Moonkin DPS, Do you feel jipped?

[Grimshady]

My main for the longest time has been my rogue, and i ALWAYS topped meters. My guild recently had me switch to my moomkin alt due to lack of attendance of our other.
My dps was terrible at first and i blamed gear. Now that my gear is becoming more optimal...the DPS increase aint that great.
Our guild is 11/12 heroic25 keep in mind... and im NEVER above 12th spot in dps. (kinda depressing cuz everyone gives me shit since i dps'd like a boss on my rogue).

-Ive read every freakin post about moonkin dps and dot uptime and movement and all but it seems to me that almost every fight except a few (like Puti, BQL, DrW) i just get completely trashed on and my dps is terrible.
-The only reason my guild keeps me is because i am reliable and dont die to stupid shit along with my B-Res, Innervate, Cyclone and Typhoon. oh and that crit/haste buff. I would say im 90% utility/10% dps.

Do any other moonkins out there feel like the eclipse rotation really gets in the way ESPECIALLY for most fights in ICC? I feel jipped! Ive checked logs of top guilds and alot of what ive seen is that they have their Rdruid go moonkin.

BTW, my armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&cn=Grimshifty
^ incase theres something im doing boneheadedly in my gear.



TL;DR: Do you feel like Moonkin DPS is extremely low compared to most classes?

[Cerus]

Moonkin is my off-spec so I can't really say I feel jipped. However Balance DPS is, for lack of a better word, gimped because of the current Eclipse. Any kind of movement can completely trash your DPS and an unlucky night with the RNG gods will as well.

Cata will fix that with it's planned new Eclipse version. About all you can do now is pray for low movement and good RNG. Your gear, gems and enchants look fine to me.

PS. Don't forget to cast GotW for the 2pT10 proc.

[Grimshady]

Moonkin is my off-spec so I can't really say I feel jipped. However Balance DPS is, for lack of a better word, gimped because of the current Eclipse. Any kind of movement can completely trash your DPS and an unlucky night with the RNG gods will as well.

Cata will fix that with it's planned new Eclipse version. About all you can do now is pray for low movement and good RNG. Your gear, gems and enchants look fine to me.

PS. Don't forget to cast GotW for the 2pT10 proc.

Yah, i am really excited for the Catac version of moonkin rotation.
and YES, the clearcastin 2pT10 is pretty nice especially when gift is 100% proc chance

[Wiyld]

I guess its kind of relative. We don't know how much dmg the rest of the raid is doing so 'im 12th' means nothing. If you can say 'I put out 11k dps on average and I'm still 12th' then we can asses that your raid just has high overall dmg output and that your just fitting in where you belong. On the other hand if you say 'I can only average 9k dps and in 12th' then something is wrong.

Myself, I feel like I make a pretty decent contribution to the dmg output of the raid. On top of the obvious raid buffage, you didn't mention Earth & Moon, allowing all the locks to use dmg curses and not force any DK's to go unholy, is in and of itself a significant raid buff.

Of all the things to complain about, I think the band-aid fix that was the starfall buff should be foremost. It's a fantastic spell now, that can artificially inflate our dmg numbers on fights with more then one target. Sure it's cool to see OMGBIGNUMBERZ on a meter when your dropping starfall every min on LK...but it's not really as helpful as it might appear. Clearly it was a quick fix, instead of the requisite overhaul to the eclipse mechanic. We know the overhaul is coming, so thankfully we have that to look forward too.



INB4 'why r u complaining nub we r getting fix in CAT' - Yes, I know, I'm actually pretty happy with our situation as it stands atm, I'm simply offering the only thing I can really find as a complaint atm.

[Deleted]

Moonkin DPS is absolutely fine. You won't top the meters, but in a raid setting, 24 people aren't topping the meters. What you need to focus on is where you are in the raid. 12th can be just fine, if there is only really a 5% difference between you and the core of the group.

What do I mean by core? Well, here is an example of a damage meter:



Now, you'll notice our two Shadowmourne wielders are way ahead of everybody - this is actually a screenshot from a Lich King HC try, and obviously, there is a lot of Ghoul damage that doesn't really mean anything. I placed 6th, which is fine, but lets take a look at Medelane. He's 12th - does that mean that he is bad? No, the difference between him and me is marginal at best. Most raids will usually have a few people who are ahead, a few people who are behind, and most people will be very, very close to each other. It is in this category that moonkins usually fall.

Now, lets look at a different meter.


This is not the same fight as I linked above (because I had a DC while writing this post), but it serves to point out another argument. This is from a Lich King heroic try, like above, showing only damage done on Lich King. The tables are turned a bit.

There are a lot of factors when raiding. The tactics used, when bloodlust is being cast, if you have the correct setup, if you are using the right rotation and RNG. Are you unlucky and get flames dropped on you often, or did Eclipse just not proc as often as it did?

But in the end, if you are only looking at full damage for all of that fight, you may be beating yourself down for no reason. You need to take the whole fight into account, and if there are any reasons why someone would get more damage out, or less.

Lastly, I urge you to check out the moonkin guide stickied at the top. Read through it, and see if you can spot any inconsistencies between that, and how you play. I hear the author is like, the best moonkin in the world

Second, and this is a bit self promoting, I wrote a list of hard mode tips a while ago. It's long, so I wont list it here, but I hope this is not seen as too self-promoting :P link to blog post.

TL;DR: No, I think moonkin DPS is fine at the moment

[FFLover]

Well,if you're raiding in 11/12 hc guild,most of your raid is probably in almost BiS gear and you got terrible gear....
As far as moonkin dps goes,at worldoflogs and sites like that you will see,that moonkins are nowhere top damagers,but in reality it doesn't matter that much,you can top dps with any class nowadays,i can without problems do 12k dps with my moonkin with 251/264 gear,and it's not much far away from my main fury warrior...there are just little differencies,when you get some gear and master the class,you'll be good,don't worry...

[Grimshady]

well, as seeing my guild is 11/12 heroic25... our dps isnt near shitty.

E&M is another utility im in for... although we do have 1 unholy DK. (i was just listing a couple things im useful for).
and yes, starfall is very nice! but it isnt a problem solver. The second you have to step anywhere (malleable goo, fires, etc.) 85% of your dps is dropped. I think the best fix would to buff our dots, and nerf the giant crits from wrath and SF. with the currently accepted "only apply IF before wrath, and MF before SF" my dots only put out about 10-15% of my total dmg. meaning, that when u are moving... u are only doing 10-15% of your total damage. i KNOW other classes have this same prob (esp. Ele shamans) but it REALLY hits moonkins hard. and on top of this, we benefit the LEAST from Bloodlust/Heroism out of any other class because our SF eclipses are so unpredictable and our wrath eclipse and dots dont benefit 1 bit from it.

I wouldnt say so much as to complain about it... im just a bit frustrated, but i count the days till 4.0

---------- Post added 2010-06-29 at 07:47 PM ----------

TL;DR: No, I think moonkin DPS is fine at the moment

I appreciate that post. I feel a bit more PROUD to be a Balance Druid now. i will definitely look over your posts, and no... i dont think you are tooting your own horn too much. i thank you for the help.

[Deleted]

FFLover has a very good point. You have, what, one item from ICC25 HC, so you have either been cheated away from a lot of items, or joined a guild that had more progress than yourself - unless, ofcourse, you have cleared 11/12 really, really recently.

To compare with myself - *IM* in an 11/12 HC guild. Unbuffed, I'm sitting at 3464 SP, 38,92% crit and 895 haste. Your mostly-normal gear puts you at 3059 SP, 31,26% crit and 512 haste. Thats quite a difference. If the rest of your guild is in gear similar to mine, rather than yours, then ofcourse you will be lower on the meters You are also lacking a profession, and the one you have isn't trained to 450

[Boloney]

i dont raid much but i still top the meters in vault

[Grimshady]

FFLover has a very good point. You have, what, one item from ICC25 HC, so you have either been cheated away from a lot of items, or joined a guild that had more progress than yourself - unless, ofcourse, you have cleared 11/12 really, really recently.

To compare with myself - *IM* in an 11/12 HC guild. Unbuffed, I'm sitting at 3464 SP, 38,92% crit and 895 haste. Your mostly-normal gear puts you at 3059 SP, 31,26% crit and 512 haste. Thats quite a difference. If the rest of your guild is in gear similar to mine, rather than yours, then ofcourse you will be lower on the meters You are also lacking a profession, and the one you have isn't trained to 450

yesh, as i mentioned in my first post, my rogue was my main up until we were 8/12HM 25. he is more than half BiS, (which is now wasted) and my guild had me go boomkin because our other boom stopped showing up.
before i started raiding on my druid, it was just a "LAWLDGAF" alt that i didnt even have proffs on. i am currently powerleveling JC and am still figuring out what i should do for my second proff. (btw, any recs?)

[Kyocere]

Pure > hybrid. This is how it should work anyway.

[Starsurge]

I don't see anything wrong with your gear, Your Hit's a bit high, but that's nothing, Nibelung is a terrible staff, if you have the ability, upgrade it with MH/OH Combo preferably, replace the gear you have with spirit, find pieces with Haste/Crit, or something along those lines, All I'm seeing is a lack of haste, maybe that's the problem? But I can't be entirely sure.

[Deleted]

Enchanting works quite well with anything. Engineering is also quite good for moonkins these days, if used correctly.

[Grimshady]

Enchanting works quite well with anything. Engineering is also quite good for moonkins these days, if used correctly.

lol. i have yet to see a moonkin with rocketboots. do you know how hard it is to lvl engineering with no miner/BSer?

[Aelith]

Pure > hybrid. This is how it should work anyway.

Beacuse fury warriors and DK's are pure amirite?

[elbo]

when my guild was raiding some fights i would be to 3 or 5 than others im lower it all depends

[sicness]

Beacuse fury warriors and DK's are pure amirite?

Fury warriors are the hardest class in the world to balance due to the way rage works, which is hopefully getting fixed in Cataclysm. Also, I believe Blizz has stated that melee dps should be doing slightly more than ranged as well, hybrid or not.

[akaTheDude]

Pure > hybrid. This is how it should work anyway.

This man speaks the truth

[Hotspotjr]

Nice haste lol

[Dr420]

Ok, first off I agree totally with the OP avout boomkin dps being gimped. Any kind of movement or dispell/cc while eclipse is procced and our dps takes a major hit, there is no way to talk around that fact. Also, again i agree we are getting a great overhaul in Cata that "should" fix our dps issues, but does that mean we just stop playing our mains untill Cata launches...? I personally would be rather mad if that was blizzards answer to our problems as of now. The main reason we are brought to a raid, usually only the "best" boomkin in the guild because 2 would be redundant and a slight dps gimp to the raid, is our buff no question.

If you look at world of logs overall dps by class, boomkins as a whole are 2nd to last in overall raid dps, only topping frost mages that are tuned for PvP as of now. The meeters linked above were admittedly buffed by hitting the ghouls in the LK fight, which IMHO should not be happening at all, and there goes about 15% of your dmg and throws you about 5 spots down the meeters, and proves the OP's statments he made in the first place. Bottom line, yes there are a few exceptional boomkins out there, but as for overall, boomkins drew the short straw in WotLK and theres not much you can do th change that fact.