Soloing Nax bosses

[sp2danny]

If you solo or 2 man 3 man w/e Flame leviathan you get banned now explain how the rogue shouldn't be banned using that logic which is blizzards.
...
It was in a blue

Here is that blue:

Now, an important point:

Action was never taken against Flame Leviathan killing accounts based solely on the number of players present during the fight.

There was a (now hotfixed) exploit that made it possible to trivialize the encounter and subsequently beat it with far fewer players than would be legitimately possible with the gear currently available in-game. This exploit was deemed to be contrary to the essence of the World of Warcraft, and action was therefore taken against those who were found to be abusing it. If you fought Flame Leviathan legitimately, simply with less than the maximum number of players present, you would not be included in the above group.

important part in bold.

[Dethh]

Let me explain what the bug was

Since you only had 2 players they would use 2 vehicles and stand at the farthest part of his rectangle shaped perimeter (Diagonal from each other)This is the longest PATHING ROUTE for the boss. What would happen is the boss would pursue one person and by the time it got to them it was done and would target the next person which was across the room since there was only 2 people. Basically resetting the pursue timer just before attacking the player and then resuming the pathing route to the other player. Now is this exploiting? If you only have 2 people the mechanics will go back and forth targeting and pathing. Now if you did it with a digrat and shadowstepping its ok I guess.

After re-reading the blue post you pasted It could be directly applied to what the rogue did.."trivialize the encounter and subsequently beat it with far fewer players than would be legitimately possible with the gear currently available in-game."

[Sethbob]

I agree with OP. It's no achievement, don't think he should be punished. Hotfix it for sure, though.

[Dethh]

Oh let me add I don't think he should be punished but then again I don't think the FL exploit ppl should be banned either. If you ban one though you must stick to this rule.

[Varaben]

He did something thought impossible. Yes he exploited mechanics to some extent, but he also used his brain in figuring out how to do it.

I heard using your brain means its not an exploit.

[Crosis]

As mentioned in the front page thread. What he did wasnt skillful, you might think it is but it really isnt. Its about timing and abusing pathing etc, hencing why he can only do it with 2 bosses in the instance. Personally as i said before i dont think he should be banned, but he also shouldnt be praised because it is exploiting you can try to manipulate it as much as you want but its exploitation plain and simple.

Most people are just mad it seems how much attention he is getting from something not impressive or noteworthy and im sure he or his "followers" messaged boub to put it up and boub figured what the hell and put it up anyways. The kid is just arrogant to say the least he thinks hes a god from the way he talks/acts for doing something that doesnt make you go WOW. Example of something that made people go WOW was: The first 3 drake sarth rush video where they downed him before the first drake landed. Now that was impressive because at the time the gear wasnt insane and it was pretty surprising to see get done.

[Mackeyser]

Let me explain what the bug was

Since you only had 2 players they would use 2 vehicles and stand at the farthest part of his rectangle shaped perimeter (Diagonal from each other)This is the longest PATHING ROUTE for the boss. What would happen is the boss would pursue one person and by the time it got to them it was done and would target the next person which was across the room since there was only 2 people. Basically resetting the pursue timer just before attacking the player and then resuming the pathing route to the other player. Now is this exploiting? If you only have 2 people the mechanics will go back and forth targeting and pathing. Now if you did it with a digrat and shadowstepping its ok I guess.

Actually, NO, that wasn't the problem at all. You totally missed it. The Blue expressly stated that using this tactic if two vehicles and kiting WAS allowed and it wasn't a problem. The bans were handed out due to explicit exploiting, NOT using the room's hypotenuse to one's advantage.

As a matter of fact, using the Pythagorean theorem, you can easily scale that same tactic from 2 vehicles to a full compliment of vehicles such that NO ONE takes melee damage at all in the fight. It's rather easy, actually.

The number of players isn't and wasn't the issue. Players to this day still go in and 4 man FL or do the weekly on 25 man with less people to gear lowbies.

There were OTHER exploits out there. This weren't it...

edit: the Shadowstep/digrat would probably be addressed if this were current content, but Blizz likely realized that they needed better boss tethering/rooms with locks to avoid this sort of thing anyway. The FL fight is nothing like this because ONE player is able to using a unique ability, effectively teleport to another section of the boss' path without dropping agro, thus not resetting his health pool. Rather than mess with shadowstep coding, they just need to keep bosses in rooms with locks. And if you vanish then, the boss resets...problem solved.

[Dethh]

Actually, NO, that wasn't the problem at all. You totally missed it. The Blue expressly stated that using this tactic if two vehicles and kiting WAS allowed and it wasn't a problem. The bans were handed out due to explicit exploiting, NOT using the room's hypotenuse to one's advantage.

As a matter of fact, using the Pythagorean theorem, you can easily scale that same tactic from 2 vehicles to a full compliment of vehicles such that NO ONE takes melee damage at all in the fight. It's rather easy, actually.

The number of players isn't and wasn't the issue. Players to this day still go in and 4 man FL or do the weekly on 25 man with less people to gear lowbies.

There were OTHER exploits out there. This weren't it...

No the pathing was the exploit plain and simple the amount of players wasn't because of what you just said you could position the raid this way and guess what if you do its an exploit according to blizz even if its a full 25 thats why the SOLELY part is in italics in the blue post.

[JustintimeSS]

First of all Im not mad at this guy for doing it and Im not hating on him for it either, I could really care less. But face the goddamn facts here, he exploited something, regardless of reward. It is in the TOC and despite everything that is being said, exploiting is exploiting. Do I care if he did it or not? No. But there is no reason to argue about if it is an exploit or not to abuse pathing mechanics, when it obviously is.

[Ryuuji]

God damn Rogues actually being able to solo something for once through hours of flawless work, and only being able to solo something through clever use of game mechanics and a small exploit using an in game item.

BAN THEM ALL, I SAY.

[DerSenf]

I stopped reading after the forth time someone in this thread said "OMG he abused game mehanics!"

Yes, he did abused them, no doubt. But even with this exploit, it is very hard to do it sucessful.
I'm not only talking about perfect management of cooldowns, bosstimers, movement but rather to maintain all of that in a fight that lasts almost three hours (or in case of Patchwerk even more than five). It takes an increddible amount of concentration.
Also, as someone that aprieciates effective ideas even if they are odd, i smiled the first time i heard/saw his "Jider Step", even if the whole thing is a big mechanic abuse, he carefully made up a plan in his head to beat two raidbosses that no other class is probably able to solo at the moment and took every possible option into account - in this case: a random drop from a level 1 critter in the barrens. You can love it or hate it, but you have to admit that he thought about something that no one thought about before.

And why are people angry at him? Do you think he has any advantage now, because he showed this? Do you actually think he now "farms" Patch and Grobby every week? I don't think so, and even if he did, which would be ridicules, in the time he does it (8-9 hours) and the amount of pots, elixirs, drums, scrolls ect. he uses up for that, i'm pretty sure he could farm those ~500g ALOT easier by just flying a few circles in Sholazar with his mining/herb-alt or whatever.

All i can say, i really respect Jider in a very awesome way for his making and execution of a somewhat odd plan. /clap
He is probabbly the only male Night Elf i would ever consider to be "cool"

[JustintimeSS]

God damn Rogues actually being able to solo something for once through hours of flawless work, and only being able to solo something through clever use of game mechanics and a small exploit using an in game item.

BAN THEM ALL, I SAY.

While your sarcasm is understood (you are a rogue after all and feel the internal need to protect your class), your comments are jaded. It is not really about soloing something "for once" and it is not really about being clever or spending a lot of time to do something creative. What it is about though is exactly what you said: exploit, regardless of size. And that is all it boils down to.

If someone found some way to defeat LK with an exploit (OHWAIT) they could possibly face ramifications, like say... losing their titles. The fact that there is no genuine, digital reward (ie loot/titles) there is a huge amount of front paging going on for an exploiter, again, regardless of the amount of cleverness or time involved. How is this hard to understand?

And why are people replying to others saying UMAD? or You're just mad and angry! No, I'm not any of those at all. Im indecisive on it. Im not mad at him or what he did nor should he get banned or anything of the sort. I just dont think it needed to be blown up so big. That doesnt make me angry or mad just because I disagree with someone.

[purusa]

I don't see anything wrong with it, I also don't understand it, I mean you managed to kill a boss that it used to take a group of people to kill. So what? Need loot from it? No, then what's the purpose? To say you killed him by yourself? Grats, I've killed X as well. If it's a personal thing, then hooray for you, I guess.

[allakaboom]

I wanna see you do it.

[Thetruth1400]

Seems the major argument is "different altitudes or planes" means it makes it ok and not an exploit well that should extend to planes of existence also. Yogg world first should have been ok if you agree with shadow-stepping digrats and using a different altitude. If that isn't exploiting then neither is leaving a paladin in another plane or realm in a boss fight it was totally not exploiting right? Blizzard doesn't care because its old content if it were new he would be banned and a hot-fix deployed overnight. I'm not jealous I killed those bosses the correct way when they were current. Also I wouldn't waste that much time and I'm pretty sure any rogue could do this it doesn't take "skill" just trial and error and no life. Wall jumping in TK on lootreaver to avoid the bombs isn't exploiting and hiding behind a tree stump on Archimonde isn't exploiting either I guess.

Almost forgot what about priests reflective bubble on Sarth 3D just more clever use of game mechanics right?
It was current when you could do that and people got banned and it was hotfixed.

This all the way. It seems doing old content and finding exploits is acceptable, but if if is current content and people do the same thing, that's considered ban worthy. Now I'm not saying he should be banned, but it sure needs fixing before it happens on "real" content as people here want to call it.

Call me jealous or whatever you want, I don't even play it anymore. What he's doing is slightly impressive, but just slightly, not mind blowing awesome. He's using his cooldowns and exploiting.

Atleast when I see people being smart enough to do innovative things like that I regain some part of my faith in humanity after seeing the abundance of idiots around nowadays.

Maybe you should try going outside, looking for someone doing something REALLY impressive with their life then sitting around touting how awesome someone is for finding an exploit in a game. Then you might actually know what faith in humanity is about. It sure isn't about finding exploits in games.

[westernhat]

I think Blizz should be glad this was done with old content, this will give them some knowledge of how to design boss fights in the future and what kind of issues or bugs they should look out for. Glad the guy did this, will help in the future to create better boss fights.

[Marilina]

shadowstepping rats is fine, bosses not reseting health after the encounter "ended" isnt

[Draqn]

No the pathing was the exploit plain and simple the amount of players wasn't because of what you just said you could position the raid this way and guess what if you do its an exploit according to blizz even if its a full 25 thats why the SOLELY part is in italics in the blue post.

Actually you are wrong, the bug abuse was standing inside the wall making the boss basicly unable to hit you and just running around in a circle

[Xerogravity]

/golfclap

[Dethh]

Actually you are wrong, the bug abuse was standing inside the wall making the boss basicly unable to hit you and just running around in a circle

I'm not wrong and neither are you. There were several ways to bug that encounter. Stupid vehicles!