Fury [LK Guides & Cataclysm Changes]

[Kysimir]

As you can tell, there have been a lot of changes in the Warrior Forums lately, this is merely the most obvious. At first, I was going through and giving infractions for people that didn't look through the first page and created duplicate threads, but then I decided to run through and just convert to the Cataclysm layout ahead of schedule. This may be fine tuned at any time, but currently this is what the moderators have agreed is the best course of action.

For the time being, this thread will be used as a link-hotspot for current WOTLK guides, and as a discussion platform for the appropriate spec (in the title) changes upcoming in Cataclysm.

What this means right now?

This means that all of (y)our guides will be unstickied to clear room, and links to the appropriate guides will be listed in this sticky's original post. Furthermore, as I (or the other moderators) find ourselves bored, the second post will be updated with updates for that spec in Cataclysm. Furthermore, all subsequent cataclysm posts will be locked and/or merged into this thread.

What this means in Cataclysm?

In short, it means that guides will be much more comprehensive than in the past. The guides may or may not be locked in Cataclysm. Guides will include, at a minimum, the following:

(1) Accurate use of the English Language, including decent grammar syntax, spelling, and paragraph usage.
(2)Consists of Sections, or some similar organizational feature. If you have questions as to what "sections" are, look at this thread, or this one.
(3)Links to other Guides. This includes, but is not limited to, a comprehensive post on macros not included in your guide, Addon-guides (for addons requiring extensive setup, like Power Auras), or any other "general knowledge" posts needed.

It should contain, but is not required to contain, the following:

(1)Pictures
(2)Zomg Math!
(3)Macros and UI suggestions

Feedback

Feel free to PM a moderator, or use the appropriate thread, found here with any constructive feedback you may have.

Other Guides/links:

The Caps and You Guide
Armor Pen for Dummies!
Macro Compendium
Cataclysm Changes

[Icemasta]

I was wondering, what if you pick both TG and SMF and equip a 2hander in your main-hand a 1-hander in your off-hand? 10% damage boost AND off-hand attacks on your slams?

Edit: 10% damage boost because 20% from SMF - 10% from TG = 10%, that's if they are additive.

[Kysimir]

I'd imagine that they would remove the ability to do that, and/or completely neuter any viability such a spec might have.

[Finangus]

http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/59729/pocket-sized-mace/
http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/57329/firestorm-hackblade/

BAM! One handed strength weapons confirmed!

Aaannnndddd.....

http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/59620/t...alker-shotgun/

KABLOEEY! DPS warrior gun!

[Kysimir]

http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/59620/t...alker-shotgun/
KABLOEEY! DPS warrior gun!

Finally, FFS; lol.

[Finangus]

Finally, FFS; lol.

Actually, now that I think about it, that's useful for DPS and tanks. They could possibly avoid making separate guns for DPS and Prot warriors by putting neutral bonus stats on them like hit, exp, and mastery. Honestly, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that's what they end up doing.

[Opeth69]

Oki Im going to repost some info ive posted in other threads here as i think its all pretty useful :

So far....

HS is 20% of AP at 10 rage cost, and 40% AP at 30 rage cost.
Cleave is 15% of AP at 10 Rage and 30% AP at 30 Rage.
Execute is 25% of AP at 10 Rage and 50% of AP at 30 Rage. Still only usable under 20%.

The Fury Mastery at 51 points of investment are:
8.01% increased physical damage done.
8.01% melee haste.
80.07% increased benefits on Enrages.

Update:

After looking at the talent calculator it looks like this is going to the SMF build to use until the next beta push:
http://www.wowtal.com/#k=1Q5Nt7dobRZACA4.9gq.warrior

and this will be the TG build:
http://www.wowtal.com/#k=iQ5Nt7umiP0QF4K.9gq.warrior

Aight, the reason for going down Arms is that Wrecking Crew has been moved to 5th tier in Arms. This means that with the Fury Mastery it will give 18% increased damage after we crit, and that is before any Mastery rating on your gear. That along with Deep Wounds and Impale will dwarf even 1H spec and Incite in Prot as SMF.

Also:

Heroic Strike
Base: 20% AP to 40% AP
TG with 3/3 Imp HS and Wrecking Crew and 2H Spec: 25.86% AP to 51.83% AP
SMF with 3/3 Imp HS and Wrecking Crew: 32.6% AP to 65.1% AP

Cleave
Base: 15% AP to 30% AP
TG and WC and 2H Spec: 16.88% AP to 33.77% AP
TG with WC, 2H Spec and 3/3 Imp Cleave: 19.42% AP to 38.84% AP
SMF and WC: 34.51% AP to 69.03% AP
SMF with WC and 3/3 Imp Cleave: 39.68% AP to 79.38% AP

Execute
Base: 25% AP to 50% AP
TG with WC and 2H: 28.14% AP to 56.29% AP
TG with WC, 2H and 2/2 Imp Exe: 33.77% AP to 67.55% AP
SMF with WC: 35.4% AP to 70.8% AP
SMF with WC and 2/2 Imp Cleave: 42.48% to 84.96% AP

Aight, it looks like we can safely assume both SMF and TG will be using Execute as the rage dump below 20%. HS and Cleave just can't keep up. The real question is going to be whether or not SMF is going to use Cleave as their rage dump since it won't proc Slams or VR's. Cleave is going to be hitting significantly harder than HS for SMF builds.

And:

Also other things to consider our fury mastery increases the effect of all enrages up to 80% increased effect by simply speccing into fury, this means deathwish and any other enraging effect like wrecking crew and fury in the blood will be massively increased in effectiveness aand scale with mastery. Another thing though is whether or not half of these enrage effects stack, if Fury in the Blood stacks with wrecking crew then its amazing, if it doesnt there theres no point taking it over wrecking crew unless wrecking crew uptime is a lot lower in cata.

I pinched some numbers to consider as well as most abilities in cata will scale with our current rage:

" Aight I set up a spreadsheet for personal use that let's me screw with HS, Cleave, Execute and BT all at the same time for SMF or TG. I decided to try this to find equivalency points to determine when you should switch your priorities around for maximizing damage.

For SMF with 5/5 UF, 5/5 DW Spec, 5/5 WC, 3/3 HS, 2/2 Imp Execute and 3/3 Imp Cleave:
Cleave starts doing more damage than BT at ~55 Rage.
HS starts doing more damage than BT at ~75 Rage.
Execute starts doing more damage than BT at ~50 Rage.

For TG with 5/5 UF, 3/3 2H Spec, 5/5 WC, 3/3 Imp HS, 3/3 Imp Cleave and 2/2 Imp Execute:
Cleave surpasses BT at no point.
HS surpasses BT at ~75 Rage.
Execute surpasses BT at ~50 Rage.

Granted this doesn't take into consideration crit rates. I would need more data for things like that. Once I get those numbers I can make those changes. "

Quite interesting as it seems our rotation is likely to change depending on our rage gen, also 90 rage HS are going to hit like a train for TG This also means were going to have to pay careful attention to our rage bars and likely adjust our rotation according to the rage we have or if rage gens fairly constant we can work out a timed rotation for our gear levels. All looks nice though, I like the idea of having more to focus on that 3-4 abilities and depending on the beta it looks like fury could be pretty strong in both pve and potentially pvp(bg's) in cata.

Also Yes SMF requires 2x1h to work, i hope to god somethings done with slam still, arms looks broken and fury having 2 procs to worry about is giong to get too rng for me. Enjoy my wall of text!

[Kysimir]

Actually, now that I think about it, that's useful for DPS and tanks. They could possibly avoid making separate guns for DPS and Prot warriors by putting neutral bonus stats on them like hit, exp, and mastery. Honestly, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that's what they end up doing.

That would be pretty smart/ideal, actually.

[Canis]

Well, I was really wondering if extra rage generation would bump our DPS a lot. With new inner rage passive ability and extra benefits to all effects of enrage, wouldnt it be better to get extra points in improved bers rage, and improved bloodrage. Just wondering. I suppose with high mastery we will be going rly high on rage generation through these abilities and then get extra DPS because of inner rage. Just no idea how much we will benefit from that inner rage.
Damn, that thing starts to look like rogue talent builds.

[Opeth69]

Oki incase anyone wondered atm looking at the numbers the big question is will TG or SMF be better, and the good or bad news is that SMF will be better than TG atm. The main reason is the -10% dmg on TG still and +20% on SMF makes it a +30% difference which combined with nearly all our abilities scaling with AP now and not wep dmg means SMF surpasses TG at around AP levels of 6kish AP which most people already have. Also SMF will scale a lot better than TG in its current form and provide much smoother rage gen, cleaves will be godly, I means literally godly with SMF I cant wait The thing that we REALLY need now is for slam to be made an instant anyway bloodsurge to be removed and VR to be our only proc, t10 arms can have something decent instead of Imp Slam and Fury wont be so RNG based, they could make VR hit with both weps for SMF and not slam to stop us spamming it and it should even things out.

---------- Post added 2010-07-01 at 04:54 PM ----------

I found some interesting Info on warriors from the beta forums:

Thunderclap is now much weaker and has no CD. However they may revert that change

Q u o t e:
Thunder Clap is something we are experimenting with. It might be that it works with no cooldown if Shockwave hits hard enough for the emergency or burst threat. We also might end up changing it back.



HS is off GCD with a short CD.

Q u o t e:
The new mechanic that we are trying now is Heroic Strike is still instant, but is off the GCD and with a short cooldown. The rage cost doesn't scale, but we can make it more expensive if it needs to be in order to adequately burn off rage. We are hoping the rage normalization and Inner Rare mechanics do a sufficient job on their own of keeping rage from ever getting infinite. We're still not fans of the next swing mechanic, so that isn't likely to return. It delays gratification, and ends up being really confusing because you lose the rage and damage that white swing would have caused etc. (It also causes a bug allowing dual-wield warriors to cheat their hit chance, but that's fixable in other ways.)



Found some interesting Info in the tank thread.

They are experimenting with letting threat decay overtime, so tanks won't just rush past the DPS and be able to AFK half the fight.

Q u o t e:
On threat, one of the changes we're considering trying out is to have threat decay pretty rapidly. The idea is that a tank should never be able to get so far ahead on threat that they can AFK for the rest of the fight. It might sound like a nerf, but really the intent is to make sure that the tank's job is never done -- that what you do will remain important.



The parry change may get reverted.

Q u o t e:
We're also not happy with the new implementation of parry, where you take 50% damage from two swings. It sounded good on paper, but after testing it out we thought the second swing just feels goofy and confusing. Our plan is to revert parry back to 100% avoidance and remove the concept of swing speed increase for any creature (players could still do it). We would change the budget on parry to be exactly the same as dodge. We'd also like to add some more talent hooks that favor say parry over dodge for some classes -- stuff like "After a successful parry...."



And a whole list of other changes from a non-blue post

Q u o t e:
Warrior:

- Shield Slam damage is now AP based and the highest damage ability Warriors have.
- Shield Block now only increase block chance by 100% but does not change the amount blocked.
- Shield Wall and Last Stand still on 5 and 3 mins CD respectively
- Mocking Blow appears to be gone.
- Thunder Clap doesn't seem to scale. With anything. (300 damage hits and 600 crits with ~14k AP; addendum: this might be related to Vengeance being broken)
- [Bug] Thunder Clap still not usable when silenced.
- Shockwave got it's damage halved. It hits for the same amount as Conc Blow now.
- [Bug] Damage Shield is stil not working even after it got changed to AP scaling.
- Enrage from Fury and Improved Defensive Stance still do not stack.



Threads I found all this info.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...20149&sid=2000
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...03015&sid=2000

We have much to discuss.

Edit: Almost forgot, Taunt now uses melee hit WOOHOO!

Q u o t e:
- Taunt appears to be on the melee hit table now. I got 0 misses with 8.2% Hit (as close as I could get it to 8%) throughout 100 Taunts before I got bored and left. I got a miss with 0% Hit. And lastly, Taunt is now capable of proccing Berserking and Grim Toll (and presumably other things that require you to actually hit stuff with your melee or ranged weapon which only confirms that Taunt is now considered either a melee or ranged physical ability.)
That said, this does not mean with 100% certainty that 8% is enough to not get misses so more data from others would be groovy.



Also found more stuff
Warriors:

Q u o t e:
- Safeguard now makes you daze immune.
- Damage Shield is still broken.
- Mocking Blow is still gone.
- Shield Specialization is working again.
- Improved Defensive Stance is now working again.
- Enrage from Fury and Improved Defensive Stance still do not stack.
- TC still not usable when silenced.

[Kysimir]

After looking at the talent calculator it looks like this is going to the SMF build to use until the next beta push:
http://www.wowtal.com/#k=1Q5Nt7dobRZACA4.9gq.warrior

and this will be the TG build:
http://www.wowtal.com/#k=iQ5Nt7umiP0QF4K.9gq.warrior

Aight, the reason for going down Arms is that Wrecking Crew has been moved to 5th tier in Arms. This means that with the Fury Mastery it will give 18% increased damage after we crit, and that is before any Mastery rating on your gear. That along with Deep Wounds and Impale will dwarf even 1H spec and Incite in Prot as SMF.

Wrecking crew will not stack with Fury in the Blood, so there is no point into speccing both. I would imagine, this spec would be more appropriate.

Unbridled Wrath has always been a mediocre DPS increase, so I could see (depending on the fight) Frenzied Regen (especially if it stays "when you take damage" and that means things like Infest / Sindy's Aura) being much better. If it just means 'melee' damage, then I guess we're stuck with UW.
Heroic Fury will most likely always remain a staple as long as it remains an option.
Whirlwind is going to be pretty lack-luster on single-target fights, with the WW nerf, so much to the point we may not even use it.


Of course, without knowing things like: How crappy will Execute be in Cataclysm, will we continue to WW, despite it's nerf? It's impossible to say with any certainty.

[Opeth69]

Wrecking crew will not stack with Fury in the Blood, so there is no point into speccing both. I would imagine, this spec would be more appropriate.

Unbridled Wrath has always been a mediocre DPS increase, so I could see (depending on the fight) Frenzied Regen (especially if it stays "when you take damage" and that means things like Infest / Sindy's Aura) being much better. If it just means 'melee' damage, then I guess we're stuck with UW.
Heroic Fury will most likely always remain a staple as long as it remains an option.
Whirlwind is going to be pretty lack-luster on single-target fights, with the WW nerf, so much to the point we may not even use it.


Of course, without knowing things like: How crappy will Execute be in Cataclysm, will we continue to WW, despite it's nerf? It's impossible to say with any certainty.

Enrage still sucks im afraid noones going to spec into it, as far as Wrecking Crew and Fury in the blood go i have a feeling they will stack, most enrage effects that dont say so or are obvious enrages like Wrecking Crew Imp Def stance etc, so id suspect youd pop Bloodrage when you want for extra dmg. You could drop a point in WW i guess its up to you, its only going to be situational at best in raids but fairly useful for leveling/instances I suspect. Execute seems pretty impressive atm, it scales with rage and so will likely go back to TBC style execute spamming below 20% with imp execute as it should hit pretty damn hard. The thing im worried about is what blizz is doing to HS, as I just saw another Beta post about how it'll not scale with rage have a small CD and be off the GCD which is just a crap version of what we have now, which if its the case would chane our entire rotation again :S
WTB eu beta so I can finally test it myself

[Kysimir]

Enrage still sucks im afraid noones going to spec into it, as far as Wrecking Crew and Fury in the blood go i have a feeling they will stack, most enrage effects that dont say so or are obvious enrages like Wrecking Crew Imp Def stance etc, so id suspect youd pop Bloodrage when you want for extra dmg. You could drop a point in WW i guess its up to you, its only going to be situational at best in raids but fairly useful for leveling/instances I suspect. Execute seems pretty impressive atm, it scales with rage and so will likely go back to TBC style execute spamming below 20% with imp execute as it should hit pretty damn hard. The thing im worried about is what blizz is doing to HS, as I just saw another Beta post about how it'll not scale with rage have a small CD and be off the GCD which is just a crap version of what we have now, which if its the case would chane our entire rotation again :S
WTB eu beta so I can finally test it myself

Not Enrage, Frenzied Regeneration. I mostly used it to unlock everything else further down, since I operated under the assumption that Blood rage buff wouldn't stack with Wrecking Crew. Since, Wrecking Crew's tooltip says "Does not stack with other Enrage" and Enrage says it does not stack with Wrecking Crew. I can't imagine that Blood Rage would stack, but it's all speculation at this point. If it does, then yeah, GG.

---------- Post added 2010-07-01 at 05:25 PM ----------

Single-Minded Fury - Increases all damage by 20% while you have one-handed weapons equipped, and causes your Cleave and Slam abilities to hit with both weapons.

Interesting tidbit, but do you think SMF will have Cleave > Heroic Strike? O.o

[bloodronin]

i was messing around with the talent trees. I love the fury changes and cant w8 to pvp as fury. 1h fury has been my fav spec since vanilla and then they changed it lol.
here are some pvp specs i made
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...WHZc-y_,,12319 if enrage and fury in blood dont stack
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...7aH_AP_,,12319 if they do stack this

[Venomizer]

I think fury in the blood and either enrage/wrecking crew will stack. Only reason I say they will is that Wrecking Crew and Enrage specifically state they wont stack where neither talent mentions fury in the blood.

EDIT: Anyone find anything on how haste will effect warriors? I only remember Blizzard talking on its effects on hunters/rogues/DKs but i couldnt find anything on how it will work on warriors.

[Opeth69]

Not Enrage, Frenzied Regeneration. I mostly used it to unlock everything else further down, since I operated under the assumption that Blood rage buff wouldn't stack with Wrecking Crew. Since, Wrecking Crew's tooltip says "Does not stack with other Enrage" and Enrage says it does not stack with Wrecking Crew. I can't imagine that Blood Rage would stack, but it's all speculation at this point. If it does, then yeah, GG.

---------- Post added 2010-07-01 at 05:25 PM ----------

Single-Minded Fury - Increases all damage by 20% while you have one-handed weapons equipped, and causes your Cleave and Slam abilities to hit with both weapons.

Interesting tidbit, but do you think SMF will have Cleave > Heroic Strike? O.o

Cleave will hit considerably harder for SMF than HS but Cleave wont proc VR or Slam, however blizz is being really unclear as to there plans with HS, the latest it seems is that they intent iut to not be spamable, be off the GCD not scale with rage cost anymore(ie fixed cost) and have a short CD, which means if thats the case we'd liekly use it every CD to get procs then carry on cleaving :P

[LoLHellcy]

and this will be the TG build:
http://www.wowtal.com/#k=iQ5Nt7umiP0QF4K.9gq.warrior

close but not exactly. i think it would be much much (much) greater to add points into Taste for Blood and Imp. Overpower for the reason that it gives you more buttons to play with ( / a meaning full rotation) and it forces u into Battle Stance, and since we don't use WW any more, we should be in Battle Stance for the ArP anyways

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=g0cEfrFttINIwiz.9gq.warrior This is the spec i came up w/, ask me questions, ull need to know about it when u use the spec come cata

[dezraj]

Victory Rush
Battle, Berserker Stance
Instantly attack the target causing [ 45% of AP ] damage. Can only be used within 20 sec after you kill an enemy that yields experience or honor. Damage is based on your attack power. If used after a killing blow, will heal you for 30% of your maximum health.
5 yd range, Instant

Mmm, getting this at low levels= leveling a warrior awesomeness

[Calamari]

[...]and since we don't use WW any more, we should be in Battle Stance for the ArP anyways[...]

Hold your horses, dont forget about the 20%+ strength from Imp. Berserker Stance, while 10% passive ArP and the possibility of including Overpower to the fury rotation does sound interesting.

[LoLHellcy]

Hold your horses, dont forget about the 20%+ strength from Imp. Berserker Stance, while 10% passive ArP and the possibility of including Overpower to the fury rotation does sound interesting.

.....AND i forgot about that.... im dumb, i only thought about the Threat part of it, although Overpower + ArP could potentially "overpower" it (hehe i made a funny)

---------- Post added 2010-07-01 at 10:53 PM ----------

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=g0cEfrFTAHXYq-w.9gq.warrior Updated spec: those 5 points added alot of utility to the spec tbh, and i mean, if the STR overpowers it ill be pissed (if STR overpowers overpower, rend, etc.....) but then well all know the spec. WW / Cleave could be used inplace of my points. the reason i didn't pick up 2 hander spec is that it is VERY similar to wrecking crew....except wrecking crew is an enrage and adjusted by our mastery.