Ruby Sanctum Arp Trinket

[Lolsteak]

Well actually, I didn't include a strength gem, so out of Bright and Delicate, Bright is better.

Which is completely pointless when he's asking what's best, not if A is better than B.

[Jovufyzrtcbiyfyih]

Glancing blows happen roughly 24% of the time versus a boss. That makes the critical strike soft cap roughly 76%. However, the boss has an initiate(??) crit reduction of 4.8%. Thus you should require, as a feral druid, to have 76+4.8% crit in order to be soft-capped in critical strikes. When I say soft-cap, it counts only for auto-attacks which is roughly 35% of our damage. Shred, Mangle, Rake, Ferocious Bite and other special attacks aren't affected by the glancing blow mechanic, and can reach 100% crit. Though that isn't something to aim for.

So short story. Soft crit cap is 80.8% on the character window.

(this of course is if you're hit and expertise-capped.)

[Lolsteak]

Glancing blows happen roughly 24% of the time versus a boss. That makes the critical strike soft cap roughly 76%. However, the boss has an initiate(??) crit reduction of 4.8%. Thus you should require, as a feral druid, to have 76+4.8% crit in order to be soft-capped in critical strikes. When I say soft-cap, it counts only for auto-attacks which is roughly 35% of our damage. Shred, Mangle, Rake, Ferocious Bite and other special attacks aren't affected by the glancing blow mechanic, and can reach 100% crit. Though that isn't something to aim for.

So short story. Soft crit cap is 80.8% on the character window.

(this of course is if you're hit and expertise-capped.)

Crit Caps
4.8% of our white Crits will always be converted into white hits against bosses. We can't reduce our chance to normally hit with white attacks below 4.8%.
Our Critchance with Yellow Attacks is reduced by 4.8% against bosses. But we actually CAN convert all our hits into crits.

76% - White crit cap (+ 24% Glancing Blows = 100%)
79.8% - Ferocious Bite Crit Cap (+ 25% Crit from Talent - 4.8% Crit Suppression = 100%)
104.8% - Yellow Crit Cap (- 4.8% Crit Suppression = 100%)

http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t63774-f...ps_discussion/

[jobdone]

Which is completely pointless when he's asking what's best, not if A is better than B.

Yes pointless, but the person I quoted was comparing those two gems and suggesting Delicate might be better, I was just explaining why it wasn't.

[Deleted]

Tbh I'm surprised to see so many non-Druids in here

But haste is the best stat after all the caps (arp, crit, hit and exp). Check simcraft and EJ if you don't belive me...

It makes for example OoC procc more due reduce attack speed. The ashen ring could also procc more. And so could berserking.

[Jovufyzrtcbiyfyih]

I'm quite certain I read something similar on the rogue forums, about negating the crit suppression.

[Twibs]

You are both forgetting that you gt +3% crit from raid buffs (Pally/Shaman, I think) that is not listed in character sheet.

[darigan]

Concerning the crit suppression or depression (depending on the different EJ-Forums):

It was proven, that these values were just the 5% block fighting a training dummy up front. The problem was that SW/skada counted blocks as hits.

[arel00]

Free gems slots priorities:

- ArP cap, you're there... Check
- crit cap, you say you're there... Check
- Hit and Expertise caps... are you there yet?
- Haste

If you aren't hit and expertise capped, gem for those (when crit and ArP are done). If you have ALL those 4 caps already set, then Haste is your best pick. It beats strength by little, but it's better

[littlepiggy]

Melee have a lower crit cap then 100% because of dodges, blocks, parries and glancing blows. I forget what it is but I think it's around 65% or something.

Edit: Just looked it up it's 61.5% crit cap for melee, and a meger 42.5% for Dual-wield classes.

where did you look that up? the 42.5% MIGHT be right for the OH, but not dual wield in general, but the 61.5 is completely wrong... every class has a different crit cap, but


feral druid is 77.8% crit on your character sheet minus chance to miss and be dodged. (assuming all buffs)
any other number on here is wrong

on to the original conversation.. you need to plug in your stats into Toskk's and Rawr and see what they say, Strength can VERY easily be better than haste, but either way the difference in DPS will be EXTREMELY minimal. Anyone saying one is definitely better than the other really needs to stop and play with Rawr/Toskks.. Just typing in my own stats, strength is better than haste and then typing in crit, hit and exp cap it still shows strength is better. just my quick findings

arp cap > crit cap > hit/exp cap > str or haste

[Helansin]

i thought it was pretty strait forward that haste was the way to go when the "fantastic 4" where capped but im not sure if the spreadsheets factor in the increase in OoC procs from additional haste

[Nassam]

http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t63774-f...ps_discussion/

from your linked topic:
"Attention!
I've gone inactive. This post is not going to be updated anymore by me."

"Last edited by Murna : 05/25/10 at 2:53 PM."

as said before, the crit cap is actually:

100-24+4.8 = 80.8 if hit/expertise cap

if you add to that the 3%crit from rogues/pal and i don't remember the 3rd one, that's 77.8% on character sheet.

The Crit Cap and You
Once you start collecting a lot of very good gear, especially Icecrown-quality gear, you will start to bump up against the crit cap. Due to the way the combat table works for white attacks, if your chance to glance, miss, be dodged, and crit all add up to 100%, you cannot increase your white crit rate any further.
For ease of use by average players, all final crit cap numbers are as they would appear on your character sheet in a standard 25-man raid, and assume the presence of all raid buffs. This number will be higher than your actual crit rate on the boss, due to the level difference. You should check it in combat, with permanent effects (including your idol) active.
To find your white crit cap, add your hit chance and your dodge reduction from expertise to 63.3%. . For instance, with no hit or expertise rating at all, but specced for primal precision, it's 63.3% + 0 + 2.5% = 65.8%. If your crit chance was higher than that, your white attacks would all be crits, glances, misses, and dodges, and adding more crit would not increase your white damage any further, however your special attacks, which are calculated differently, would still increase.
If you hit the crit cap, models suggest you should in fact stack hit and expertise to their respective caps. This moves your crit cap up, making crit more valuable again. If you reach the hard crit cap of 77.8% (again, character sheet number), the hit cap, and the expertise cap, you should gem armor penetration to cap if you haven't already (soft cap if you have a trinket that grants ArP, hard cap otherwise), and then finally, most likely strength beyond that point.
A recent hotfix to boss crit suppression removed a 4.8% chance to hit that couldn't be overcome. If you see in another guide either 76% or 71.2%, it's outdated.
Since this guide's aim is for you to have to do as little math as possible, I give the number that you will get if you look on your character sheet while in combat. Assuming hit and expertise caps, you will become white crit capped when you have 77.8% crit on your character sheet.

source: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...64788935&sid=1

[Sarismar]

The likelyhood of the 1st post having hit/exp capped is slim to none. Assumeing he is able to get BiS items he will be capped on crit(agil)/arp and start gemming hit/exp when fesable.

[Deleted]

if you add to that the 3%crit from rogues/pal and i don't remember the 3rd one, that's 77.8% on character sheet.

The last one is from ele shamans totem or wrath

[Elunedra]

i am not crit capped yet lol, and not arp capped even on my rawtr u can see that str and haste are realty close to each others



i have done some testing on my wanaby BiS set, and rawr still puts agi better then haste even when crit is capped, probely becase we still get crit on our specail attacks and that is still ~65% if our dmg

[Deleted]

Rawr overvalues agility at high gear levels compared to simulationcraft.

[sapp]

haste.

[Sarismar]

Rawr like any tool needs to have the settings played w/. the rule still follows on Arp vs Agil. the newest trinket just makes it so if you have acess to both the Icc and this that the choice is simple > ArP. from there your just waiting for some other nice pieces till you can start gemming out of ArP. the more BiS you can get the quicker you can do so.

once you can cap crit agil is not as useful as the other stats you can get acess to. Haste > hit > exp

[Deleted]

Kitty: SimCraft

Tank: Rawr

[Elunedra]

Kitty: SimCraft

Tank: Rawr

:/ i am a gear fan of rawr ....

but where can i get the simcraft them ? gues i can try it out