Rogue vs Feral Druid

[Djspw]

I don't know if it was posted or removed/discussed already. But I want to ask srsly what will be the chances that a rogue to be taken in front of a druid feral in CATA ( I know it had been discussed in every single post patch this kind of things ), in a raid 10/25 even arenas. But by giving druid the capability to interrupt( and sillence ) the target same as the rogue ( even better but that to be considered in a pvp enviroment ).
I'm an old player of rogue class and end gaming so I don't have this problems but im not playing alone this class .



p.s. Serious answers and discussions please

[Phantazm]

i think what you're trying to say is that the "hybrid tax" is currently and seems to be remaining total bullshit and not properly implemented.

if so, then i completely agree.

[Monkeyturtle]

I agree as well. Hybrid tax need to be a little more taxy.

[Djspw]

Is not about to be to taxy ... but ppl bring additional rogue or in some guilds ... I know some on my realm aswell only at some bosses cuz they can interupt etc ...

[ThatOneDude]

No one brings a class "just because", Djspw. Most if not all guilds are willing to sacrifice utility for DPS, depending on setups.

Ferals, regardless how you see it, needed an interrupt. 1min CD on an interrupt is not gaming breaking and doesn't give them much control, it gives them an opportunity to finish someone off ( something they were LACKING ). This does not really change much for Rogues and usually I like the hybrid tax to be shown, but taxation without representation is wrong anyway you think about it. Toning down other things should probably be done but overall, it's not that big of a deal. If anything, I'm more QQing of the range and targeting switching ability that they ALREADY have with Charge ( Sub at least has to Shadowstep/Kick and use 2 different CDs ).

Blizzard has followed this trend: Give Ferals what Rogues got last expansion, but make it better! Look at Charge and the implementation of Infected Wounds. ( granted it has it's own flaws, but the ASPD reduction is something we don't get )

I just don't understand why Blizzard does not believe Rogues need more mobility than what it's got..Of course with the new dispel mechanics, Rogues will find their targets more easily snared..so that's a small bonus. Shamans, prepare to die..mercilessly. Druids will still kick our asses in Cata like in every expansion ( Resto at least )

[Martsus]

Shamans, prepare to die..mercilessly.

:-(

[Djspw]

Is not a 1 minute cldw is 10 seconds like ours and gives more utility then our kick ( aditional mana consumation for the next x sec). Pvp wise it has more burst ( escape from snares ), less aoe / anti fear then a rogue ...

[sethg]

There will always be a need for 1 or 2 rogues in a raid group. Rogues will most likely continue to have the strongest misdirect in cataclysm, the strongest melee interrupt, as well as pumping out high DPS in cata. Currently all of our rogues in Uprising out DPS our feral druid and we have all made a niche for ourselves where we have become "needed". You just need to be able to out preform (it is possible) the person above you and your spot will be safe.

I.E. Die less, DPS Harder, Play smarter and analyze your performances in raids more.

[kilgan]

I like the traps too. If Blizz keeps putting traps that need to be disarmed we will always have a spot too.

[Deleted]

There will always be a need for 1 or 2 rogues in a raid group. Rogues will most likely continue to have the strongest misdirect in cataclysm, the strongest melee interrupt, as well as pumping out high DPS in cata.

What's stronger in kick than say in relatively cheap Pummel or this free (for frost IIRC) DK interrupt? I don't think rogues are useless, but I just don't get your points (I agree with MD/high dps).

Currently all of our rogues in Uprising out DPS our feral druid...

Except for marrowgar, saurfang, BQL, valithria and sindragosa on your last ICC25H log where he/she outdpses all of your rogues

[sethg]

I can't speak for the rest of the rogues this week but typically we do out dmg/dps our feral. Can't win all the time hehe ^_^.

[Krid]

If anything, I'm more QQing of the range and targeting switching ability that they ALREADY have with Charge ( Sub at least has to Shadowstep/Kick and use 2 different CDs ).

You have to spec for shadowstep btw and it's in a tree that isn't widely used.

[zephyr77]

Feral can't Vanish!!! Once you get out of stealth, you stay there. Also, feral's stealth has 10 sec CD, while rogue's if specced is 4 sec.

[Phantazm]

Vanish isn't nearly effective enough to complain about not having. Rogues don't get berserk.

[ThatOneDude]

You have to spec for shadowstep btw and it's in a tree that isn't widely used.

Hence why I put Sub as in Subtlety to give some classification even if I didn't directly say only Subtlety gets that talent because most if not all Rogues should know this.

I can't speak for the rest of the rogues this week but typically we do out dmg/dps our feral. Can't win all the time hehe ^_^.

Good thing this isn't Ulduar anymore when Ferals did beat Rogues. As for PVP, Rogues have better CC and control which makes them more valuable ( among other things, obviously )

Feral can't Vanish!!! Once you get out of stealth, you stay there. Also, feral's stealth has 10 sec CD, while rogue's if specced is 4 sec.

Well that only matters in BGs so obviously you don't do arena as Feral and if you do...well then you should realize what you're saying is just QQ. You use your opener followed by 1.5 GCD and it takes 5 seconds to leave combat so that leaves 3.5 seconds which you have unaccounted for stealthing. To say that you only use 1-2 GCDs and want to stealth is just dumb and shows it doesn't really matter in anything but BGs where you help kill someone and want to stealth right away...not that big of a deal.

As for Vanish, you don't rely on stealth as much as a Rogue. You lose an opener, no big dea. A Rogue cant get a Sap off or an opener and they are occasionally forced to blow CDs. Ferals have Bear Form and can absorb alot of damage and can kite melee just as easily as Resto can and in some cases it's easier! ( Charge can be used defenisvely just as much as it can be used offensively ). You have passive ways of mitigating damage and getting out of melee and AoE damage while Rogues, do not. While anyone can argue whether or not they need it, you have to understand that Ferals are just better equipped to handle damage without always using long CDs or CDs at all, while Rogues need Vanish to escape damage - ever hear the lolvanish complaints?

[samthefish]

IMO, the rogue is and will still be useful in raids.
Assa => +3% all crit
Combat => +4% physical dmg
And THAT TRICKS OF THE TRADE! Best misdirect ever. How can you say a rogue isn't useful when he have a misdirect that can be converted to a DPS buff? Even better if he have the glyph of TotT.

[ThatOneDude]

IMO, the rogue is and will still be useful in raids.
Assa => +3% all crit
Combat => +4% physical dmg
And THAT TRICKS OF THE TRADE! Best misdirect ever. How can you say a rogue isn't useful when he have a misdirect that can be converted to a DPS buff? Even better if he have the glyph of TotT.

For PVE every Assassination Rogue will have it but no other spec will because they sacrifice too much personal DPS for someone else. Though if used correctly with another Rogue, it could bring a DPS increase overall to even your own personal DPS but most people don't care and is better on certain fights than others.

[Djspw]

The thing is not movement etc.... was the interupt they receive... why is the question ... Im not gelous or smth but certain classes have certain abilities and THEY SAID : We dont want to give certain abilities to all the classes ... Do I have immunity to fear ? or berserk ? or escape from snare and a shadowstep skill ability ?

[ThatOneDude]

The thing is not movement etc.... was the interupt they receive... why is the question ... Im not gelous or smth but certain classes have certain abilities and THEY SAID : We dont want to give certain abilities to all the classes ... Do I have immunity to fear ? or berserk ? or escape from snare and a shadowstep skill ability ?

No one said that Skullbash was going to remove snares. So it would mean the Druid would have to shift in and out of forms taking 3 seconds from GCDs to cast it and interrupt. You may not be referring to Skullbash as a snare breaker but just incase you or anyone else thinks so, it's not so easily done while snared.

You are also seriously overestimating it's usefulness. It will be used to finish someone off, stop a threatening cast, and for switches. It's on a 1min CD so it's not like it gives Ferals alot control but rather a situational ability that allows them to DO something and be a threat in finishing a caster off. The only thing that bothers me though is the range. Ferals get 2 Rogues CDs in 1 and that definitely sucks for Rogues, especially when that's just more mobility given to a spec that doesn't need it as badly imo. 2 Charges QQ.

[Djspw]

It comes with 10 seconds cldw .... srsly read the talents ... skullbash comes with another talent that reduces the cldw by 25/50 seconds... omg ... and it acts like a charge again you are wrong