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  1. #21
    Raids are the best they've ever been.

    MC, BWL, AQ, old Naxx.... These were hard but not very complex. 5 man bosses are more sophisticated nowadays than Raggy was. The current holiday boss is an icy version of Nefarion.

    The old raids were hard for two reasons: 40 people, and people were still new at the game.

    With 40 people, you inevitably have deadweight. Leechers people brought along to fill up the rankings. My own guild leader admitted to often sitting back and wanding. With 40 people, an individual didn't have to try. And they didn't.

    Second reason is self explanatory.

  2. #22
    Herald of the Titans RaoBurning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macke View Post
    Casusals should not have acces to Legendarys.
    Legendaries; plural.

    Secondly I'm seriously hoping you're one of the many who confuse or interchange "casual" with "bad". Just because somebody puts in a little less time per week doesn't make them bad players and by no means should exclude them from a damn thing. We all have to run the same content to get the same gear; which is to say if I want heroic gear I have to do heroic bosses, etc. So what if it takes some folks a little longer than others?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    This is America. We always have warm dead bodies.
    if we had confidence that the President clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said that.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by macke View Post
    A pug on Outland killed Putricide 25 HC today, 2 shot.

    Gogo cant wait for them to prove how easy ICC really is aka Sindragosa HC.
    So, it's bad that a "PUG" killed HC Purtricide today? A PUG (most likely) comprised of players who have already seen the content, are probably from already progressed guilds, and are generally above average players. Seriously, does the word PUG instantly make a raid group bad? I swear, if I saw a "OMG A PUG KILLED 25HC ARTHAS!!! TOO EASY!!!" and all the raid members were from guilds that had already cleared that content, I would just knock my nose through the back of my head with the amount of facepalming at that comment. Just because good players can PUG content does not mean it's easy. They don't lose all their skill and raid awareness just because everyone doesn't have the same guild tags as them.

    For sure, if it was a PUG made up of 25 people who haven't ever seen heroic Putricide, they would have had an awful time getting rolled all damn day. And as a side note, the first time guilds see these encounters they end up getting rolled. Therefore, you can easily tell that it's a PUG filled with experienced players.

    Oh yeah, and 25% bonus to everything usually promotes room for error.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by macke View Post
    Where did I say that? I said that a yea, half PUG killed Putricide HC, the second 'hardest' encounter in ICC.

    People keep saying how awesome ICC is while myself I think its a pisspoor raid. Its stairs with trash on them.
    And yet you have only your opinion as proof, as less people are doing these "easier" encounters than the hard ones of the past

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by hksin11186 View Post
    Legendaries; plural.

    Secondly I'm seriously hoping you're one of the many who confuse or interchange "casual" with "bad". Just because somebody puts in a little less time per week doesn't make them bad players and by no means should exclude them from a damn thing. We all have to run the same content to get the same gear; which is to say if I want heroic gear I have to do heroic bosses, etc. So what if it takes some folks a little longer than others?
    I never said that just becuse you dont have time to raid as much as evryone else your bad. Theres a big diffrence between Epic and Legendary, you should really figure it out yourself. And if you spend a little less time your not casusal, casual is somoene who logs on 2 - 3 hours / week and plays, stop using it as a lame excuse. Also I raid 2 - 3 / week max.

    And if Im not wrong Blizzard said Heroic mode = Harder and Normal mode = For evryone?

    Blizzard failed big time with ICC.

  6. #26
    Herald of the Titans RaoBurning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macke View Post
    I never said that just becuse you dont have time to raid as much as evryone else your bad. Theres a big diffrence between Epic and Legendary, you should really figure it out yourself. And if you spend a little less time your not casusal, casual is somoene who logs on 2 - 3 hours / week and plays, stop using it as a lame excuse. Also I raid 2 - 3 / week max.

    And if Im not wrong Blizzard said Heroic mode = Harder and Normal mode = For evryone?

    Blizzard failed big time with ICC.
    Perhaps I read too much into your initial post and superimposed my distaste of the casual=bad interchange into it. My apologies. However I still find your "Casuals shouldn't have Legendary items" line to be arrogant and founded in some labyrinth of logic that I cannot decipher. By your own admonition of play time you'd fall under your own definition of casual. So you don't think you should be able to pursue some of the best items available? Unless I missed something, of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    This is America. We always have warm dead bodies.
    if we had confidence that the President clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said that.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Chimpzilla View Post

    If you're not having fun quit.
    Pretty sure this sums up the whole argument...

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Izenhart View Post
    You call having only 1 people out of 10 able to do Valithria25 HM easier?
    1 people out of 10 able to do Saurfang25 HM?
    8.38% of all the WoW base population being able to do Lady Deathwhisper25 HM easier?

    That's nowhere near "easy" in my vocabulary.

    Yeah fine, you see relative-casuals with Kingslayer and 264 gear...so? Does a title and some epics means everything's easier?

    Even HM Marrowgar25, a ridicolous boss, has been done just by 17% of the guilds in the world.

    Even the 25men HM Val'Kyr Twins has been cleared only by the 12% of the guilds of WoW.

    I mean, jesus christ, ONE YEAR after it was actual content, Firefighter, as known as Mimiron25 HM, has been done by 6% of the guilds.

    Nothing in here seems to legit this "easy modeness".
    I think we have a winner.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Blonk View Post
    Zarhym, 11/18/2008:



    Filibusters of excuses such as this regarding the simplification of the game have been progressive for about two years now. The above quote recently caught my attention and peaked a curiosity of how much they are willing to be dishonest or flat out rude with their original customers for the sake of an easy buck. When overwhelming evidence was presented that the game has in fact been cut down substantially in difficulty, blues were rather quick to admit raiding is now for less skilled raiders and in rare occasions even go as far as mocking those upsets with the change.

    However, the story changes again.

    Recently, nigh of a new expansion and a chapter of huge income to Blizzard Entertainment, their motives shift -- in theory. They claim a major change in a badge system (seen here) that appears to be an old face with a different name, the increased difficulty to Cataclysm raids, and recently, the revival of epic items.

    It is one thing to litter your product for the sake of majority rule and profit, but it's another thing to shit all over the portion of players that have been dedicated subscribers and participants in all content, good and bad, then smile sweetly back at them when they have some potential cash to throw into corporate pockets.

    I guess this is more of a diary entry. No one seems to agree anymore.
    What a waste of good paper your ramble would be.

  10. #30
    QQ more OP. QQ more.

  11. #31
    Immortal seam's Avatar
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    So wait, you are mad that it went casual. Got that.

    But you are also mad that they are going back to how it used to be?


    What?

  12. #32
    for my server, things are finally getting easy enough for people to clear past the first wing of ICC. if the game gets easier, all the best. if the game gets harder, i'm switching servers to where i'm not surrounded by concentrated PUGfail. o_O
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  13. #33
    That blue post makes me happy, Blizzard has the right approach to these "game too easy" complaints and sees the obvious problem with them right away.


    Also, is that post really from 2008? Why are you quoting it now of all times? I'd understand if there was a recent post similar to it and you were then trying to say he's been making the same "excuse" but nope.
    Last edited by Snebbles; 2010-06-27 at 01:34 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    You are correct that a lot of players moan about things being too easy without having seen the content personally. We definitely place less emphasis on their feedback than on people who have actually tried those encounters.
    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...=1&pageNo=4#72

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebored View Post
    You've confused yourself into believing that the game becoming easier is a bad thing.
    Games are for fun, not your personal online glory.

    They spent who knows how many hours creating Naxx40 only for what 1%? of the players to see it. They created this game for people to play it, not to suffer your inferiority complex.
    This. They are not making the game easier; they are making it more accessible. They are making it more about fun.. enjoyment.. something you want to spend your time doing because you enjoy the content and not because you feel obligated to do it for the best loot or because you reeeally need to stroke that e-peen in front of the unprivaleged masses. That is a beautiful thing.. something I wish all online games took notice of.
    "You hurt me long ago; my wounds bled for years. Now you are back, but I am not the same."

  15. #35
    I'm so glad I have the internet to tell me that I'm not really having fun.

    You need to turn off all the shit you hear and just think about the actual game. Never once have I felt like my enjoyment of raid (for progression clearing anyway) was diminished by a raid being too easy. People being impossibly retarded, yes.

    I had a real epiphany while reading some of the rage about Starcraft II (lan, chat channels, user-generated content, etc) and I got really worked up. Then I asked myself, was any of it really going to affect how I was going to play the game? Nope. I was stirring up righteous fury based off of things that did not directly affect me.

    My suggestion to you is to not worry about how hard you think the game is or was or will be. If you're enjoying yourself great, if not, quit.
    Your comments are duly noted and ignored.
    I punch a hobo every time someone says 'it's not a rotation it's a priority list lol'.

  16. #36
    Ehem... If you havent killed LK 25 heroic without the ICC buff you have no right to complain... At all.

    So, have you?

    *waits for fraps*

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by macke View Post
    A pug on Outland killed Putricide 25 HC today, 2 shot.

    Gogo cant wait for them to prove how easy ICC really is aka Sindragosa HC.
    During TBC a pug on my server used to clear 5/6 SSC, 3/4 TK, 4/5 MH and 8/9 BT. They clear those raids every week. But you know what? They were the best players on the server from the top guilds. One of the players got pissed on the RL and started his own PUG run. He went to clear 5/6 SSC, 3/4 TK, 4/5 MH and 8/9 BT (I was a part of this raid).

    It's same way in WotLK. Players from top guilds make alt raids and clear content.

    You say there is a PUG on Outland that 2 shotted PP25hc? Well, on Ravencrest there is a PUG that cleared 11/12 icc25hc and they one shot every boss. They have been doing this long before the 20% buff was implemented in ICC. On Auchindoun, there is a PUG that cleared 11/12 icc25hc and one of the guys in that raid got Shadowmourne through that very same raid. There is another alt raid on Auchindoun which is 10/11 icc25hc. But then again, these are highly skilled and geared players who already know the encounters through their mains. (I am in 1 of these raids but can't give any furthur info on it, sry.)

    These PUGs existed during Ulduar and TotGC.

    Most of the time they use vent too.

    This is totally normal and has happened since TBC, I am not sure about vanilla because I didn't play back then. But I guess the endless, boring and repetitive grind wouldn't allow something like this during vanilla.

    All of these PUGs don't give a flying fuck about anyone from /2 or players from guilds that have no heroic experience (in TBC no T5/T6 experience). Unless the it's the RL or a close friend of the RL.

    Playing an alt doesn't make you loose all your knowledge about encounters. If you're skilled, know how to play your alt, have some experience, and know someone who have similar interest in clearing content like you do, it becomes insanely easy to create these runs or be apart of them.

    Once again, these players are highly skilled, highly geared, experienced and 95% of the time they know the encounter and know what to do in their position. They also know each other very well and are very cool minded people. Meaning if wipes and mistakes happen, they don't act like a bunch of retards on vent/chat, unlike normal PUGs.

    How about this. You go and spam 'lfm icc25hc' in /2, pick total strangers (REAL PUGs) and see how many bosses you kill in icc25, even on normal. Come back and let me know how many bosses you killed. If you kill a lot, I would like to join on my 3rd alt (Can't find a decent and stable PUG on it).
    Quote Originally Posted by Culnar
    Sometimes people act like blizzard is their friend who betrayed them and now they're pissed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulpei View Post
    Actually the backlash from pandas is because alot of the people didn't grow up.

  18. #38
    Dreadlord Zzeke's Avatar
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    Just because they are PUG members, doesn't mean they don't have any idea how raiding works. Even people picked up in raid chat know what they are doing, especially on low-med pop servers.

  19. #39
    Immortal Clockwork Pinkie's Avatar
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    Everyone's so angry in this thread

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Naidia View Post
    Everyone's so angry in this thread
    "Angry...? ANGRY??!?!? WHAT THE FUCK NO ONE IS ANGRY HERE FAR OUT! HAVE YOU BEEN READING THIS THREAD?!?!? NO ONE IS FUCKING ANGRY WHERE DID YOU GET THAT IDEA?!?!?" whispers Protspecd

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