ArP Hard Cap Frost DK

[kerwyn]

I can tell you now with 11/12 H ICC experience that the only fight you need CoI on is (H)LK. I think you are confusing festergut for rotface, but even on rotface it would be a rare occasion for a dps to be on CoI duty.

Shit, I meant saurfang, i'm just dumb

[Muraza]

Even on that fight you have boomkins doing typhoon and the shaman aoe knockback too. With a 25% buff ontop of it the beasts die really quick.

[Wingwraith]

I can tell you now with 11/12 H ICC experience that the only fight you need CoI on is (H)LK. I think you are confusing festergut for rotface, but even on rotface it would be a rare occasion for a dps to be on CoI duty.

I think you're overestimating your general audience. We have 11/12HM down, but we're the minority. The average person doesn't.
But that's neither here nor there, the point was that 3/12 tank-n-spank fights doesn't make a majority.

[kumduh]

To be completely honest, I don't see why people include LK in the list of bosses that include aoe. Yes, there are adds but for the most part you're really only focusing on 1 target at a time. Anything that's taking aoe damage probably isn't a major priority.
In p1 if you're using howling blast you're not maximizing damage on LK. Let the ghouls die to diseases/ret pallys/warrior cleaves. If you're eating through RP so fast that you get to use rime procs, use AMS every 45 seconds to eat infests.

In p2 there's generally only 1 raging spirit up at a time.

In p3 there's 3 valks, and you could either howling blast all 3 if they're stacked up or focus on one and obliterate. I've always been assigned a specific valk to focus on, so I typically haven't done much aoe in this phase.

Then you go back to the raging phase.

Then there's the Frostmourne room where you're basically running around while the ranged do all the work. sure you might get off a howling blast here or there (if something gets in 20 yards) but for the most part that phase is dependent on the ranged classes.

And finally, the vile spirit phase, where again, you just sit on LK and beat the crap out of him while somebody soaks all the spirits.

[Shiira]

What would you possibly want chains of ice for on rotface, the big oozes already only barely move faster than walking speed.

[Muraza]

I think you're overestimating your general audience. We have 11/12HM down, but we're the minority. The average person doesn't.
But that's neither here nor there, the point was that 3/12 tank-n-spank fights doesn't make a majority.

I am just trying to express that with extensive experience in ICC I can vouch that there are no longer any fights where it is necessary for a DK to have the job of CoIing during the fight, except for (H)LK.

[linusivar]

should not be hard to reach 16k dps anyway in good gear with 25% buff in icc, if you have decent gear

[Noxia]

That's really not all that accurate, especially in the manner you're alluding to. (100% time on boss.)
The only tank-n-spanks are Saurfang, Fester, and Rot if you're lucky and aren't on chains duty, get spores, or slimes.
3/12 doesn't constitute "most" in my book. All the other bosses have significant time off the boss, adds to deal with, and so on, and in a lot of these cases Str is going to be more beneficial than ArP.

So you're doing major aoe on marrowgar, putricide, bql, princes and sindragosa or what? What has significant time off the boss got to do with arp vs str? It's not like we're discussing sigils here.

[Shiira]

Strength becomes relatively better compared to arp when you spend time off the boss.

[Wingwraith]

I am just trying to express that with extensive experience in ICC I can vouch that there are no longer any fights where it is necessary for a DK to have the job of CoIing during the fight, except for (H)LK.

That's completely true... For YOU, and those at YOUR level. But you (we) are the minority and you're not accounting for that in your blanketing statements.

So you're doing major aoe on marrowgar, putricide, bql, princes and sindragosa or what? What has significant time off the boss got to do with arp vs str? It's not like we're discussing sigils here.

No one said anything about significant AOE. I was supporting MPH's statement (below) which is essentially the same as what Shiira just said (above).

Since our top #2 damaging abilities are white hits & Obliterate, yes, ArP is quite sexy. But strength is still sexy too.

Which is why people tend to get confused: surrounded by two insanely sexy things, and they need to choose! One sexy thing makes them really hard, but only if they work on one thing. The other sexy thing makes them strong, and enduring, and allows them to work on multiple things at once, while still being able to perform well against only one target.

[Offhand]

ArP is only worth gemming near the BiS level of full 277's. So unless you're working on your second H:Havok's Call you should stick with strength.

Signed: An alt DK that's pissed that he's still stuck with 251s.

[Wingwraith]

Anyway, any links/relevant answers appreciated. Kthxbye.

Um... why don't you start w/ reading this thread? Your question has been answered several times. Hell, the post right above yours from Offhand answers your question... <facepalm>

[Wingwraith]

That's what spreadsheets and sims are for

Exactly, so start using Kahories and you be able to figure out if ArP is appropriate for you. Looking at someone elses sim isn't going to help you because you don't have their gear.

And that's not even what you asked for. You asked, and I quote, "is this assuming 264+ gear in all relevant slots?"

Well... Offhand answered that specifically... "ArP is only worth gemming near the BiS level of full 277's."

[Apostolic]

Actually ArPen is better when it passes Point for Point over strength. IE Sim yourself and if ArPen > Str, then Gem ArPen. If not stay with Str. If you had BiS 264 Gear with the correct ArPen pieces, then ArPen may be better for you.

I guess the whole point of this thread is.... GO FKN SIM YOURSELF AND THEN DECIDE.

[Wingwraith]

Actually ArPen is better when it passes Point for Point over strength. IE Sim yourself and if ArPen > Str, then Gem ArPen.

If you're referring to the EP values, it doesn't quite work that way, it's not that simple. Your EP values are how much everything is worth right now if you were to add a little bit more.
If you remove 300 Str in gems to replace them with ArP gems, then all your EP values will change.
The best way to tell is to use the normal dps part of the sim. Add up all the gems you'd replace and run 2 sims; one with the Str gems and 1 with ArP gems and see which produces higher dps.

[kerwyn]

Actually ArPen is better when it passes Point for Point over strength. IE Sim yourself and if ArPen > Str, then Gem ArPen. If not stay with Str. If you had BiS 264 Gear with the correct ArPen pieces, then ArPen may be better for you.

I guess the whole point of this thread is.... GO FKN SIM YOURSELF AND THEN DECIDE.

When I was going for ArP hardcap blood I had hit the point where the EP value for ArP was higher than strength, but not high enough. Re-running the sim with ArP gems resulted in a DPS loss because my strength without gems wasn't high enough to net a gain.

So make sure sim yourself in full ArP gems before you regem it because it may not actually gain you anything.