look at a fully epic'd player right now and tell if they do hard modes or not just by looking at their ilvl, why should they make it differentiated by color as well?

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